I have been pleasantly surprised at how hard in the paint Biden has gone against the CCP. We seem to have finally woken to the fact that China must be contained for the good of the rest of the world.
I have been pleasantly surprised at how hard in the paint Biden has gone against the CCP. We seem to have finally woken to the fact that China must be contained for the good of the rest of the world.
Could you elaborate more on this? I don't understand exactly why China "must be contained". I'm also unsure why the USA should be making a decision on behalf of the whole planet.
China must be contained for the good of the rest of the world.
Could you elaborate more on this? I don't understand exactly why China "must be contained". I'm also unsure why the USA should be making a decision on behalf of the whole planet.
Because China is a fascist state currently trying to genocide it's own people and does not seem to respect the sovereignty of many of it's neighbors. The US is the world's largest economy,...
Because China is a fascist state currently trying to genocide it's own people and does not seem to respect the sovereignty of many of it's neighbors.
The US is the world's largest economy, military, and China's largest trading partner, and thus any action taken to contain China without the support of the United States would be futile.
I mean "Because China is a fascist state currently trying to genocide it's own people and does not seem to respect the sovereignty of many of it's neighbors." If you change China for the US the...
I mean
"Because China is a fascist state currently trying to genocide it's own people and does not seem to respect the sovereignty of many of it's neighbors."
If you change China for the US the statement still makes quite a bit sense. I want to clarify that I'm not defending China, but instead saying that both the US and Chinese governments are pretty bad on a national and international scale. Yes the US is not literally genociding it's own people but the US has been the cause to many many unnecessary wars (genociding other people), and also a homelessness and drug epidemic within their borders that they haven't really addressed, as well as being the 4th in worst wealth inequality in the world and no health care (in a very abstract way the American government let's their people die).
Again, I am not pro Chinese government but rather anti- both the Chinese and the American governments. I think neither china nor the US should ever speak on behalf of the whole planet, I think letting any country do so is ignorance on how complex different world ideologies and cultures are.
America doesn't have free healthcare, but we do have subsidized health insurance and a mandate that hospitals must provide care to patients regardless of their ability to pay. Healthcare can send...
America doesn't have free healthcare, but we do have subsidized health insurance and a mandate that hospitals must provide care to patients regardless of their ability to pay. Healthcare can send people into debt, but it's not going to outright kill anyone, and it is possible to just ignore the medical debt.
As for sovereignty, the US has recently invaded Iraq, which was another brutal dictatorship in the process of genociding it's own people. Afghanistan, which was ruled by the Taliban and was sheltering In Laden after 9/11, and we dropped some bombs on Libya, which was yet another brutal dictatorship in the process of genociding it's own people. Also Serbia, which again, genocide.
Like there's a pattern there, if you don't blatantly provoke the US or start trying to genocide someone, we're not going to invade or bomb you. Yes, this was not the case in the 50's-70's, and even the 80's to a smaller degree. But it isn't the 50's anymore, it's not even the 80's anymore.
Obviously the United States is not perfect, and it could potentially get worse, but it has systems that could also allow it to get better.
China doesn't really have a future way to get better. The recent changes to their constitution (well not so recent anymore) basically make not annexing Taiwan eventually unconstitutional. They've continued their attempts to claim the South China Sea, and continued their suppression of dissidents in Hong Kong.
It isn't a matter of the US being perfect and deserving to rule the world, it's a matter of no other power being capable of matching China. It would be great if every nation would just respect their neighbors and citizens, but that isn't going to happen on it's own, so as long as China has a large military and expansionist policy, and no other power in the region is capable of matching them, we will need the United States military.
My friend, a bad cold is poor for one's health, while cancer is also bad for one's health. Botu require rest and healthcare but to think they are the same degree of bad is to give one too much of...
My friend, a bad cold is poor for one's health, while cancer is also bad for one's health. Botu require rest and healthcare but to think they are the same degree of bad is to give one too much of a free pass. Hint, in one of these countries what you have just said is not subject to lifetime imprisonment.
China commits atrocities on its own people, while the United States exports them to other countries, typically via wars and arranging coups. I don't believe it's unfair to say they are similar...
China commits atrocities on its own people, while the United States exports them to other countries, typically via wars and arranging coups. I don't believe it's unfair to say they are similar levels of terrible.
There are many American men and women that have whistleblowed American atrocities and crimes that have had to flee the US to avoid unfair legal persecution, and sadly many that didn't get to flee....
There are many American men and women that have whistleblowed American atrocities and crimes that have had to flee the US to avoid unfair legal persecution, and sadly many that didn't get to flee. In my opinion both governments are a cancer.
