24 votes

UK Parliament gives final backing to Withdrawal Agreement bill, UK is due to leave EU on January 31 with 11-month transition period

33 comments

  1. [15]
    Diet_Coke
    Link
    Curious how UK Tilderinos feel about this. Across the pond, I got a sense that a lot of folks were just tired of dealing with it, hearing about it, and so for some this vote was a way to just get...

    Curious how UK Tilderinos feel about this. Across the pond, I got a sense that a lot of folks were just tired of dealing with it, hearing about it, and so for some this vote was a way to just get it over with. Are you feeling relief? Anxiety? Something else?

    15 votes
    1. Shneebs
      Link Parent
      I'm just fucked off... All it looks like they've done is push through the same shit they had spent weeks and months bickering over. I'm done with it, the country is run by scum who don't know what...

      I'm just fucked off... All it looks like they've done is push through the same shit they had spent weeks and months bickering over.

      I'm done with it, the country is run by scum who don't know what an actual days work is like.

      This is something I put together - https://i.imgur.com/3AhpgUC.png

      This just shows how fucking out of touch they are. I understand it is set by the IPSA, but who are these?

      Looking at page 9 of their annual report (http://www.theipsa.org.uk/media/184891/annual-report-and-accounts-2017-2018.pdf) it looks like a load of fluff, but also, from a quick CTRL+F through the document I can't see them ever state a reason for a pay increase.

      Looking through the previous ones I also can't see any justification for increasing MP wages when the general population is seeing their own decrease. I don't believe they should ever lose money, but they should have retained the same spending power and not had an increase in spending power when the people they're representing are losing it.

      They take the general public for a ride, and they eat it all up. I stood in the voting booth this general election and hated every. single. person. There is no one that truly represents what I stand for, and I don't understand why everyone goes along with these people that clearly don't have your interests at heart.

      I honestly am just fed up with the human race and life tbh. I'm just going to turn to drugs, at least that makes me forget about the downward spiral the human race seems to be taking.

      17 votes
    2. [5]
      sron
      Link Parent
      I actually didn't see this until now as the news has been dominated by Iran, the royal family and Northern Ireland. We can't do anything about it except hope it'll be ok. We had a referendum won...

      I actually didn't see this until now as the news has been dominated by Iran, the royal family and Northern Ireland.

      We can't do anything about it except hope it'll be ok. We had a referendum won by a tiny margin decided by lies, data harvesting and ad microtargeting which people either used as a protest vote against the government or had no idea what they were voting for at all, or voted to leave purely out of racism.

      The media here are very pro-Brexit, and people don't bother to fact check what they see. Mistruths spread faster than the truth. The government who just gained effectively 100% control of parliament won with "only" 45% of votes so they obviously have no interest in making the system more representative. Parties that would keep remain on the table won more votes than those that would't but it's still happening anyway.

      And somehow this party keep winning despite being fundamentally evil. These come to mind https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures and https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/09/21/the-dwp-has-been-forced-to-admit-people-are-dying-under-universal-credit-2/ / https://welfareweekly.com/dwp-forced-to-admit-more-than-111000-benefit-deaths/

      Sorry that's a bit of a rant but it's all a bit shit and looking like it's going to keep being shit. You might want to check out r/unitedkingdom, it's not representative of national opinion, a bit of an echo chamber and a depressing place to be but a good place to start if you're unfamiliar with uk politics

      16 votes
      1. [4]
        KapteinB
        Link Parent
        What's going on there? I can't recall seeing anything about Northern Ireland in the Norwegian news lately.

        and Northern Ireland

        What's going on there? I can't recall seeing anything about Northern Ireland in the Norwegian news lately.

        2 votes
        1. Greg
          Link Parent
          I don't think we have anything concrete, but most signs point towards a North Sea border, leaving Northern Ireland arguably more unified with the EU than with the rest of the UK. As these things...

          I don't think we have anything concrete, but most signs point towards a North Sea border, leaving Northern Ireland arguably more unified with the EU than with the rest of the UK.

          As these things go, given the insane world we seem to be living in right now, it seems to me like a less bad option than any of the alternatives.

          10 votes
        2. [2]
          sron
          Link Parent
          Here https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/11/northern-ireland-assembly-reopens-three-years-after-collapse It isn’t that relevant internationally so you won’t have heard of it, I’m not...
          4 votes
    3. [5]
      mat
      Link Parent
      I hate it. I feel physically sick just thinking about it. Part of me is being torn away. I've always considered myself European first and British second and now that's gone. February 1st I'll look...

      I hate it. I feel physically sick just thinking about it. Part of me is being torn away. I've always considered myself European first and British second and now that's gone. February 1st I'll look out my window and a view which previously extended to the Gulf of Finland will now stop dead 30 miles away. When that blue-starred flag goes up, my flag, I can no longer stand under it with my mainland cousins. I am bereft, left alone on a tiny, increasingly inconsequential island half-filled with xenophobes, bigots, idiots. And for what, blue passports? What do these people gain from doing this to me? The bastards only lose, although they don't know it yet, but I lose far more than they do.

