Posting the comments section of a reddit post because the top comment is a link to the infraction that caused this response. I don't have too many thoughts on this because I feel like its pretty...
Posting the comments section of a reddit post because the top comment is a link to the infraction that caused this response. I don't have too many thoughts on this because I feel like its pretty cut and dry IMO.
Tom Wilson is an absolute monster, I'd honestly be fine with the dude getting jail time for assault the way he's played over the years.
MASSIVE statement from the NYR to directly call out the head of player safety and the NHL.
Fuck Tom Wilson and fuck Parros. Absolute disgraces.
I agree with this! My main hobby before the pandemic was boxing! There are lots of things that should be allowed in sports that shouldn't be allowed in general society. I also don't strongly think...
but there is a certain agreement when you step on the ice that certain specific "rules of society" are put on hold within the bounds of that ice sheet otherwise the game as it is designed can't be played.
I agree with this! My main hobby before the pandemic was boxing! There are lots of things that should be allowed in sports that shouldn't be allowed in general society. I also don't strongly think he needs to be charged with assault, but more if the charge was brought I would say it has been earned and support conviction. The way Tom Wilson plays, IMO, goes way beyond the sports handshake. Not only is this his 6th (!!!) suspension in his career, that's only what made it to DoPS. Things like punching players in the back of the head? No, that is not part of the handshake when you're playing sports. Purposefully aiming of a player's head on checks? Nope. Laughing at a player while he lays on the ice after you injure him? Nope.
Wilson has been suspended for 30 games in his career. It should have been 36 if his one suspension didn't get lowered from 20 games to 14. Honestly if DoPS doesn't step in soon I really have a hard time seeing how Wilson goes much further in his career without someone trying to end him.
Horrifying act of violence is a bit much IMO. I agree he needs to be suspended but when I originally read this I was expecting a McSorley type incident.
Horrifying act of violence is a bit much IMO. I agree he needs to be suspended but when I originally read this I was expecting a McSorley type incident.
(1) I disagree with that, I would definitely call what he did a horrifying act of violence, especially in the context of a sport. Any time you are attempting to slam a helmetless player's head...
(1) I disagree with that, I would definitely call what he did a horrifying act of violence, especially in the context of a sport. Any time you are attempting to slam a helmetless player's head against the ice is uhhhh super fucked up IMO.
(2) I'd be more inclined to agree with you if Wilson wasn't a massive piece of shit with a long history of doing shit like this.
Yea I'm no fan of goons like him either and think he deserves more than a slap on the wrist but thinking he deserves jailtime seems absurd to me. Watching at live speed I don't think he was...
Yea I'm no fan of goons like him either and think he deserves more than a slap on the wrist but thinking he deserves jailtime seems absurd to me. Watching at live speed I don't think he was intending to put his head into the ice.
The McSorely one feels worse because it looked completely unprovoked and was essentially a blindside move straight to the head, whereas what Wilson did looked like it could have been "regular"...
The McSorely one feels worse because it looked completely unprovoked and was essentially a blindside move straight to the head, whereas what Wilson did looked like it could have been "regular" roughhousing... until he pulled that move on Panarin.
In some ways, what Wilson did was worse. One could blame McSorely's hit on emotions in the moment leading to a bad decision, an act of violence that lasted all of one hit, but Wilson's was more conscious of a choice. To first choose to engage a player without a helmet like that, grab him by the hair, and pull down like that is about as willful as it gets. Wilson is a player with a long, long rap sheet of violence. He isn't someone who is unfamiliar with it to the point of not knowing what he's doing in a fight at all. He knew exactly what he was doing in every moment.
This is a player that actively chooses to do harm to other players, purposefully cause injury, and has no compunction about other people's safety. He is more than a goon, he is basically using hockey as an arena for bloodsport. Panarin is now out for the last few games due to the injuries sustained by what Wilson did to him. That the NHL and the DoPS has effectively chosen to not punish him sets a terrible precedent for the league as it effectively means that conscious acts of violence will only cost pocketchange.
Yea that's a good point. I guess the distinction to me is that if this was say Panarin taking Wilson to the ice in the exact same manner it wouldn't be a 'horrific act of violence'. I don't think...
Yea that's a good point. I guess the distinction to me is that if this was say Panarin taking Wilson to the ice in the exact same manner it wouldn't be a 'horrific act of violence'. I don't think context should really apply to such a label. However, it should definitely apply to the punishment process and the NHL deserves to be rebuked for the lack of action.
Well, we do have the benefit of seeing what Panarin would do in that situation because he did engage first. Here's the full video, with multiple angles. Panarin's choice of action was to hold and...
Panarin's choice of action was to hold and separate. No punches, no violence. He's much smaller than Wilson so he does jump on his back to pull him off, but then he holds. No punches thrown.
Look what Wilson does in response:
Tears off Panarin's helmet
Grabs Panarin by the hair from behind
Pulls down Panarin by the hair and slams him on the ice, headfirst
Punches Panarin in the head
When Panarin attempts to get up, Wilson body slams him down on the ice again
Panarin then stays down and grabs onto Wilson's skate
Wilson gets down on top of Panarin
Not once in this entire chain of events did Panarin strike anyone.
