Extremely optimistic. Everyone's getting pissed off, climate change is about to deliver a record-breaking kick to our collective asses, and we're on the verge of medical and power and automation...
Extremely optimistic. Everyone's getting pissed off, climate change is about to deliver a record-breaking kick to our collective asses, and we're on the verge of medical and power and automation revolutions that'll pale the past into insignificance. It's a perfect storm. If you were trying to intentionally forge a civilization in a crucible I don't think you could manage to set it up better.
Will it be pleasant? Of course not - that's not how progress gets made. Will we come out the other side better off? That's usually what we do as a species. We are only at our best when things are at their worst.
It's very basic. The market drives everything. Time was, markets were a local phenomena. That information interconnectedness has fundamentally changed the market forever, and it's a global force...
It's very basic. The market drives everything. Time was, markets were a local phenomena. That information interconnectedness has fundamentally changed the market forever, and it's a global force now, more than ever. It's also a real-time reactive force that can respond globally in a matter of hours, and it was never, ever like that before the internet revolutionized communications. Disruptions in one country cause echoing disruptions in others. It's no longer isolated.
No matter what beliefs, politics, nations, religions, or other forces exist, the market will be satisfied. The trigger events you're looking for will come on their own with climate change. The increasing levels of economic damage that will strike randomly all over the world as climate changes will mount an increasing pressure on everyone, every government, every community, every individual, to take this seriously and do something about it.
So far this has been gradual and we haven't sustained anything truly catastrophic. That will change. If you're looking for a singular event that'll get things moving, we may or may not get such a disaster, we may or may not see it coming and be able to prepare for it. If it comes, though, such as a Cat 5 hurricane slamming into NYC, the multi-trillion dollar price tag and market disruptions that follow it will catalyze a response.
Looking at it another way, how often has the future looked good? Earlier 21st Century: Terrorism, an aggressive US invading and occupying countries, financial collapse. Second half of 20th...
Exemplary
Looking at it another way, how often has the future looked good?
Earlier 21st Century: Terrorism, an aggressive US invading and occupying countries, financial collapse. Second half of 20th Century: A world bitterly divided along ideology with thousands of nuclear weapons ready to be used at a moment's notice. First half of 20th Century: World wars, fascism, global economic collapse. 19th Century: Robber barons, devastating civil war in the US, colonialism, century of humiliation in China. Earlier: Columbus, Genghis Khan, plagues, religious wars. Even Earlier: Fall of Rome, fall of Han Dynasty, whatever the Sea Peoples were. Much Earlier: The ice age.
My point is we've come this far but there have always been good reasons to think the future would be terrible. Our problems now might seem uniquely bad, and in some ways they are, but in the context of human history it's not unprecedented to have to deal with a challenging and uncertain future. There are also many things that are definitely getting better. Social issues (e.g. LGBT rights and acceptance) shouldn't be ignored as unimportant and advances in medicine continually narrow the scope of human misery.
Our point in history might seem unique as one with impossible challenges, but I think it's the opposite: what makes us unique isn't our challenges but the fact that we thought for a while that we had escaped those challenges. We thought that the abject misery of the past was relegated to history books and that things would only get better. Instead we find ourselves facing an uncertain future like every other generation in history.
One of the greatest challenges here, I think, is to let that glimpse of a better future lead us to hope instead of hopelessness. We need to face our challenges and work towards that better future we thought we had rather than give in to hopelessness at the fact that it hasn't already arrived. This will only happen if we don't give up.
Hi. No. :D But hear me out. So you know how you'll do that thing where you're like "what do blind people see" so you cover one of your eyes and la voila you don't see anything? (Please – not just...
Exemplary
Hi.
No. :D
But hear me out.
So you know how you'll do that thing where you're like "what do blind people see" so you cover one of your eyes and la voila you don't see anything? (Please – not just me?)
That's kinda how I see things at the moment – and, in a way, how I see the past.
Regarding the future – it's not that it's dark. It's not that it's blackness. It's that you... just kinda can't see it.
You can tell there's something there. You've seen out of that eye your whole life (probably.) You know that there's stuff to look at, and maybe even something important that you really feel like you should be looking out for. But, alas, you've got a hand in the way so you're a bit stuck with one eye at the moment.