      It's hard to describe how much I hate half the populace of the country I live in. I walk down the street and half the faces I see are people so fundamentally at odds with the things I believe in and find important, people prepared to hurt me so much because they were too stupid or lazy or selfish to bother understanding what the EU does and why it's so good for everyone in it.

      Many of my friends have already left the country, I can't afford to no matter how much I might want to. It's sickening.

      15 votes
      1. [4]
        Five
        Link Parent
        Just out of curiosity what country was you born in ?

        Just out of curiosity what country was you born in ?

        1. [3]
          mat
          Link Parent
          The UK. Specifically England. Though if Scotland becomes independent I will likely qualify for a Scottish passport.

          The UK. Specifically England. Though if Scotland becomes independent I will likely qualify for a Scottish passport.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            Five
            Link Parent
            Scotland becoming independent seems very unlikely when the last Scottish independent vote happened I thought it seemed possible but not so much now

            Scotland becoming independent seems very unlikely when the last Scottish independent vote happened I thought it seemed possible but not so much now

            2 votes
            1. mat
              Link Parent
              Yeah, polling is currently around 45% for independence if I remember rightly - around what it was when the previous referendum happened. We'll see what happens when the actual EU split happens and...

              Yeah, polling is currently around 45% for independence if I remember rightly - around what it was when the previous referendum happened. We'll see what happens when the actual EU split happens and in the months/years after. Scotland stands to lose out quite hard compared to some other parts of the UK so I wouldn't be surprised if that changes a few minds. Also the SNP will definitely take their recent electoral landslide as a mandate for independence even though everyone I know who voted for them only did so because it was them or the Tories and that's no kind of choice.

              7 votes
    4. [3]
      minimaltyp0s
      Link Parent
      I decided after the last election result to stop trying to fight battles on other people's behalf. My family are unlikely to be badly impacted by it, although we will be negatively impacted in...

      I decided after the last election result to stop trying to fight battles on other people's behalf.

      My family are unlikely to be badly impacted by it, although we will be negatively impacted in more general ways. The people who will be badly hit by it seem to be the people most avidly in favour of it.

      I'm absolutely tired of the arguments. Because they are just that - arguments. There's no debate. There's no prospect of consensus; this has become like football or religion. "I want my team to win because it's my team" is absolutely sufficient. To this day I have not heard a cogent position on the actual benefits we'll see by leaving - all we have are proven lies, ambiguous slogans, and unproven fantasies.

      What's certain is, because of the election result, the poorest in society will be hit very badly by both the government's policies and Brexit. But they knew best. And so, sadly, "I'll be alright, Jack" is the disappointing holding position I've been ground down into.

      15 votes
      1. [2]
        vivaria
        Link Parent
        If someone is misled by misinformation campaigns, are they deserving of scorn? Are the people who orchestrated the misinformation campaign deserving of scorn? A mix of both? Is it worth taking...

        The people who will be badly hit by it seem to be the people most avidly in favour of it.
        [...]
        But they knew best.

        If someone is misled by misinformation campaigns, are they deserving of scorn? Are the people who orchestrated the misinformation campaign deserving of scorn? A mix of both?

        Is it worth taking into account the circumstances that could make it more likely for someone to believe an easy solution without doing due diligence? (e.g. stress/poor health, a lack of time/energy) If someone is put into a vulnerable place by the systems they live in, should the focus be placed on the person or the systems?

        I like this movie called "I, Daniel Blake". I think it illustrates this a lot clearer than I could. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5168192/

        7 votes
        1. minimaltyp0s
          Link Parent
          I accept all of what you said. What probably came across as scorn was intended more as defeated apathetic impotent rage. It's well known that there were lies. Knowing this didn't change minds....

          I accept all of what you said.

          What probably came across as scorn was intended more as defeated apathetic impotent rage.

          It's well known that there were lies. Knowing this didn't change minds.
          It's well known that there were rich puppet masters bankrolling it. Knowing this didn't change minds.
          It's well known that there was foul play at more or less all levels throughout the whole thing. Didn't matter.

          It almost became a badge of pride that the known facts were being rejected because of the loftier goal of 'getting Brexit done'. The end was Brexit. The means was irrelevant.

          When you're constantly arguing against this kind of tribal thinking, and in a media culture where the stupid talking heads get close to ALL of the air time, and there's a dismissive soundbite for EVERY angle, you just kind of withdraw.

          Defeated apathetic impotent rage.

          12 votes
  2. [2]
    MimicSquid
    Link
    Oof. Well, now to see what becomes of Scotland and Northern Ireland in this situation.

    Oof. Well, now to see what becomes of Scotland and Northern Ireland in this situation.

    14 votes
  3. [12]
    FishFingus
    (edited )
    Link
    Whenever Brexit (a stupid portmanteau that actually depresses me to type) comes up, I think to myself: "If only I'd enjoyed school, I might've gotten good enough grades to move to someplace like...

