69 votes

Report from the moderators of r/blind about their latest meeting with Reddit representatives

13 comments

  1. [3]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    TLDR Some progress has been made, but moderation for blind and low vision users, while using third party apps, is about to become impossible and fixing that does not seem to be Reddit's priority....

    TLDR Some progress has been made, but moderation for blind and low vision users, while using third party apps, is about to become impossible and fixing that does not seem to be Reddit's priority.

    Edit for clearer sentence structure

    61 votes
    1. [2]
      MortimerHoughton
      Link Parent
      I would have summerized as, "Oh wait, you took us seriously when we said we were going to take care of your concerns? LOL, no, no, no, we just said that so we could deflect criticism about our...

      I would have summerized as, "Oh wait, you took us seriously when we said we were going to take care of your concerns? LOL, no, no, no, we just said that so we could deflect criticism about our decision to nuke third party apps from orbit. We're not going to actually fix things."

      49 votes
      1. doctortofu
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I've been trying to put a damper on my snark recently since I'm really becoming jaded and negative, but it truly reads that way to me too. How many times improvements to mod tools were promised,...

        I've been trying to put a damper on my snark recently since I'm really becoming jaded and negative, but it truly reads that way to me too. How many times improvements to mod tools were promised, how many years have passed? This just sounds like an attempt to not even put out some fires, but just cover them and let them smolder until the IPO, because calling blind people landed gentry or accusing them of harassment would be too shitty even for current reddit leadership...

        25 votes
  2. streblo
    Link
    Just a reminder about the megathread for this topic: https://tild.es/168c Using a megathread keeps the front page from being dominated by a single noisy topic.

    Just a reminder about the megathread for this topic: https://tild.es/168c

    Using a megathread keeps the front page from being dominated by a single noisy topic.

    34 votes
  3. [2]
    SmolderingSauna
    (edited )
    Link
    Citing the Americans with Disabilities Act seems appropriate and a serious threat to Reddit until you remember mods are volunteers, not employees. Reddit most certainly loses the PR battle here:...

    Citing the Americans with Disabilities Act seems appropriate and a serious threat to Reddit until you remember mods are volunteers, not employees. Reddit most certainly loses the PR battle here: the legal challenge remains to be seen...

    https://adata.org/factsheet/reasonable-accommodations-workplace

    edit: after further search

    "According to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), a volunteer is typically not a protected employee under Title I of the ADA because an employer-employee relationship usually is not formed."
    https://askjan.org/publications/consultants-corner/vol04iss02.cfm#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Equal%20Employment,relationship%20usually%20is%20not%20formed.

    16 votes
    1. Diff
      Link Parent
      ADA doesn't just apply to employees. If you have a service animal, it doesn't matter if you're an employee, a customer, or a passerby. Businesses open to the public are subject to the ADA as well,...

      ADA doesn't just apply to employees. If you have a service animal, it doesn't matter if you're an employee, a customer, or a passerby. Businesses open to the public are subject to the ADA as well, even on the web since 1996 according to ada.gov:

      For these reasons, the Department has consistently taken the position that the ADA’s requirements apply to all the goods, services, privileges, or activities offered by public accommodations, including those offered on the web.

      And even lists some examples of cases where the Department of Justice went after businesses for ADA failures:

      • Rite Aid Corporation: The Department reached an agreement with Rite Aid Corporation to address accessibility barriers in Rite Aid’s COVID-19 Vaccine Registration Portal.
      • Teachers Test Prep, Inc.: The Department reached an agreement with Teachers Test Prep, Inc., regarding complaints that the test prep company’s online video courses did not provide captions and were inaccessible to people who are deaf.
      • HRB Digital and HRB Tax Group (H&R Block): The Department reached an agreement with H&R Block to address claims that the company failed to code its website so that individuals with disabilities could use assistive technology such as screen reader software, refreshable Braille displays, keyboard navigation, and captioning.
      • Peapod: The Department reached an agreement with Peapod to address claims that its online grocery delivery services were not accessible to some individuals with disabilities.