And oddly enough, looking back to the past is a bit like slightly cracking a finger and trying to watch a movie through that one eye – or read a book. You can make out shapes, sometimes a key component. But again, the bulk of it is just blur, miscellaneous colors, and a weird hazy beige. (The worst of colors.)
It feels like February 2018 had just passed recently. Events that happened some 2-4 years ago can feel like they could've happened just months ago; things that happened just months ago go the opposite direction.
I think that's the "brain fog" or "brain rot" that you'll hear associated with depression now and then.
But there's still a weird part about all this – you're sitting there with a hand on your eye. You want to see out of it. You need that eye. There's shit to look at, your arm's getting tired, your other eye is tired of picking up the slack, you're getting a little frustrated and annoyed, and you just want to drop your hand and like look at shit.
But you can't? And you want to. So you'll try to bring your hand down. And then next thing you know you're sat at your desk inadvertently slapping yourself because you keep pulling your hand off as it, as if elastic, tries to clasp back where it's found a home – regardless of your wishes. (I think this is ADHD.)
So what the hell did all that mean.
In short – it's not exactly a glib, defeatist, and hopeless perspective.
Regarding the future – I know it's there.
I can see myself at the new adult job being my (surprisingly) giddy, bubbly, social self and getting tea before work and making friends. (Dude I know right?)
I see a nice, well-furnished, well-kept apartment (with the noicest of mattresses in my bedroom), a not-insignificant but healthy amount of candles, books abound (most of which I haven't read yet – cheers, Amazon.)
I see hobbies – yoga, weightlifting, sculpting, painting, poetry, music, cooking classes, art museums.
I see vacations.
But it's like scrolling through a mental social feed. It's all pictures. They're nice pictures. Wholesome and relaxing in nature.
But I just cannot break that fourth wall and envision myself in those shoes, in those pictures, in that life.
And that's why we go to therapy.
Hope that somehow answered the question lmao. If not I'll take this down
Not really. I think climate change is going to keep eroding society and life in general will get worse. I am trying to hope I can find personal happiness despite this.
Not really. I think climate change is going to keep eroding society and life in general will get worse. I am trying to hope I can find personal happiness despite this.
I am very optimistic for both societal and personal spheres, which would have surprised me 4 years ago. For the vast majority of my life, I optimistically assumed that the future is a bleak death...
I am very optimistic for both societal and personal spheres, which would have surprised me 4 years ago. For the vast majority of my life, I optimistically assumed that the future is a bleak death by a thousand cuts. Now, I have a decent job that I don't hate, and I am working towards finding a job that I love. I am living in a decent place, and I am meeting new people.
Societally, we have never been more connected. I can chat with people in South Africa, I can play a video game with someone in Bulgaria, and then watch a stream from a Swede. The only reason that the world appears so divided is so that the status quo can be maintained, and our current despots can retain their grip on power and wealth. I am not claiming that many of these people are intentionally working towards disunity, obviously some are, but that the system they help construct and maintain pushes them towards it. Never before has there been a better chance for the world to be changed for the betterment of everyone.
I don't know if anyone will be successful, but I do have hope.
For my personal future i'm quite optimistic, since my career is doing quite well. For the planet in general i'm at a meh. The universe is indifferent, and so is climate change. It's not affecting...
For my personal future i'm quite optimistic, since my career is doing quite well.
For the planet in general i'm at a meh.
The universe is indifferent, and so is climate change.
It's not affecting daily life of everyone yet, so I doubt a lot of chance will happen if it could hurt profits.
In the end humanity will survive, 87% of humanity would die thanks to droughts lack of food caused by global warming etc. That would still leave about A billion people, assuming there's about 7.5 billion people.
It would be horrible a lot of death, but humanity would rebuild, and the quality of life of people would probably be higher. Since there's more resources per person.
So really short term future, I think it will be fine. A bit longer, would be tough to life through that. Far future should be fine again.
Climate change seems to be the biggest threat humanity is facing (barring some kind of mutually-assured-destruction nuclear war...or a new super-plague). There are a lot of smart people working on...
Climate change seems to be the biggest threat humanity is facing (barring some kind of mutually-assured-destruction nuclear war...or a new super-plague). There are a lot of smart people working on the problem in spite of the politicization of it. Either way, if we can't figure it out then the ensuing destruction of Earth would kind of put a damper on all the other ways humanity has progressed.