    Whenever Brexit (a stupid portmanteau that actually depresses me to type) comes up, I think to myself: "If only I'd enjoyed school, I might've gotten good enough grades to move to someplace like Canada years ago." :(

    I can't really bring myself to think about how much more difficult living in the UK is going to get over the next decade. I only just started feeling more positive recently.

    11 votes
    1. minimaltyp0s
      Link Parent
      We considered emigrating to Canada or Australia a few years back, but never ended up going through with it. I am regret.

      We considered emigrating to Canada or Australia a few years back, but never ended up going through with it.

      I am regret.

      2 votes
    2. [10]
      KapteinB
      Link Parent
      How is it going to change?

      how much more difficult living in the UK is going to get over the next decade

      How is it going to change?

      2 votes
      1. [3]
        FishFingus
        Link Parent
        I expect that employment and health services will be cut, and there will be increasing hostility toward the English in Scotland. At least up here we're not hammered by the same student loans,...

        I expect that employment and health services will be cut, and there will be increasing hostility toward the English in Scotland. At least up here we're not hammered by the same student loans, though. I'll be keeping up with my friend down in London to see how they're being affected.

        5 votes
        1. Five
          Link Parent
          So basically no change Scottish hate the English

          So basically no change Scottish hate the English

          1 vote
        2. KapteinB
          Link Parent
          As a result of the UK leaving the EU? Maybe a dumb question, but: Why?

          I expect that employment and health services will be cut

          As a result of the UK leaving the EU? Maybe a dumb question, but: Why?

          1 vote
      2. [6]
        Kuromantis
        Link Parent
        This map seems like a good start to answer your question.
        1 vote
        1. [5]
          KapteinB
          Link Parent
          Income is going to fall because of the UK leaving the EU? Household income I assume? Probably a dumb question, but as I asked the other person: Why?

          Income is going to fall because of the UK leaving the EU? Household income I assume? Probably a dumb question, but as I asked the other person: Why?

          1 vote
          1. [4]
            Kuromantis
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Trade barriers get higher, less companies inside the UK pay more for the same products or bring less products to keep costs the same or raise prices for those products, less companies inside the...

            Trade barriers get higher, less companies inside the UK pay more for the same products or bring less products to keep costs the same or raise prices for those products, less companies inside the EU trade with the UK further raising product prices meaning less people pay for those products. There was no plan to replace the EU with some other trading partner(s) to make up for what the EU traded with them (I think, I have no knowledge of UK politics) so we (The UK and EU) only lose. The only people who win are UK companies that have less competition and the people who still work in factories/farms because then the UK will be forced to take products from UK factories/farms that give them (many conservative voters) their jobs (because, rudeness warning: switching jobs is totally a new experience that people don't suffer through regularly.)

            3 votes
            1. [3]
              KapteinB
              Link Parent
              OK, so it's not that income will fall (as the map says), but that prices will increase? That makes more sense I guess.

              OK, so it's not that income will fall (as the map says), but that prices will increase? That makes more sense I guess.

              1. [2]
                Kuromantis
                Link Parent
                Yeah, and because of that people will spend less, which will make companies less money and then will employ less people and pay those people less and make people have less money too.

                Yeah, and because of that people will spend less, which will make companies less money and then will employ less people and pay those people less and make people have less money too.

                2 votes
                1. KapteinB
                  Link Parent
                  Won't they spend the same, but get less stuff for their money?

                  people will spend less

                  Won't they spend the same, but get less stuff for their money?

  4. Eric_the_Cerise
    Link
    For the record, I'm an American who moved to the EU after Trump was elected. Everyone's circumstances are different, and I'm not saying it's easy ... but in hindsight, it wasn't nearly as hard as...

    For the record, I'm an American who moved to the EU after Trump was elected.

    Everyone's circumstances are different, and I'm not saying it's easy ... but in hindsight, it wasn't nearly as hard as it seemed like it would be.

    5 votes
  5. [2]
    Eric_the_Cerise
    Link
    UKians unhappy with Brexit ... isn't this the perfect time to move to any-damn-where in the EU besides the UK? Or doesn't it work that way?

    UKians unhappy with Brexit ... isn't this the perfect time to move to any-damn-where in the EU besides the UK?

    Or doesn't it work that way?

    1. DanBC
      Link Parent
      We can more there now. We have no idea if we'll be allowed to stay there after Brexit. In theory any agreement the UK makes with EU will include freedom of movement, because that's been a pretty...

      We can more there now. We have no idea if we'll be allowed to stay there after Brexit.

      In theory any agreement the UK makes with EU will include freedom of movement, because that's been a pretty clear and hard line that EU has always taken. And if it doesn't there's likely to be some kind of protections around people who have moved from the rest of EU to UK, or from UK to other parts of EU. At the moment those are nebulous, and most people are hesitant to uproot their lives when things are so uncertain. Especially when the UK government is behaving so brutally towards EU migrants.

      7 votes
  6. Kuromantis
    Link
    Welp, guess it's finally done :/

    Welp, guess it's finally done :/