      It's not an argument about reasonable accomodations to work, it's an argument about not having unnecessary barriers that make it impossible for disabled people to frequent your business.

      17 votes
  4. [5]
    Nergal
    Link
    Part of me has some optimistic hope that Spez will wake up and decide to go back on his decisions for the time being. I don't think that'll be enough to undo the damage, but it may help moderators...

    Part of me has some optimistic hope that Spez will wake up and decide to go back on his decisions for the time being. I don't think that'll be enough to undo the damage, but it may help moderators who rely on these tools.

    9 votes
    1. chocobean
      Link Parent
      Wake up? No, sir, Huffman thought Reddit was dead in 2006 and washed his hands of it gladly nearly twenty years ago. This isn't some tender father about to mistakenly marry his only daughter to a...

      Wake up? No, sir, Huffman thought Reddit was dead in 2006 and washed his hands of it gladly nearly twenty years ago. This isn't some tender father about to mistakenly marry his only daughter to a criminal. This is a man selling property to the highest bidder.

      It kind of stings a little bit when I think about how much money I left on the table. [The sale] was a big deal for me at the time. I was 22 and it seemed like a lot of money for me.

      "In hindsight it was a mistake to sell but at the time it was very exciting. I didn't think Reddit was going to keep growing – I thought it was dead. We were so dysfunctional internally. It seemed like the smartest thing to do was just to try and get some money out of it while we could."

      https://www.theage.com.au/technology/atrocious-mobile-sucks-reddit-cofounder-steve-huffman-on-what-site-has-become-20141208-122txn.html

      27 votes
    2. ispotato
      Link Parent
      My personal hope is that the moderators of r/blind find some legal assistance in giving Reddit a wakeup call. I don't think there's any hope for Reddit to do anything useful without being forced...

      My personal hope is that the moderators of r/blind find some legal assistance in giving Reddit a wakeup call. I don't think there's any hope for Reddit to do anything useful without being forced to. Which tends to be the case with accessibility, people who don't care aren't going to care until they have some consequences. And then they still don't actually care, but they would rather not be sued.

      Of course, I wouldn't blame the mods if they got fed up and just walked away. Fighting to keep accomodations that you already had and are being taken away from you must be exhausting.

      16 votes
    3. [2]
      Gekko
      Link Parent
      I used to be "optimistic" that any corporate leaders will do whatever it takes to make as much money as possible as fast as possible. It was at least predictable behavior. Now it's even scarier...

      I used to be "optimistic" that any corporate leaders will do whatever it takes to make as much money as possible as fast as possible. It was at least predictable behavior. Now it's even scarier because powerful people will torch their companies and reputation just for an ego trip, fundamentally changing the structures of media empires just so they can win the approval of random losers on the internet.

      3 votes
      1. simplify
        Link Parent
        Haven’t we seen, though, that those random losers on the internet can be summoned to do your bidding if indoctrinated properly? Random losers who worship you can be useful.

        Haven’t we seen, though, that those random losers on the internet can be summoned to do your bidding if indoctrinated properly? Random losers who worship you can be useful.

        3 votes
  5. Marukka
    Link
    Reddit leadership literally does not care about any of their mods or users. I hope this makes the news. No blind mods in /r/Blind. Awful.

    Reddit leadership literally does not care about any of their mods or users. I hope this makes the news. No blind mods in /r/Blind. Awful.

    4 votes
  6. [2]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. boxer_dogs_dance
      Link Parent
      If you are going to do this and summarize via machine the carefully crafted report from a moderator who has been ignored, the least you can do is compare the summary with the original and add in...

      If you are going to do this and summarize via machine the carefully crafted report from a moderator who has been ignored, the least you can do is compare the summary with the original and add in the details that your large language model didn't think were important. CHATGPT completely ignored the third party auditors and their qualifications or lack thereof.

      12 votes