14 votes

Joe Rogan Experience #1439 - Michael Osterholm (expert in infectious disease epidemiology)

29 comments

  1. [6]
    dubteedub
    Link
    If you are like me have less than zero interest in watching Joe Rogan or don't want to spend an hour and a half listening to a podcast, here are a few recent interviews with Dr. Michael Osterholm,...

    If you are like me have less than zero interest in watching Joe Rogan or don't want to spend an hour and a half listening to a podcast, here are a few recent interviews with Dr. Michael Osterholm, Director of the University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Diseases.

    OSTERHOLM: In short, the CDC had a problem with Plan A, in other words making a coronavirus test available for the US. And nobody at CDC had a Plan B, C, or D. This was a real failure.

    What I think frustrated health professionals is that we knew we likely had widespread transmission ongoing. Unfortunately, this lack of testing reinforced the fantasy that we somehow had stopped transmission of the virus from coming into this country. What I have said many times over the past six weeks is all we really did was fix three of the five screen doors in our submarine. In fact, we knew that we had cases coming into the States despite the fact that restrictions on flying to or from China and airport temperature screening may have slowed down the rate of new infections. Containment of this virus and preventing it from getting into the US was never possible, despite what some government leaders proclaimed.

    Look at the situation in Seattle. There was a case that was detected in January when upon return from China an individual became ill. This person was put in isolation, but not before he had been in the community. Nonetheless our response to this case this largely considered a great success in terms of stopping ongoing transmission. As we now know, at least one of the patients who was tested in Seattle, another individual six weeks later, was infected with the same strain. It's likely that original virus introduction into the Seattle area did occur with this January case, meaning that there had to be at least six or seven generations of transmission between the time that the individual first arrived in the United States from China back in January and this new case. So, we've had ongoing transmission in this country for weeks.

    The U.S. is not prepared for what is coming as COVID-19 spreads rapidly across the country, public health and infectious disease specialist Michael Osterholm told CNBC on Tuesday.

    The virus has surpassed the containment stage, he said, and the U.S. government is not responding appropriately for the magnitude of spread the country will likely see.

    “Right now we’re approaching this like it’s the Washington, D.C., blizzard — for a couple days we’re shut down,” the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota said in a “Squawk Box” interview. “This is actually a coronavirus winter and we’re in the first week.”

    "Just breathing the air near someone who's infected makes this challenging," Osterholm said. "It does spread through the air and so, even if you are more than 6 feet away from someone, the virus is very contagious."

    Based on transmission trends in China, the virus could infect 20-60% of the U.S. population over the next 6-12 months, Osterholm said. The flu's infection rate, he says, pales in comparison with what coronavirus could do in the long term.

    "Today, people will say, 'Well, the flu kills a lot of people,' but by the time this one is done, it is going to dwarf the flu situation," Osterholm said.

    18 votes
    1. [5]
      Rainier
      Link Parent
      just wondering, what are your problems with joe rogan? he seems alright to me, doesn't seem to have many biases and pretty much gives every guest a fair platform.

      just wondering, what are your problems with joe rogan? he seems alright to me, doesn't seem to have many biases and pretty much gives every guest a fair platform.

      4 votes
      1. [3]
        dubteedub
        Link Parent
        There are a lot of issues that I have with Joe Rogan. His largest one is his desire to constantly platform far-right white nationalists, conspiracy theorists, and so-called dark enlightenment...

        There are a lot of issues that I have with Joe Rogan. His largest one is his desire to constantly platform far-right white nationalists, conspiracy theorists, and so-called dark enlightenment folks like Alex Jones, Milo Yianopolous, Sargon of Akkad, Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, Gavin McInnes, Steven Crowder, and Jordan Peterson. He does not just give these folks a "fair platform," but let's them spread their propaganda uncritically to his audience of millions of people. He let Alex Jones rant on his podcast for five hours straight.

        Due to his constant platforming of these people Joe Rogan is a first stop for many on the YouTube Far-Right Radicalization Pipeline.

        Joe also has a huge issue with racism. He is referred to a black neighborhood at one point as "Planet of the Apes." Here is a compilation of Joe Rogan saying the n-word on his show, something he does constantly because he thinks that to do so is some SJW nonsense.

        https://twitter.com/wondermann5/status/1220727490710245376

        Joe Rogan is a Seth Rich DNC Hitman conspiracy theorist, something the extremely far-right Daily Caller uses to spread their propaganda.

        https://twitter.com/joanwalsh/status/1220755563228934145

        Joe Rogan is a Obama Birther Conspiracy Theorist (again tying back to his issue with racism...)

        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPJM_zdX4AYO-Q8?format=jpg&name=medium

        And that is all without getting into his huge issues with trans people who he has a history of misgendering. Joe is also against puberty blockers for children, which is massively dangerous.

        https://www.advocate.com/election/2020/1/24/bernie-sanders-blasted-touting-support-transphobe-joe-rogan

        13 votes
        1. [2]
          Rainier
          Link Parent
          to each their own i guess, i could see how some of that might be bothersome to people. if i dont think i like the guest i just wont listen. i dont think he should be "canceled" though, i enjoy his...

          to each their own i guess, i could see how some of that might be bothersome to people. if i dont think i like the guest i just wont listen. i dont think he should be "canceled" though, i enjoy his show especially when scientists or experts come to discuss cool shit like cleaning the ocean or talk about fungus or something.

