I see this asked all the time in comments around this topic, so to get ahead of what Dolphin or players would've gained from being on Steam anyway: Steam cloud for save games Steam input...
I see this asked all the time in comments around this topic, so to get ahead of what Dolphin or players would've gained from being on Steam anyway:
Steam cloud for save games
Steam input
Controller configuration sharing across a wide range of controllers
Remote play together as an alternative to netplay
Auto-updates & better patch notes visibility
Easy opt-in for alternate test builds
Simpler to set up on Steam Deck, as all things Steam
And while you can obviously get all this on a piecemeal basis, it would've been a major boon to have it integrated in a more streamlined package.
It's a shame it didn't work out. Perhaps the team can have another go at it in the future if things settle down a bit around emulation.
Nintendo didn't send a DMCA takedown notice regarding Dolphin at all. Valve inquired Nintendo about the emulator, to which the latter cited the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions as...
Nintendo didn't send a DMCA takedown notice regarding Dolphin at all. Valve inquired Nintendo about the emulator, to which the latter cited the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions as justification for blocking the Steam release of Dolphin. Valve then forwarded Nintendo's statement to Dolphin and required them to have an agreement with Nintendo, before the release could move forward.
The Dolphin Emulator team doesn't believe that the project is in any legal danger, due to the following:
The Wii Common Key used to decrypt Wii games was freely distributed for years without objection from Nintendo
Wii Common Key in Dolphin was contributed by a member of Team Twiizer, the group which extracted it from a Wii console with a pair of tweezers
Dolphin isn't primarily designed to circumvent protection, despite Nintendo's claims to the contrary
GameCube games aren't encrypted at all
Dolphin is also a game development platform; homebrew and mods exist that specifically target the emulator due to less limitations
Dolphin still falls under the DMCA's reverse engineering exemptions for interoperability
Even if the DMCA's anti-circumvention clause were to be interpreted as disallowing all Wii game protection circumvention, removing the Wii Common Key wouldn't make a difference anyways
Nintendo never claimed that Dolphin violated any copyright, since randomly-generated strings of letters and numbers aren't copyrightable under current US law
Since coming to an agreement with Nintendo is unlikely, Dolphin won't be releasing on Steam. Some features originally developed for it will still be coming out, however.
I love emulators as much as the next guy, but come on, we all know that very few people are using them for homebrew games and they're very much DRM circumvention machines. ;)
Dolphin isn't primarily designed to circumvent protection, despite Nintendo's claims to the contrary
Dolphin is also a game development platform; homebrew and mods exist that specifically target the emulator due to less limitations
I love emulators as much as the next guy, but come on, we all know that very few people are using them for homebrew games and they're very much DRM circumvention machines. ;)
Maybe this was lost in the summary, but they're not talking about how people use Dolphin. The word "primarily" here is regarding the intention of the software. FTA: That is to say, the point of...
Maybe this was lost in the summary, but they're not talking about how people use Dolphin. The word "primarily" here is regarding the intention of the software. FTA:
We have a very strong argument that Dolphin is not primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection. Dolphin is designed to recreate the GameCube and Wii hardware as software, and to provide the means for a user to interact with this emulated environment. Only an incredibly tiny portion of our code is actually related to circumvention.
That is to say, the point of the emulator is to emulate, and not to break locks.
I suppose if it didn't come prepackaged with the Wii Common Key that decrypts Wii games there wouldn't be anything to object? I guess Nintendo could still argue that what it's being used for (and...
I suppose if it didn't come prepackaged with the Wii Common Key that decrypts Wii games there wouldn't be anything to object?
I guess Nintendo could still argue that what it's being used for (and the decrypt key is just plug and play).
Even there, the DMCA has provisions to allow circumventing copy protection when it's for the purposes of interoperability. There's already nothing to object to even with the common key.
Even there, the DMCA has provisions to allow circumventing copy protection when it's for the purposes of interoperability. There's already nothing to object to even with the common key.
Sure, by all accounts, emulators can be legal. But denying what they're obviously meant to accomplish among us regular folks isn't very productive for discussion, in my opinion.
Sure, by all accounts, emulators can be legal. But denying what they're obviously meant to accomplish among us regular folks isn't very productive for discussion, in my opinion.
Are you referring Dolphin's opinion on the matter? Because I would assume they don't have that kind of cash - if they "admit" it and aren't willing to fight it in court, it's dumb to take that...
Are you referring Dolphin's opinion on the matter? Because I would assume they don't have that kind of cash - if they "admit" it and aren't willing to fight it in court, it's dumb to take that stance (unless they're ready to sunset the whole project).