Both have done a lot of bad but it's undeniable that they're not the same level of bad. Why is it so easy for Americans to think otherwise? Your own suffering is so much more important when...
Both have done a lot of bad but it's undeniable that they're not the same level of bad. Why is it so easy for Americans to think otherwise? Your own suffering is so much more important when grading on a curve? In the words of Morbo the alien: Americans do not yet know the meaning of suffering.
Short bursts throughout my childhood, visiting the ruins of my family after the great leap forward and the cultural revolution. Grew up in Hong Kong which is currently under occupation by China. Yes.
Short bursts throughout my childhood, visiting the ruins of my family after the great leap forward and the cultural revolution. Grew up in Hong Kong which is currently under occupation by China. Yes.
Genocide and slavery in Xinjiang, continually threatening to invade Taiwan, continual harassment and encroachment on the territorial waters of almost every neighbor in the region, and its claim...
Genocide and slavery in Xinjiang, continually threatening to invade Taiwan, continual harassment and encroachment on the territorial waters of almost every neighbor in the region, and its claim that the entire South China Sea belongs to them make for pretty good reasons. And it's not just the U.S. Most of the Western world as well as China's neighbors are starting to take actions to "de-risk" too.
People often forget the digestion of Tibet as well. The CCP likes to use the rhetoric of anti-colonialism against the west to criticize their global influence while being a colonial power...
People often forget the digestion of Tibet as well.
The CCP likes to use the rhetoric of anti-colonialism against the west to criticize their global influence while being a colonial power themselves, using both violence and debt colonialism to get what they want.
While OP is implying otherwise, I don't think the US is doing this "on behalf of the whole planet". They're doing it on behalf of themselves as basically every nation always has. That said, china...
While OP is implying otherwise, I don't think the US is doing this "on behalf of the whole planet". They're doing it on behalf of themselves as basically every nation always has.
That said, china is a major player and certainly has very different views than what the status quo is, and they don't seem content to just sit and keep that in their borders (again, not like plenty of other nations aren't the same).
They have the economic power to influence most of the world at this point (both on the supplying of cheap labor AND being a massive emerging middle class market). And that's before we get into the Belt and Road initiative and the various effects that's had (both positive and negative for just about everyone involved).
They are one of the few major military powers in the world and not shy about using it to expand their influence/bully other nations.
They're a major polluter/environmental threat just by default due to the size of their population, but also by virtue of a culture that doesn't seem to care much it. Plastic, emissions, and fishing being quite large ones that affect more than just their country.
These are just some of the major issues that affect other nations. Internally there's a bunch more going on culture wise that certainly clashes with western views and that's before you get into the possible genocide of ethnic minorities (although I don't think other nations functionally care about that).
I think the interesting thing to see is that the west has, for quite a long time now, had global influence on culture and the norms that are set. China might up-heave that, and they have some very different views on what is/isn't acceptable in some cases. Not sure how people are going to feel about all their media stripping out any sort of LBGTQ content if they finally develop primarily for china instead of in duality.
China has been bringing in other Americans to try to do an end-around into influence in America and they've been treating them like dignitaries. Henry Kissinger (100 years old), Bill Gates, Elon...
China has been bringing in other Americans to try to do an end-around into influence in America and they've been treating them like dignitaries. Henry Kissinger (100 years old), Bill Gates, Elon Musk, etc. Bill Gates even posed for photos while smiling and shaking Xinnie the Pooh's hand. I thought he was trying to act like he was a good dude!
While I think there is more of a moral center to Gates in comparison to say Musk, Gates absolutely has a world view which respects and finds value in the authority of nation states. So it doesn't...
I thought he was trying to act like he was a good dude!
While I think there is more of a moral center to Gates in comparison to say Musk, Gates absolutely has a world view which respects and finds value in the authority of nation states. So it doesn't surprise me he would be cozy with any world leader let alone Xi Jinping.
Agreed. Pre election I was very skeptical of Biden because Trump was finally anti China and despite literally all other issues I considered it important enough to be a lean voter because I just...
Agreed. Pre election I was very skeptical of Biden because Trump was finally anti China and despite literally all other issues I considered it important enough to be a lean voter because I just expected Biden to "free trade policy" same old crap despite promises otherwise.
I actually didn't vote because I was so unsure of which was better in this respect.
But Biden has been a total hawk and far far more effective than Trump ever was on dealing with China and has earned a very solid confident vote for me next time around.
I'm a little surprised voters like you exist though, I am glad to hear which side you ultimately are coming down on. I also was less hostile to Trump's view of China but disliked his other aspects...
I'm a little surprised voters like you exist though, I am glad to hear which side you ultimately are coming down on. I also was less hostile to Trump's view of China but disliked his other aspects so much I would have voted for nearly anyone over him.