          4 votes
          1. pvik
            Link Parent
            I guess as someone who has a platform which is consumed by a few million people, Joe Rogan needs to understand what his action of providing a platform for white-supremacists and other such actors...

            I guess as someone who has a platform which is consumed by a few million people, Joe Rogan needs to understand what his action of providing a platform for white-supremacists and other such actors to spread their propaganda is doing.

            You may take what he (and the guests on his show) with a grain of salt, and consider things a little more critically; but most people consuming his show may not.

            I think this is a good video from PhilosophyTube which talks about the downsides of providing a platform for bad-faith actors to spread their propaganda.

            If you don't want to spend the time watching that video the closing synopsis of it is:

            Traditionally in philosophy it is considered good to interpret what somebody is saying as possibly true, but when it comes to propaganda, that instinct won't serve you well; and of course the tricky thing about propaganda is that it doesn't come with a warning label. In general if you're hearing somebody speak or if you're offering a platform for someone to speak, don't just think of their content of their opinions in the abstract; which they are of course entitled to. Think about what specific acts of speech are doing

            9 votes
      2. tildez
        Link Parent
        I don't listen to him and don't have a particularly strong opinion, but I've heard other people don't agree with him giving every guest a fair platform. Some bad faith actors like Ben Shapiro,...

        I don't listen to him and don't have a particularly strong opinion, but I've heard other people don't agree with him giving every guest a fair platform.

        Some bad faith actors like Ben Shapiro, Milo, Alex Jones, etc. probably shouldn't be able to use his wildly popular show to promote their bullshit.

        6 votes
  2. [4]
    seizethegoddamngap
    Link
    My transcription of the most distressing part of the interview, IMO. Osterholm is reading an e-mail he received from a physician in Milan.

    My transcription of the most distressing part of the interview, IMO. Osterholm is reading an e-mail he received from a physician in Milan.

    "I just got a very disturbing message from a cardiologist at one of Milan's largest hospitals. They are deciding who they have to let die. They aren't screening the staff anymore because they need all hands on deck, and they have a very small area of the hospital dedicated to non-COVID patients, where they still screen doctors. Everyone else is dedicated to COVID patients. Even if they are positive but they don't have a cough or fever, they have to work..."

    13 votes
  3. [5]
    tomf
    Link
    This is proving to be an interesting, down-to-earth interview re: coronavirus that would be worth a listen to get some of the false information cleared up.

    Michael Osterholm is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology. He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota. Look for his book "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Deadly Germs" for more info. https://amzn.to/2IAzeLe

    This is proving to be an interesting, down-to-earth interview re: coronavirus that would be worth a listen to get some of the false information cleared up.

    6 votes
    1. [4]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      Hmm, I don't suppose there are ever transcripts for these interviews? You've got me a little curious, but I really do not want to watch a talking-head interview.

      Hmm, I don't suppose there are ever transcripts for these interviews? You've got me a little curious, but I really do not want to watch a talking-head interview.

      3 votes
      1. cfabbro
        Link Parent
        https://www.podgist.com/joe-rogan-experience/index.html seems to have transcripts of most of the recent episodes, but it may be a few more days before they release this one.

        https://www.podgist.com/joe-rogan-experience/index.html seems to have transcripts of most of the recent episodes, but it may be a few more days before they release this one.

        6 votes
      2. [2]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Apparently it was popular/pertinent enough that it got bumped up in priority over the others before it: https://www.podgist.com/joe-rogan-experience/1439-michael-osterholm/index.html However it...

        Apparently it was popular/pertinent enough that it got bumped up in priority over the others before it:
        https://www.podgist.com/joe-rogan-experience/1439-michael-osterholm/index.html

        However it should be noted that there are currently still quite a few transcription errors in it, though thankfully since you can also listen along to the various parts by clicking the timstamps next to the text that it isn't too hard to follow.

        2 votes
        1. skybrian
          Link Parent
          Yes, it's very rough, but thanks!

          Yes, it's very rough, but thanks!

          1 vote
  4. Icarus
    Link
    I learned a lot about COVID-19 from this episode. It's unfortunate that the show isnt on Spotify or I would probably listen to it again. He asked all the questions that I would want asked and it...

    I learned a lot about COVID-19 from this episode. It's unfortunate that the show isnt on Spotify or I would probably listen to it again. He asked all the questions that I would want asked and it cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had about the virus.

    +1 for posting. If anyone has any other recommended episodes, I would be game for adding them to a future listen queue.

    5 votes
  5. [13]
    JXM
    Link
    Based on people Joe Rogan has had on his podcast in the past, this would make me trust someone less. He’s spread plenty of false and misleading information in the past.