This is the real act of violence, I'd say more than the initial Buchnevich hits. We can see that Wilson wasn't just responding aggressively in a fight, this guy was actively seeking to cause harm. Again, Panarin is now out for the rest of the season because Tom Wilson purposefully chose to physically assault a much smaller, less protected player multiple times. This wasn't a 1:1 hockey fight, this was straight up escalation and violence.
What I meant was in an alternate universe where Panarin and Wilson switch roles for this scrum and it happens exactly as above we wouldn't be calling it a horrific act of violence. Its only the...
Well, we do have the benefit of seeing what Panarin would do in that situation because he did engage first.
What I meant was in an alternate universe where Panarin and Wilson switch roles for this scrum and it happens exactly as above we wouldn't be calling it a horrific act of violence. Its only the historical context of Wilson's actions that we are using to imply intent -- otherwise we'd be more likely to give the offending player the benefit of the doubt. Alternatively even if McSorely didn't have a goon history we could look at his slash and condemn it unequivocally.
I'm not sure that's true. Just earlier this season, Connor McDavid got in trouble for this. McDavid is not a known goon or problem player. He's been suspended before (2 games for an accidental bad...
I'm not sure that's true. Just earlier this season, Connor McDavid got a 10 game suspension in trouble for this. Originally he was only going to get the same punishment here but people raised enough of a fuss about it that DoPS eventually threw the book at him because that was a flagrant attack.
McDavid is not a known goon or problem player. He's been suspended before (2 games for an accidental bad check) but he hasn't ended anyone's career, or put any player out with injuries. He's not one to start fights and throw punches at people. This was highly unusual for him and surprised many, but people called a spade a spade when it happened. He did something violent and uncalled for, and people demanded a greater punishment for his action than he was initially served.
If Panarin for some reason came out lashing at other players and trying to cause harm and injury, people would call for a punishment just the same. They're doing that with Wilson but they're also referencing his long track record of causing harm to other players purposefully as well because this is not someone who has any inclination of self-improvement or betterment, but someone who will just get back out on the ice and seek to cause harm for the sake of it over and over. That it's not shocking behaviour from Wilson is the problem here.
EDIT: Updated thanks to @Loire, had some bad info.
My issue isn't with a hypothetical (and deserved) suspension its the language being used to describe the incident. I agree that if the roles were reversed Panarin should still be suspended also --...
My issue isn't with a hypothetical (and deserved) suspension its the language being used to describe the incident. I agree that if the roles were reversed Panarin should still be suspended also -- just we likely wouldn't describe it as a horrific act of violence. Act of violence -- sure. Horrific? I don't think I'd qualify it as horrific. I only mentioned McSorely because that's what immediately comes to mind when I think of horrific violence in hockey.
insert Larry David gif and Curb Your Enthusiasm music here What a gong show. Embarrassing and entertaining at the same time. I just hope the NHL really takes a hard look at DoPS and makes some big...
insert Larry David gif and Curb Your Enthusiasm music here
What a gong show. Embarrassing and entertaining at the same time. I just hope the NHL really takes a hard look at DoPS and makes some big changes because what we saw was basically open rebellion on ice.
Yeah from the perspective of someone who loves hockey fights it was an entertaining game. From the perspective of someone concerned about player safety last night was a nightmare.
Yeah from the perspective of someone who loves hockey fights it was an entertaining game. From the perspective of someone concerned about player safety last night was a nightmare.
:) I can't take any credit, this is certainly due to the NHL ESPN deal :P
The Rangers have been fined a quarter million dollars for their statements: source.
Lol they basically gave the same fine to the Rangers that they gave to Tom Wilson. Incredible.
Posting the comments section of a reddit post because the top comment is a link to the infraction that caused this response. I don't have too many thoughts on this because I feel like its pretty cut and dry IMO.
Tom Wilson is an absolute monster, I'd honestly be fine with the dude getting jail time for assault the way he's played over the years.
MASSIVE statement from the NYR to directly call out the head of player safety and the NHL.
Fuck Tom Wilson and fuck Parros. Absolute disgraces.
I agree with this! My main hobby before the pandemic was boxing! There are lots of things that should be allowed in sports that shouldn't be allowed in general society. I also don't strongly think he needs to be charged with assault, but more if the charge was brought I would say it has been earned and support conviction. The way Tom Wilson plays, IMO, goes way beyond the sports handshake. Not only is this his 6th (!!!) suspension in his career, that's only what made it to DoPS. Things like punching players in the back of the head? No, that is not part of the handshake when you're playing sports. Purposefully aiming of a player's head on checks? Nope. Laughing at a player while he lays on the ice after you injure him? Nope.
Wilson has been suspended for 30 games in his career. It should have been 36 if his one suspension didn't get lowered from 20 games to 14. Honestly if DoPS doesn't step in soon I really have a hard time seeing how Wilson goes much further in his career without someone trying to end him.