Beyond that, I'm pretty optimistic that my skin won't be melting off my face when I step outside any time soon.
In general, I can't help but be optimistic about the future. Certainly, things might look grim now but on the grander scale, Humans have a pretty good track record of improving things for...
In general, I can't help but be optimistic about the future. Certainly, things might look grim now but on the grander scale, Humans have a pretty good track record of improving things for themselves. It's hard to imagine what the future will hold but, unless an apocalypse occurs, I think in general the future will be better.
Joe Scott just came out with a video that speaks pretty deeply to this: Dear Person In The Year 2219... We're facing some big challenges. The world is changing rapidly and it's hard to keep up....
Joe Scott just came out with a video that speaks pretty deeply to this:
We're facing some big challenges. The world is changing rapidly and it's hard to keep up. But people are learning that you can't take things for granted and are stepping up in response. What we need right now is not the optimism or pessimism of thinking the future is destined to be one way or another, but the pragmatism that the future is what we make it. It's up to us to decide if we're willing to do what it takes to make it a good one.
not particularly. i don't think things are hopeless, but color me skeptical that we're going to see things trend for the better until well into this century, if they do at all. a combination of...
not particularly. i don't think things are hopeless, but color me skeptical that we're going to see things trend for the better until well into this century, if they do at all. a combination of international crises, growing political polarization, and stratification of world power is going to have things all fucked up, and there's no real telling where it's going to lead--all signs point to it culminating in a total disaster, though, one which we're not really equipped to deal with at this point and probably won't be able to adapt to in time to stop shit from hitting the fan. that said, i'm sure we'll avert the worst case scenario, and i'm sure that we'll eventually figure things out--it might just be that figuring things out at this point is a matter which seemingly involves condemning billions of people to an awful fate which is... not optimal.
When I look back at our history I can't be pessimistic, people in all times thought that things are getting worse and we are headed towards disaster, but if you compare our lives today with lives...
When I look back at our history I can't be pessimistic, people in all times thought that things are getting worse and we are headed towards disaster, but if you compare our lives today with lives of people in 20 century we do live better, same goes for 20 to 19 century and so on. Less diseases you can't treat, less hunger, less war, etc. I think if we'll avoid going full defcon. And you can argue that it's not the same around the globe, but for my country I'm hopeful.
No. Mostly. I understand society as an entirety will typically become wealthier overall and healthier overall. But my big worry is income inequality and job automation and how quickly we can get...
No. Mostly. I understand society as an entirety will typically become wealthier overall and healthier overall.
But my big worry is income inequality and job automation and how quickly we can get our society to either working differently or doing minor productive things if they are unemployed.
We can't have the homeless/jobless situation we have right now in large swaths of areas. From metro cities to dead coal mining towns. This poverty flies under the radar because society as a whole is "doing fine". But if it continues as a trend it will suck when we have to deal with it. Much like climate change.
To be honest, not very much. Many people have mentioned climate change. Looks like nothing is truly being done to stop it. One thing that irks me is that a lot of people proposing solutions to...
To be honest, not very much.
Many people have mentioned climate change. Looks like nothing is truly being done to stop it. One thing that irks me is that a lot of people proposing solutions to such problems lean heavily on technology and throw around buzzwords like "AI" and stuff as a panacea, when technology and consumerism is what got us here in the first place. It feels like throwing more fuel on the fire. Every day I see people lusting for new things and throwing away things that are rapidly becoming outdated, or broken out of planned obsolescence. Cars, appliances, electronics, clothes, whatever.
For example, people will buy a new car, neglect proper maintenance, and then a few years later buy a new car. Even if the new car is more efficient the damage done by manufacturing two new cars may only be "made up" in many decades. Appliances and electronics now are in a rapid cycle. people get new phones every two years or less and the old ones go to landfills. Maybe they're shipped to China and recycled using what basically amounts to slave labor. A hole appears in a shirt, it gets thrown away and replaced instead of being mended, which takes ten minutes with a needle and thread. So even though we have advancements we are fighting against ourselves and I think it's a losing battle. on top of that developing countries want their piece of the pie even if it means polluting the planet even more.
The other thing I'm worried about is technology and how it's being used in ways that don't really make the world much of a better place. To me it looks like nearly every new development or innovation at this point may just marginally increase our comfort and ease of life, while taking responsibilities and decisions away from us. The final conclusion to this process is getting rid of the human entirely or reducing them to a fat blob with no purpose in life other than to feel pleasure. That's not how a human should live, although I'm sure plenty of people would love to do just that.