Interestingly though this is bigger than any one president. The US has been disentangling from the Chinese economy and posturing against China since at least the Obama years if not earlier. The failed TPP initiative is what originally tipped me off that the US was reorienting its geopolitics in the region.
I was actually super pro TPP, because it was a counter to China as well. That said I agree. The fact it failed though was a sign to come for an incredibly populist and trade hostile America, and...
I was actually super pro TPP, because it was a counter to China as well.
That said I agree. The fact it failed though was a sign to come for an incredibly populist and trade hostile America, and to be frank, I think it's the better direction.
Followup: Rishi Sunak weighs following Joe Biden on curbing tech investment in China Archive Don't currently have the time to write at length on the subject, but the extremely limited and targeted...
Don't currently have the time to write at length on the subject, but the extremely limited and targeted nature of the restrictions seems to be a useful approach. While focusing on key areas for security where the US has a vested interest in maintaining its technological lead in those areas over China, they likely aren't sweeping enough to highly damage efforts for top-level engagement between Biden and Xi. The diplomatic repercussions of Biden's upcoming update of semiconductor export controls will remain to be seen.
I'll see if I can look at this issue more in depth when I'm less busy, so its possible that I've missed something and come to erroneous conclusions, but this seems like a useful policy by the US.
The link labeled 'Archive' in the comments will allow you to read the article. This is generally standard practice for paywalled articles on Tildes FYI
The link labeled 'Archive' in the comments will allow you to read the article. This is generally standard practice for paywalled articles on Tildes FYI
I have been pleasantly surprised at how hard in the paint Biden has gone against the CCP. We seem to have finally woken to the fact that China must be contained for the good of the rest of the world.
Could you elaborate more on this? I don't understand exactly why China "must be contained". I'm also unsure why the USA should be making a decision on behalf of the whole planet.
Because China is a fascist state currently trying to genocide it's own people and does not seem to respect the sovereignty of many of it's neighbors.
The US is the world's largest economy, military, and China's largest trading partner, and thus any action taken to contain China without the support of the United States would be futile.
I mean
"Because China is a fascist state currently trying to genocide it's own people and does not seem to respect the sovereignty of many of it's neighbors."
If you change China for the US the statement still makes quite a bit sense. I want to clarify that I'm not defending China, but instead saying that both the US and Chinese governments are pretty bad on a national and international scale. Yes the US is not literally genociding it's own people but the US has been the cause to many many unnecessary wars (genociding other people), and also a homelessness and drug epidemic within their borders that they haven't really addressed, as well as being the 4th in worst wealth inequality in the world and no health care (in a very abstract way the American government let's their people die).
Again, I am not pro Chinese government but rather anti- both the Chinese and the American governments. I think neither china nor the US should ever speak on behalf of the whole planet, I think letting any country do so is ignorance on how complex different world ideologies and cultures are.
America doesn't have free healthcare, but we do have subsidized health insurance and a mandate that hospitals must provide care to patients regardless of their ability to pay. Healthcare can send people into debt, but it's not going to outright kill anyone, and it is possible to just ignore the medical debt.
As for sovereignty, the US has recently invaded Iraq, which was another brutal dictatorship in the process of genociding it's own people. Afghanistan, which was ruled by the Taliban and was sheltering In Laden after 9/11, and we dropped some bombs on Libya, which was yet another brutal dictatorship in the process of genociding it's own people. Also Serbia, which again, genocide.
Like there's a pattern there, if you don't blatantly provoke the US or start trying to genocide someone, we're not going to invade or bomb you. Yes, this was not the case in the 50's-70's, and even the 80's to a smaller degree. But it isn't the 50's anymore, it's not even the 80's anymore.
Obviously the United States is not perfect, and it could potentially get worse, but it has systems that could also allow it to get better.
China doesn't really have a future way to get better. The recent changes to their constitution (well not so recent anymore) basically make not annexing Taiwan eventually unconstitutional. They've continued their attempts to claim the South China Sea, and continued their suppression of dissidents in Hong Kong.
It isn't a matter of the US being perfect and deserving to rule the world, it's a matter of no other power being capable of matching China. It would be great if every nation would just respect their neighbors and citizens, but that isn't going to happen on it's own, so as long as China has a large military and expansionist policy, and no other power in the region is capable of matching them, we will need the United States military.
My friend, a bad cold is poor for one's health, while cancer is also bad for one's health. Botu require rest and healthcare but to think they are the same degree of bad is to give one too much of a free pass. Hint, in one of these countries what you have just said is not subject to lifetime imprisonment.
