10 votes

User accountability and complicated technologies

I've been thinking about the arguments that are increasingly common when dealing with tech: "it's too complicated" and "I just want something that works".

My father gifted a used computer to me and my brother when we were kids. Ours to use, ours to take care. He would pay for the eventual screw up, but we had to walk several blocks carrying the tower to get assistance.

I messed up a lot over the years, mostly because I wanted to explore the little that I knew and learn more. I had some magazines that expected everything to go well if instructions were followed and no access to internet forums to ask for help. I was limited to just one language as well. I had to find a way out. Nowadays things are much more simple and really just work, until they don't and I can't really fix them.

In this world, what people can do is complain. Or offer a report of how things went wrong and wait patiently. It's not even that common for people in general to just go back to the version that worked. There's no version, only the app we use or can't use and it's not our responsibility any kind of maintenance.

I have to confess I was going in another direction when I started, but things are really limited from a consumer's point of view. In part, it's our fault for not wanting to deal with the burden of knowledge, it inevitably takes the control away from us, but big tech really approves and incentives this behavior.

As with so many problems I see in the world, education is the solution. And educating ourselves might be the only dependable option.

9 comments

  1. [5]
    stu2b50
    Link
    I don’t see the issue. Some people don’t have the desire or time to deeply learn about a technology but still need it for practical purposes. I’m grateful that modern cars have gotten to the point...

    I don’t see the issue. Some people don’t have the desire or time to deeply learn about a technology but still need it for practical purposes. I’m grateful that modern cars have gotten to the point where you can be mostly clueless about them and still use them to get from point A to B without issue.

    Computers are powerful tools and it’s inefficient to require all users to specialize in computer knowledge before allowing them to use it.

    There’ll be products that just work, there’ll be products that are more powerful but don’t just work, and that’s OK. Different needs for different people.

    10 votes
    1. [4]
      Sodliddesu
      Link Parent
      There's a difference between knowing how to tinker with your computer, cable box or TV and the 3,000lb box of aluminum and steel that you've never changed the brakes on in ten years and have four...

      I’m grateful that modern cars have gotten to the point where you can be mostly clueless about them and still use them to get from point A to B without issue.

      There's a difference between knowing how to tinker with your computer, cable box or TV and the 3,000lb box of aluminum and steel that you've never changed the brakes on in ten years and have four bald tires.

      I get that people don't have a desire to learn the difference between a boxer or W6, or the difference between front and rear engined cars but you should learn how to do basic maintenance and upkeep. I think that's the root of this argument. You may have different needs but the world doesn't revolve around those needs.

      I'm happy that Apple products exist and 'Just work' so my mom can have a phone that doesn't break on her often... But when something does, my only answer can be "Have you taken it in? Did an app update?" Lovecraftian forces beyond my comprehension bring her phone madness and doom and I sit helpless, meanwhile I can remote into her computer from the other side of the world and fix registry errors like a space wizard.

      But, people being mostly clueless about cars is why they're busy on their phones instead of respecting the pile of metal powered by explosions they're sitting on top of.

      5 votes
      1. [3]
        stu2b50
        Link Parent
        Is there? Basic maintenance and repair is important, but that’s what mechanics are for. Specialization in labor. I pay other people to do repairs - if the car breaks down on the road, I call AAA...

        Is there? Basic maintenance and repair is important, but that’s what mechanics are for. Specialization in labor. I pay other people to do repairs - if the car breaks down on the road, I call AAA or have it towed to a mechanic.

        I'm happy that Apple products exist and 'Just work' so my mom can have a phone that doesn't break on her often... But when something does, my only answer can be "Have you taken it in? Did an app update?"

        Yeah, she’ll take it into the Apple Store or a licensed repair shop and have them investigate. If that’s not what you want there’s no lack of smartphones with more tinker-ability but I doubt your mom wants to spend her time doing that! So she doesn’t, and exchanges money for someone else to spend their time on it.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          Sodliddesu
          Link Parent
          Well, yes but that's because no one can get killed by you not being able to access a 32bit app on a 64bit phone with no compatibility layer but if you don't know about your car it's pretty easy...

          Is there?

          Well, yes but that's because no one can get killed by you not being able to access a 32bit app on a 64bit phone with no compatibility layer but if you don't know about your car it's pretty easy to.

          Granted, lack of computer knowledge makes you a more likely vector for malware or spyware but that'll just mess up your life, not end it.

          2 votes
          1. stu2b50
            Link Parent
            If it’s something that’s not going to be caught by regular maintenance checks at the auto shop and it’s not the kind of issue that shows up on the dash then it is what it is. I know people that...

            If it’s something that’s not going to be caught by regular maintenance checks at the auto shop and it’s not the kind of issue that shows up on the dash then it is what it is.

            I know people that are into cars, they do not do a deep dive into the car every day before they go off. The only difference between when and how they do maintenance on their car and I have maintenance done on my car is that I exchange money for the service and they don’t.

            6 votes
  2. deeplyembedded
    Link
    I feel like if you switched out the references to computers with cars, this same comment would have come from anyone in the generation before. Not that I am advocating for ignorance, just...

    I feel like if you switched out the references to computers with cars, this same comment would have come from anyone in the generation before. Not that I am advocating for ignorance, just observing that this is a very typical trend with technology. There are strong market forces to reduce complexity to users, while also disincentivizing a "fix it" mentality.

    I think that the premise to Asimov's Foundation series is interesting -- humanity gets to a point where they are reliant on technology that no one understands. We are taking it even a step further from the typical technology trajectory with machine learning and AI, which are intended to solve problems that humans cannot. It will be an interesting future.

    7 votes
  3. Gekko
    Link
    In a world of evolving software and technology in general, I think you're right, education is key. But specifically, educating people out of the rut of "I'm familiar with this so I'm resistant to...