It's like going to the local smoke shop in states where marijuana is illegal and buying a "tobacco bong." Or going to the sketchiest gas station in your town and buying a glass rose. If we lived...
It's like going to the local smoke shop in states where marijuana is illegal and buying a "tobacco bong." Or going to the sketchiest gas station in your town and buying a glass rose.
If we lived in a world where we had reasonable laws about copyright and IP, we could drop the charade. For example, if abandoned/unavailable games, or even just games older than say, 10 years, were legally allowed to be emulated with no issues, that would be wonderful and nobody would have to pretend.
As it stands, any challenges to copyright would probably not land in our favor. Likely, it would be made stricter and emulators would be made squarely illegal. So, for now, we benefit when consumers, developers, politicians, and everyone else involved keeps pretending that Dolphin and other emulators are not primarily used for playing bootleg games for free. This way, nobody has to deal with the giant mess of actually untangling our laws and making huge decisions. Heads in the sand and maintain the status quo of don't ask, don't tell.
I'm talking about what it is used for, and what everyone knows it is primarily designed for. If there's a toothbrush on my AK-47, I still can't sell it at a drugstore 🤷🏿♂️
I'm talking about what it is used for, and what everyone knows it is primarily designed for.
If there's a toothbrush on my AK-47, I still can't sell it at a drugstore 🤷🏿♂️
What it's primarily designed for is to play ripped GCN games. It depends on the user whether or not those rips are obtained legally or not. The abysmal state of the retro console game market and...
What it's primarily designed for is to play ripped GCN games. It depends on the user whether or not those rips are obtained legally or not. The abysmal state of the retro console game market and the industry's disinterest in redistributing retro games is the cause of people resorting to piracy, not the emulators.
A more reasonable comparison point is old PC games that are not on contemporary digital distribution platforms. I'm sure many would gladly pay a fair price for a Silent Hill 2 re-release on PC to have that in their library for perpetuity instead of $100-200 for a copy whose disc may not be functional and is subject to deterioration.
Dolphin has been, at its very core, about more than GameCube for many many years. Other than that, this is all very reasonable and easy to agree with, but I'm not sure if it works as a response to...
Dolphin has been, at its very core, about more than GameCube for many many years.
Other than that, this is all very reasonable and easy to agree with, but I'm not sure if it works as a response to what I wrote earlier.
I agree that emulators are a great thing, I just don't see the point in denying what they're really about.
Without the existence of GOG and other storefronts selling retro PC games, software like ScummVM would be in a similar space as Dolphin today. I don't think ScummVM is "really about" piracy. The...
Without the existence of GOG and other storefronts selling retro PC games, software like ScummVM would be in a similar space as Dolphin today. I don't think ScummVM is "really about" piracy. The current state of sourcing retro console games is a problem of the industry's making, so that's why I don't consider Dolphin (and wider console emulation) to be "really about" piracy. I imagine there could be a very vibrant market around distributing authorized rips of games, but it seems to me that many IP holders don't care enough (about their history or piracy) to invest in something like this.
I understand your reasoning, but you're being theoretical an maybe a little forceful. I'm not an IT person, to me it doesn't matter what something is down to lines of code. In practice, does...
I understand your reasoning, but you're being theoretical an maybe a little forceful. I'm not an IT person, to me it doesn't matter what something is down to lines of code.
In practice, does anyone has any doubt that playing alternative game copies is the main reason why Dolphin is relevant and known today, and a explicit reason for its development? How can that be even remotely controversial?
I'm not saying this is immoral or anything, I've used it before, but let's call it for what it is!
They're somehow ignoring the bigger request? Dolphin should really be laying low. First thing a lawyer always says is to not make public statements. I'm surprised their lawyer did not tell them to...
Nintendo made no demands and made only a single request to Valve.
We specifically request that Dolphin’s “coming soon” notice be removed and that you ensure the emulator does not release on the Steam store moving forward.
They're somehow ignoring the bigger request?
Nintendo requests that Valve retain backup copies of anything removed, and retain any communications Valve may have received or does receive from the Dolphin developers.
Dolphin should really be laying low. First thing a lawyer always says is to not make public statements. I'm surprised their lawyer did not tell them to not make this post
I see this asked all the time in comments around this topic, so to get ahead of what Dolphin or players would've gained from being on Steam anyway:
And while you can obviously get all this on a piecemeal basis, it would've been a major boon to have it integrated in a more streamlined package.
It's a shame it didn't work out. Perhaps the team can have another go at it in the future if things settle down a bit around emulation.