I don't want to live in a world where I can't drive my own car, see the stars at night, go outside without being recorded by a dozen different cameras, and have my facial features and gait tracked every moment of the day. I don't love big brother, but it seems like he's coming for us anyway.
No. The governments now have enough tech to enslave and indoctrinate the population. Democratic processes are falling apart. The inequality gap is only widening over the years. Global warming is...
No.
The governments now have enough tech to enslave and indoctrinate the population.
Democratic processes are falling apart. The inequality gap is only widening over the years.
Global warming is fucking up the planet and will probably result in huge refugee crisis in the future.
Social media is destroying our attention spans, ability to have real relationships and think for ourselves, promoting mob mentality instead.
Sorry, i'm very much a doomer when it comes to this question. I honestly believe that technological progress has vastly outpaced our ability to moderate consumption of its use and that might be our undoing in the end. We're probably screwed.
Extremely optimistic. Everyone's getting pissed off, climate change is about to deliver a record-breaking kick to our collective asses, and we're on the verge of medical and power and automation revolutions that'll pale the past into insignificance. It's a perfect storm. If you were trying to intentionally forge a civilization in a crucible I don't think you could manage to set it up better.
Will it be pleasant? Of course not - that's not how progress gets made. Will we come out the other side better off? That's usually what we do as a species. We are only at our best when things are at their worst.
It's very basic. The market drives everything. Time was, markets were a local phenomena. That information interconnectedness has fundamentally changed the market forever, and it's a global force now, more than ever. It's also a real-time reactive force that can respond globally in a matter of hours, and it was never, ever like that before the internet revolutionized communications. Disruptions in one country cause echoing disruptions in others. It's no longer isolated.
No matter what beliefs, politics, nations, religions, or other forces exist, the market will be satisfied. The trigger events you're looking for will come on their own with climate change. The increasing levels of economic damage that will strike randomly all over the world as climate changes will mount an increasing pressure on everyone, every government, every community, every individual, to take this seriously and do something about it.
So far this has been gradual and we haven't sustained anything truly catastrophic. That will change. If you're looking for a singular event that'll get things moving, we may or may not get such a disaster, we may or may not see it coming and be able to prepare for it. If it comes, though, such as a Cat 5 hurricane slamming into NYC, the multi-trillion dollar price tag and market disruptions that follow it will catalyze a response.
Looking at it another way, how often has the future looked good?
Earlier 21st Century: Terrorism, an aggressive US invading and occupying countries, financial collapse.
Second half of 20th Century: A world bitterly divided along ideology with thousands of nuclear weapons ready to be used at a moment's notice.
First half of 20th Century: World wars, fascism, global economic collapse.
19th Century: Robber barons, devastating civil war in the US, colonialism, century of humiliation in China.
Earlier: Columbus, Genghis Khan, plagues, religious wars.
Even Earlier: Fall of Rome, fall of Han Dynasty, whatever the Sea Peoples were.
Much Earlier: The ice age.
My point is we've come this far but there have always been good reasons to think the future would be terrible. Our problems now might seem uniquely bad, and in some ways they are, but in the context of human history it's not unprecedented to have to deal with a challenging and uncertain future. There are also many things that are definitely getting better. Social issues (e.g. LGBT rights and acceptance) shouldn't be ignored as unimportant and advances in medicine continually narrow the scope of human misery.
Our point in history might seem unique as one with impossible challenges, but I think it's the opposite: what makes us unique isn't our challenges but the fact that we thought for a while that we had escaped those challenges. We thought that the abject misery of the past was relegated to history books and that things would only get better. Instead we find ourselves facing an uncertain future like every other generation in history.
One of the greatest challenges here, I think, is to let that glimpse of a better future lead us to hope instead of hopelessness. We need to face our challenges and work towards that better future we thought we had rather than give in to hopelessness at the fact that it hasn't already arrived. This will only happen if we don't give up.
Hi.
No. :D
But hear me out.
So you know how you'll do that thing where you're like "what do blind people see" so you cover one of your eyes and la voila you don't see anything? (Please – not just me?)
That's kinda how I see things at the moment – and, in a way, how I see the past.