    Based on people Joe Rogan has had on his podcast in the past, this would make me trust someone less. He’s spread plenty of false and misleading information in the past.

    8 votes
    1. [4]
      Autoxidation
      Link Parent
      He seems to have a pretty solid wikipedia page, can't find any evidence of him peddling bad information in the past.

      He seems to have a pretty solid wikipedia page, can't find any evidence of him peddling bad information in the past.

      10 votes
      1. [3]
        JXM
        Link Parent
        I was referring to Joe Rogan, not the doctor.

        I was referring to Joe Rogan, not the doctor.

        7 votes
        1. JakeTheDog
          Link Parent
          Well then, I wouldn't recommend taking medical advice from Joe anyways. The doctor on the other hand...

          Well then, I wouldn't recommend taking medical advice from Joe anyways. The doctor on the other hand...

          6 votes
        2. Autoxidation
          Link Parent
          Right, I was referring to the doctor when you said: "this would make me trust someone less." The doctor has a good reputation. While it's definitely advisable to be skeptical of everyone Joe...

          Right, I was referring to the doctor when you said: "this would make me trust someone less."

          The doctor has a good reputation. While it's definitely advisable to be skeptical of everyone Joe brings to the show, it doesn't make every person bad.

          3 votes
    2. tomf
      Link Parent
      I'm not a big JRE fan or anything -- but a friend is. I got about halfway through and looked him up on wikipedia and he seems legit. He seems really level headed and realistic about it all, which...

      I'm not a big JRE fan or anything -- but a friend is. I got about halfway through and looked him up on wikipedia and he seems legit. He seems really level headed and realistic about it all, which is both terrifying and comforting. :)

      5 votes
    3. [7]
      weystrom
      Link Parent
      He's had lots of people on the podcast, ranging from neuroscientists to conspiracy theorists, that's his thing. One has to be open-minded to have such a wide variety of guests, I feel like it's...

      He's had lots of people on the podcast, ranging from neuroscientists to conspiracy theorists, that's his thing. One has to be open-minded to have such a wide variety of guests, I feel like it's unfair to dismiss him based on that. Alex Jones episodes are actually pretty entertaining to watch, it's a good laugh if you approach it as comedy.

      He's certainly a dude-bro-DMT-deer-meat kind of guy, but the conversations are great and the long format of the show allows for a lot of nuance in them. You should give it a go.

      11 votes
      1. [6]
        JXM
        Link Parent
        I get what you’re saying, but by letting those more fringe guests on the same show as a world renowned doctor, it helps legitimize them. That’s what I don’t like.

        I get what you’re saying, but by letting those more fringe guests on the same show as a world renowned doctor, it helps legitimize them. That’s what I don’t like.

        11 votes
        1. [5]
          somewaffles
          Link Parent
          I'm not super into the JRE, but I see this argument all the time. Do you care to elaborate on how you think it legitimizes them? I've watched the Alex Jones and Ben Shapiro episodes and they both...

          I'm not super into the JRE, but I see this argument all the time. Do you care to elaborate on how you think it legitimizes them? I've watched the Alex Jones and Ben Shapiro episodes and they both came off as nothing but idiotic their entire interviews.

          6 votes
          1. [4]
            JXM
            Link Parent
            It gives those fringe guests more credibility if the first time you see them they are on a popular show with legitimate guests. If you see Ben Shapiro on the same show as a well respected doctor,...

            It gives those fringe guests more credibility if the first time you see them they are on a popular show with legitimate guests.

            If you see Ben Shapiro on the same show as a well respected doctor, you might think he's more well respected than he is.

            12 votes
            1. [3]
              somewaffles
              Link Parent
              Isn't that kind of not giving enough credit to people? Like I mentioned, watching those episodes it's pretty clear how illegitimate Jones and Shapiro are. I'd also wager you're aware who those...

              Isn't that kind of not giving enough credit to people? Like I mentioned, watching those episodes it's pretty clear how illegitimate Jones and Shapiro are. I'd also wager you're aware who those people are if you are listening to a high profile podcast like JRE.

              6 votes
              1. Deimos
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                Just as a personal anecdote, one of my friends was really huge into JRE and some of the associated stuff. He was a smart guy overall, but he would still give a lot of credence to practically...

                Just as a personal anecdote, one of my friends was really huge into JRE and some of the associated stuff. He was a smart guy overall, but he would still give a lot of credence to practically anyone that was on the show. It was one of his main ways of getting introduced to new topics or people. He ended up getting really into Jordan Peterson because of it, and would even say things like, "yeah, some of the stuff Alex Jones says is pretty crazy, but he's obviously onto something with some of it."

                He probably would have never had any exposure to some of these people otherwise, and had some inherent trust of them based on Joe Rogan putting them on his show.

                10 votes
              2. JXM
                Link Parent
                Given just how many people are easily fooled by false news stories on Facebook and the obvious, provably false statements coming from Trump, I've stopped giving people credit for having common sense.

                Given just how many people are easily fooled by false news stories on Facebook and the obvious, provably false statements coming from Trump, I've stopped giving people credit for having common sense.

                8 votes