Nintendo didn't send a DMCA takedown notice regarding Dolphin at all. Valve inquired Nintendo about the emulator, to which the latter cited the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions as justification for blocking the Steam release of Dolphin. Valve then forwarded Nintendo's statement to Dolphin and required them to have an agreement with Nintendo, before the release could move forward.
The Dolphin Emulator team doesn't believe that the project is in any legal danger, due to the following:
Since coming to an agreement with Nintendo is unlikely, Dolphin won't be releasing on Steam. Some features originally developed for it will still be coming out, however.
I love emulators as much as the next guy, but come on, we all know that very few people are using them for homebrew games and they're very much DRM circumvention machines. ;)
Maybe this was lost in the summary, but they're not talking about how people use Dolphin. The word "primarily" here is regarding the intention of the software. FTA:
That is to say, the point of the emulator is to emulate, and not to break locks.
I suppose if it didn't come prepackaged with the Wii Common Key that decrypts Wii games there wouldn't be anything to object?
I guess Nintendo could still argue that what it's being used for (and the decrypt key is just plug and play).
Even there, the DMCA has provisions to allow circumventing copy protection when it's for the purposes of interoperability. There's already nothing to object to even with the common key.
Sure, by all accounts, emulators can be legal. But denying what they're obviously meant to accomplish among us regular folks isn't very productive for discussion, in my opinion.
Are you referring Dolphin's opinion on the matter? Because I would assume they don't have that kind of cash - if they "admit" it and aren't willing to fight it in court, it's dumb to take that stance (unless they're ready to sunset the whole project).
It's like going to the local smoke shop in states where marijuana is illegal and buying a "tobacco bong." Or going to the sketchiest gas station in your town and buying a glass rose.
If we lived in a world where we had reasonable laws about copyright and IP, we could drop the charade. For example, if abandoned/unavailable games, or even just games older than say, 10 years, were legally allowed to be emulated with no issues, that would be wonderful and nobody would have to pretend.
As it stands, any challenges to copyright would probably not land in our favor. Likely, it would be made stricter and emulators would be made squarely illegal. So, for now, we benefit when consumers, developers, politicians, and everyone else involved keeps pretending that Dolphin and other emulators are not primarily used for playing bootleg games for free. This way, nobody has to deal with the giant mess of actually untangling our laws and making huge decisions. Heads in the sand and maintain the status quo of don't ask, don't tell.
I'm talking about what it is used for, and what everyone knows it is primarily designed for.
If there's a toothbrush on my AK-47, I still can't sell it at a drugstore 🤷🏿♂️
What it's primarily designed for is to play ripped GCN games. It depends on the user whether or not those rips are obtained legally or not. The abysmal state of the retro console game market and the industry's disinterest in redistributing retro games is the cause of people resorting to piracy, not the emulators.
A more reasonable comparison point is old PC games that are not on contemporary digital distribution platforms. I'm sure many would gladly pay a fair price for a Silent Hill 2 re-release on PC to have that in their library for perpetuity instead of $100-200 for a copy whose disc may not be functional and is subject to deterioration.
Dolphin has been, at its very core, about more than GameCube for many many years.
Other than that, this is all very reasonable and easy to agree with, but I'm not sure if it works as a response to what I wrote earlier.
I agree that emulators are a great thing, I just don't see the point in denying what they're really about.
Only little more. The Wii is barely different under the hood. Even as siblings, they're far more closely related than most.
That distinction is only relevant to programmers. For users, it's a Wii machine in addition to GameCube, and those are different things.
Is it a difference at all? What does it change? Emulating Wii software is no different than GameCube software, technically or practically or legally.
Without the existence of GOG and other storefronts selling retro PC games, software like ScummVM would be in a similar space as Dolphin today. I don't think ScummVM is "really about" piracy. The current state of sourcing retro console games is a problem of the industry's making, so that's why I don't consider Dolphin (and wider console emulation) to be "really about" piracy. I imagine there could be a very vibrant market around distributing authorized rips of games, but it seems to me that many IP holders don't care enough (about their history or piracy) to invest in something like this.
I understand your reasoning, but you're being theoretical an maybe a little forceful. I'm not an IT person, to me it doesn't matter what something is down to lines of code.
In practice, does anyone has any doubt that playing alternative game copies is the main reason why Dolphin is relevant and known today, and a explicit reason for its development? How can that be even remotely controversial?
I'm not saying this is immoral or anything, I've used it before, but let's call it for what it is!
They're somehow ignoring the bigger request?
Dolphin should really be laying low. First thing a lawyer always says is to not make public statements. I'm surprised their lawyer did not tell them to not make this post