    In a world of evolving software and technology in general, I think you're right, education is key.

    But specifically, educating people out of the rut of "I'm familiar with this so I'm resistant to change". Reluctance to adopt new ideas, concepts, or technology is one of humanity's greatest flaws, and it takes discipline and an inquisitive mindset to break out of it. I'm not talking about blind adoption, but having the will to give new things a fair chance and evaluation vs. sticking with what you're comfortable with.

    THAT BEING SAID, it's unrealistic to expect a layperson to just debug their own stuff. If my phone's microphone breaks, I'm not super confident that I'd be able to just open it up and replace the part myself with no issues. I have to take it to a professional with expertise and custom knowledge. I have my limits, and there's a convenience with just dropping some cash to have someone deal with it vs. spending the better part of a week learning how the specific internals of my phone work. And you're right, they're designed to be like that, expendable, replaceable, and difficult for someone to quickly repair on their own. Our own consumerism gets in the way of designing a tech ecosystem that anyone with a little curiosity and know-how can maintain alone.

    I'm curious what a world would look like where I built my phone the same way I would a PC, or where everyone who used a computer had the knowledge to access Windows's basic debugging tools, or could do basic mechanic work on their car. Where everyone had more practical technology education.

    3 votes
  4. skybrian
    Link
    Yes that’s true, often it’s out of your hands and all you can do is hope someone else fix it if you ask nicely. It’s annoying to deal with. There are downsides to doing things yourself and having...

    Yes that’s true, often it’s out of your hands and all you can do is hope someone else fix it if you ask nicely. It’s annoying to deal with. There are downsides to doing things yourself and having full control, though.

    In the early days, personal computers were often treated as toys and nothing too important happened if you screwed up. That can still be the case today, but since we rely on them more, it’s better not to do it with your main laptop or phone. You can get another computer to screw around with, like your father did for you. People often use a Raspberry Pi for this, or you can even go smaller and mess around with embedded programming with Arduino.

    If you build something actually useful with a tiny cheap computer, you can put it to work, stop screwing around with it, and get another cheap computer to play with. (An alternative way to do it without additional hardware is to mess around with virtual machines.)

    This is why, over the years, I’ve become increasingly comfortable with Apple’s locked down systems and Chromebooks. Maybe I’ll even get an iPhone someday? I still have a bunch of old Android phones I could use for hacking if I wanted, though I probably won’t. Not every device needs to be hackable; just using it for the one thing you bought it for is fine too.

    It’s true that you lose something when you rely on systems you know little about. However, people have only so much time for learning about technology and even when you want to learn about something in depth, you have to choose your battles. I appreciate systems that just work, so I can spend more time on the stuff I actually want to play with.

    I think people who enjoy learning things often underestimate not just how much effort it takes to learn something in depth, but that you will soon start to forget it if you don’t use it. Even if you built it yourself. Keeping good notes is important. Keeping things simple so there’s less to figure out is even better.

    Having locked down, single-purpose systems that don’t need to change can be better if it avoids the upgrade treadmill. If I don’t use a computer for a month and then wake it up, it inevitably wants to apply software updates and reboot. Sometimes that will change how it works too, because tech companies are always improving their flagship systems. There is a mental load to keeping up that you don‘t notice so much for a computer you use every day, but this burden doesn’t diminish when you use it less. The user experience for occasional use is that it has to reboot every time you wake it up.

    Systems that improve after you bought them can sometimes be magical (in good and bad ways), but systems that are just done (other than limited security updates if needed) are often more pleasant to have around in the long term.

    I find I have more in common with non-technical users than I thought. I still appreciate hackable technology, though. Top on my wishlist would be hackable hearing aids or earbuds. They wouldn’t be the main ones I use, though, or at least not right away.

    2 votes
  5. Amarok
    Link
    There was a time when anything that cost more than a week's salary and was complicated enough to deserve it came with a manual. Not the generic kind of idiot-assuming garbage we have now - this...

    There was a time when anything that cost more than a week's salary and was complicated enough to deserve it came with a manual. Not the generic kind of idiot-assuming garbage we have now - this manual taught you what it was, how to use it, how to fix it, the part number and details of every single component down to the last screw. The benefit of this was simple - if you had the book, you could service the thing and learn how it worked. That world died when mail order catalogs went out of style.

    Now all of this is locked up in the name of trade secrets, rent-seeking anti-consumer repair practices, disrupting interoperability to get vendor lock-in, and the belief that the majority of one's customers don't even know how to read the manual in the first place. I don't think it would be such a tragedy if manufacturers were required by law to get back to providing a proper tech manual with every copy of their product. I'd also strip manufacturers of all of these 'rights' to their products that they think they have after they sell it - the correct answer there is none, ask again and go directly out of business.

    Before one could look up everything on the internet, having excellent manuals was a major selling point that made a lot of brands into the household names we all remember. People liked to fix things for themselves, and many still do. Some vendors still provide real manuals but it is the exception not the rule. Bullshit like John Deere and Apple is the rule of the day. All the real tech stuff has moved into 'service manuals' that only privileged employees of the company have the legal right to access.

    This mad rush to embed chips into everything pisses me off as well. My coffee grinder does not require a fucking microchip - in fact I don't even want to see a circuit board in there. It's a motor, not a Mars mission. I have a couple of solid metal fans from the '50s around here (the finger-guards optional fan generation) that just need a little oil every couple of years. They have outlasted every single model from dozens of entire generations of modern fan products. It takes all of twenty minutes to polish them up to perfection with a screwdriver, copper wool, and a tiny oil can. Meanwhile I can't even open modern plastic fans without breaking them.

    2 votes