Horrifying act of violence is a bit much IMO. I agree he needs to be suspended but when I originally read this I was expecting a McSorley type incident.
(1) I disagree with that, I would definitely call what he did a horrifying act of violence, especially in the context of a sport. Any time you are attempting to slam a helmetless player's head against the ice is uhhhh super fucked up IMO.
(2) I'd be more inclined to agree with you if Wilson wasn't a massive piece of shit with a long history of doing shit like this.
Yea I'm no fan of goons like him either and think he deserves more than a slap on the wrist but thinking he deserves jailtime seems absurd to me. Watching at live speed I don't think he was intending to put his head into the ice.
The McSorely one feels worse because it looked completely unprovoked and was essentially a blindside move straight to the head, whereas what Wilson did looked like it could have been "regular" roughhousing... until he pulled that move on Panarin.
In some ways, what Wilson did was worse. One could blame McSorely's hit on emotions in the moment leading to a bad decision, an act of violence that lasted all of one hit, but Wilson's was more conscious of a choice. To first choose to engage a player without a helmet like that, grab him by the hair, and pull down like that is about as willful as it gets. Wilson is a player with a long, long rap sheet of violence. He isn't someone who is unfamiliar with it to the point of not knowing what he's doing in a fight at all. He knew exactly what he was doing in every moment.
This is a player that actively chooses to do harm to other players, purposefully cause injury, and has no compunction about other people's safety. He is more than a goon, he is basically using hockey as an arena for bloodsport. Panarin is now out for the last few games due to the injuries sustained by what Wilson did to him. That the NHL and the DoPS has effectively chosen to not punish him sets a terrible precedent for the league as it effectively means that conscious acts of violence will only cost pocketchange.
Yea that's a good point. I guess the distinction to me is that if this was say Panarin taking Wilson to the ice in the exact same manner it wouldn't be a 'horrific act of violence'. I don't think context should really apply to such a label. However, it should definitely apply to the punishment process and the NHL deserves to be rebuked for the lack of action.
Well, we do have the benefit of seeing what Panarin would do in that situation because he did engage first. Here's the full video, with multiple angles.
Panarin's choice of action was to hold and separate. No punches, no violence. He's much smaller than Wilson so he does jump on his back to pull him off, but then he holds. No punches thrown.
Look what Wilson does in response:
Not once in this entire chain of events did Panarin strike anyone.
This is the real act of violence, I'd say more than the initial Buchnevich hits. We can see that Wilson wasn't just responding aggressively in a fight, this guy was actively seeking to cause harm. Again, Panarin is now out for the rest of the season because Tom Wilson purposefully chose to physically assault a much smaller, less protected player multiple times. This wasn't a 1:1 hockey fight, this was straight up escalation and violence.
What I meant was in an alternate universe where Panarin and Wilson switch roles for this scrum and it happens exactly as above we wouldn't be calling it a horrific act of violence. Its only the historical context of Wilson's actions that we are using to imply intent -- otherwise we'd be more likely to give the offending player the benefit of the doubt. Alternatively even if McSorely didn't have a goon history we could look at his slash and condemn it unequivocally.
I'm not sure that's true. Just earlier this season, Connor McDavid got
a 10 game suspensionin trouble for this.Originally he was only going to get the same punishment here but people raised enough of a fuss about it that DoPS eventually threw the book at him because that was a flagrant attack.McDavid is not a known goon or problem player. He's been suspended before (2 games for an accidental bad check) but he hasn't ended anyone's career, or put any player out with injuries. He's not one to start fights and throw punches at people. This was highly unusual for him and surprised many, but people called a spade a spade when it happened. He did something violent and uncalled for, and people demanded a greater punishment for his action than he was initially served.
If Panarin for some reason came out lashing at other players and trying to cause harm and injury, people would call for a punishment just the same. They're doing that with Wilson but they're also referencing his long track record of causing harm to other players purposefully as well because this is not someone who has any inclination of self-improvement or betterment, but someone who will just get back out on the ice and seek to cause harm for the sake of it over and over. That it's not shocking behaviour from Wilson is the problem here.
EDIT: Updated thanks to @Loire, had some bad info.
Ahhh, I had heard about the hit and the fine, I assumed I had missed some update. Oops. Thanks for pointing that out.
My issue isn't with a hypothetical (and deserved) suspension its the language being used to describe the incident. I agree that if the roles were reversed Panarin should still be suspended also -- just we likely wouldn't describe it as a horrific act of violence. Act of violence -- sure. Horrific? I don't think I'd qualify it as horrific. I only mentioned McSorely because that's what immediately comes to mind when I think of horrific violence in hockey.
@streblo @Loire @TheJorro well, what happened last night certainly was a game of hockey.
insert Larry David gif and Curb Your Enthusiasm music here
What a gong show. Embarrassing and entertaining at the same time. I just hope the NHL really takes a hard look at DoPS and makes some big changes because what we saw was basically open rebellion on ice.
Yeah from the perspective of someone who loves hockey fights it was an entertaining game. From the perspective of someone concerned about player safety last night was a nightmare.