Regarding the future – it's not that it's dark. It's not that it's blackness. It's that you... just kinda can't see it.
You can tell there's something there. You've seen out of that eye your whole life (probably.) You know that there's stuff to look at, and maybe even something important that you really feel like you should be looking out for. But, alas, you've got a hand in the way so you're a bit stuck with one eye at the moment.
And oddly enough, looking back to the past is a bit like slightly cracking a finger and trying to watch a movie through that one eye – or read a book. You can make out shapes, sometimes a key component. But again, the bulk of it is just blur, miscellaneous colors, and a weird hazy beige. (The worst of colors.)
It feels like February 2018 had just passed recently. Events that happened some 2-4 years ago can feel like they could've happened just months ago; things that happened just months ago go the opposite direction.
I think that's the "brain fog" or "brain rot" that you'll hear associated with depression now and then.
But there's still a weird part about all this – you're sitting there with a hand on your eye. You want to see out of it. You need that eye. There's shit to look at, your arm's getting tired, your other eye is tired of picking up the slack, you're getting a little frustrated and annoyed, and you just want to drop your hand and like look at shit.
But you can't? And you want to. So you'll try to bring your hand down. And then next thing you know you're sat at your desk inadvertently slapping yourself because you keep pulling your hand off as it, as if elastic, tries to clasp back where it's found a home – regardless of your wishes. (I think this is ADHD.)
So what the hell did all that mean.
In short – it's not exactly a glib, defeatist, and hopeless perspective.
Regarding the future – I know it's there.
I can see myself at the new adult job being my (surprisingly) giddy, bubbly, social self and getting tea before work and making friends. (Dude I know right?)
I see a nice, well-furnished, well-kept apartment (with the noicest of mattresses in my bedroom), a not-insignificant but healthy amount of candles, books abound (most of which I haven't read yet – cheers, Amazon.)
I see hobbies – yoga, weightlifting, sculpting, painting, poetry, music, cooking classes, art museums.
I see vacations.
But it's like scrolling through a mental social feed. It's all pictures. They're nice pictures. Wholesome and relaxing in nature.
But I just cannot break that fourth wall and envision myself in those shoes, in those pictures, in that life.
And that's why we go to therapy.
Hope that somehow answered the question lmao. If not I'll take this down
Not really. I think climate change is going to keep eroding society and life in general will get worse. I am trying to hope I can find personal happiness despite this.
I am very optimistic for both societal and personal spheres, which would have surprised me 4 years ago. For the vast majority of my life, I optimistically assumed that the future is a bleak death by a thousand cuts. Now, I have a decent job that I don't hate, and I am working towards finding a job that I love. I am living in a decent place, and I am meeting new people.
Societally, we have never been more connected. I can chat with people in South Africa, I can play a video game with someone in Bulgaria, and then watch a stream from a Swede. The only reason that the world appears so divided is so that the status quo can be maintained, and our current despots can retain their grip on power and wealth. I am not claiming that many of these people are intentionally working towards disunity, obviously some are, but that the system they help construct and maintain pushes them towards it. Never before has there been a better chance for the world to be changed for the betterment of everyone.
I don't know if anyone will be successful, but I do have hope.
For my personal future i'm quite optimistic, since my career is doing quite well.
For the planet in general i'm at a meh.
The universe is indifferent, and so is climate change.
It's not affecting daily life of everyone yet, so I doubt a lot of chance will happen if it could hurt profits.
In the end humanity will survive, 87% of humanity would die thanks to droughts lack of food caused by global warming etc. That would still leave about A billion people, assuming there's about 7.5 billion people.
It would be horrible a lot of death, but humanity would rebuild, and the quality of life of people would probably be higher. Since there's more resources per person.
So really short term future, I think it will be fine. A bit longer, would be tough to life through that. Far future should be fine again.
Climate change seems to be the biggest threat humanity is facing (barring some kind of mutually-assured-destruction nuclear war...or a new super-plague). There are a lot of smart people working on the problem in spite of the politicization of it. Either way, if we can't figure it out then the ensuing destruction of Earth would kind of put a damper on all the other ways humanity has progressed.
Beyond that, I'm pretty optimistic that my skin won't be melting off my face when I step outside any time soon.
In general, I can't help but be optimistic about the future. Certainly, things might look grim now but on the grander scale, Humans have a pretty good track record of improving things for themselves. It's hard to imagine what the future will hold but, unless an apocalypse occurs, I think in general the future will be better.
Joe Scott just came out with a video that speaks pretty deeply to this:
Dear Person In The Year 2219...
We're facing some big challenges. The world is changing rapidly and it's hard to keep up. But people are learning that you can't take things for granted and are stepping up in response. What we need right now is not the optimism or pessimism of thinking the future is destined to be one way or another, but the pragmatism that the future is what we make it. It's up to us to decide if we're willing to do what it takes to make it a good one.
not particularly. i don't think things are hopeless, but color me skeptical that we're going to see things trend for the better until well into this century, if they do at all. a combination of international crises, growing political polarization, and stratification of world power is going to have things all fucked up, and there's no real telling where it's going to lead--all signs point to it culminating in a total disaster, though, one which we're not really equipped to deal with at this point and probably won't be able to adapt to in time to stop shit from hitting the fan. that said, i'm sure we'll avert the worst case scenario, and i'm sure that we'll eventually figure things out--it might just be that figuring things out at this point is a matter which seemingly involves condemning billions of people to an awful fate which is... not optimal.
When I look back at our history I can't be pessimistic, people in all times thought that things are getting worse and we are headed towards disaster, but if you compare our lives today with lives of people in 20 century we do live better, same goes for 20 to 19 century and so on. Less diseases you can't treat, less hunger, less war, etc. I think if we'll avoid going full defcon. And you can argue that it's not the same around the globe, but for my country I'm hopeful.
No. Mostly. I understand society as an entirety will typically become wealthier overall and healthier overall.
But my big worry is income inequality and job automation and how quickly we can get our society to either working differently or doing minor productive things if they are unemployed.
We can't have the homeless/jobless situation we have right now in large swaths of areas. From metro cities to dead coal mining towns. This poverty flies under the radar because society as a whole is "doing fine". But if it continues as a trend it will suck when we have to deal with it. Much like climate change.
To be honest, not very much.
Many people have mentioned climate change. Looks like nothing is truly being done to stop it. One thing that irks me is that a lot of people proposing solutions to such problems lean heavily on technology and throw around buzzwords like "AI" and stuff as a panacea, when technology and consumerism is what got us here in the first place. It feels like throwing more fuel on the fire. Every day I see people lusting for new things and throwing away things that are rapidly becoming outdated, or broken out of planned obsolescence. Cars, appliances, electronics, clothes, whatever.
For example, people will buy a new car, neglect proper maintenance, and then a few years later buy a new car. Even if the new car is more efficient the damage done by manufacturing two new cars may only be "made up" in many decades. Appliances and electronics now are in a rapid cycle. people get new phones every two years or less and the old ones go to landfills. Maybe they're shipped to China and recycled using what basically amounts to slave labor. A hole appears in a shirt, it gets thrown away and replaced instead of being mended, which takes ten minutes with a needle and thread. So even though we have advancements we are fighting against ourselves and I think it's a losing battle. on top of that developing countries want their piece of the pie even if it means polluting the planet even more.
The other thing I'm worried about is technology and how it's being used in ways that don't really make the world much of a better place. To me it looks like nearly every new development or innovation at this point may just marginally increase our comfort and ease of life, while taking responsibilities and decisions away from us. The final conclusion to this process is getting rid of the human entirely or reducing them to a fat blob with no purpose in life other than to feel pleasure. That's not how a human should live, although I'm sure plenty of people would love to do just that.
I don't want to live in a world where I can't drive my own car, see the stars at night, go outside without being recorded by a dozen different cameras, and have my facial features and gait tracked every moment of the day. I don't love big brother, but it seems like he's coming for us anyway.
I am, but I can't explain why. Steven Pinker makes a compelling point, though.
No.
The governments now have enough tech to enslave and indoctrinate the population.
Democratic processes are falling apart. The inequality gap is only widening over the years.
Global warming is fucking up the planet and will probably result in huge refugee crisis in the future.
Social media is destroying our attention spans, ability to have real relationships and think for ourselves, promoting mob mentality instead.
Sorry, i'm very much a doomer when it comes to this question. I honestly believe that technological progress has vastly outpaced our ability to moderate consumption of its use and that might be our undoing in the end. We're probably screwed.