China commits atrocities on its own people, while the United States exports them to other countries, typically via wars and arranging coups. I don't believe it's unfair to say they are similar levels of terrible.
There are many American men and women that have whistleblowed American atrocities and crimes that have had to flee the US to avoid unfair legal persecution, and sadly many that didn't get to flee. In my opinion both governments are a cancer.
Both have done a lot of bad but it's undeniable that they're not the same level of bad. Why is it so easy for Americans to think otherwise? Your own suffering is so much more important when grading on a curve? In the words of Morbo the alien: Americans do not yet know the meaning of suffering.
[Many more words redacted]
Honestly asking, have you lived in China?
Short bursts throughout my childhood, visiting the ruins of my family after the great leap forward and the cultural revolution. Grew up in Hong Kong which is currently under occupation by China. Yes.
Genocide and slavery in Xinjiang, continually threatening to invade Taiwan, continual harassment and encroachment on the territorial waters of almost every neighbor in the region, and its claim that the entire South China Sea belongs to them make for pretty good reasons. And it's not just the U.S. Most of the Western world as well as China's neighbors are starting to take actions to "de-risk" too.
People often forget the digestion of Tibet as well.
The CCP likes to use the rhetoric of anti-colonialism against the west to criticize their global influence while being a colonial power themselves, using both violence and debt colonialism to get what they want.
And southern Mongolia......
They have the economic power to influence most of the world at this point (both on the supplying of cheap labor AND being a massive emerging middle class market). And that's before we get into the Belt and Road initiative and the various effects that's had (both positive and negative for just about everyone involved).
They are one of the few major military powers in the world and not shy about using it to expand their influence/bully other nations.
They're a major polluter/environmental threat just by default due to the size of their population, but also by virtue of a culture that doesn't seem to care much it. Plastic, emissions, and fishing being quite large ones that affect more than just their country.
These are just some of the major issues that affect other nations. Internally there's a bunch more going on culture wise that certainly clashes with western views and that's before you get into the possible genocide of ethnic minorities (although I don't think other nations functionally care about that).
I think the interesting thing to see is that the west has, for quite a long time now, had global influence on culture and the norms that are set. China might up-heave that, and they have some very different views on what is/isn't acceptable in some cases. Not sure how people are going to feel about all their media stripping out any sort of LBGTQ content if they finally develop primarily for china instead of in duality.
China has been bringing in other Americans to try to do an end-around into influence in America and they've been treating them like dignitaries. Henry Kissinger (100 years old), Bill Gates, Elon Musk, etc. Bill Gates even posed for photos while smiling and shaking Xinnie the Pooh's hand. I thought he was trying to act like he was a good dude!
While I think there is more of a moral center to Gates in comparison to say Musk, Gates absolutely has a world view which respects and finds value in the authority of nation states. So it doesn't surprise me he would be cozy with any world leader let alone Xi Jinping.
Agreed. Pre election I was very skeptical of Biden because Trump was finally anti China and despite literally all other issues I considered it important enough to be a lean voter because I just expected Biden to "free trade policy" same old crap despite promises otherwise.
I actually didn't vote because I was so unsure of which was better in this respect.
But Biden has been a total hawk and far far more effective than Trump ever was on dealing with China and has earned a very solid confident vote for me next time around.
I'm a little surprised voters like you exist though, I am glad to hear which side you ultimately are coming down on. I also was less hostile to Trump's view of China but disliked his other aspects so much I would have voted for nearly anyone over him.
Interestingly though this is bigger than any one president. The US has been disentangling from the Chinese economy and posturing against China since at least the Obama years if not earlier. The failed TPP initiative is what originally tipped me off that the US was reorienting its geopolitics in the region.
I was actually super pro TPP, because it was a counter to China as well.
That said I agree. The fact it failed though was a sign to come for an incredibly populist and trade hostile America, and to be frank, I think it's the better direction.
Do you... do you realize how horrible this sentence sounds?
Followup:
Rishi Sunak weighs following Joe Biden on curbing tech investment in China
Archive
Don't currently have the time to write at length on the subject, but the extremely limited and targeted nature of the restrictions seems to be a useful approach. While focusing on key areas for security where the US has a vested interest in maintaining its technological lead in those areas over China, they likely aren't sweeping enough to highly damage efforts for top-level engagement between Biden and Xi. The diplomatic repercussions of Biden's upcoming update of semiconductor export controls will remain to be seen.
I'll see if I can look at this issue more in depth when I'm less busy, so its possible that I've missed something and come to erroneous conclusions, but this seems like a useful policy by the US.
Archive
It's a paywalled article ...
The link labeled 'Archive' in the comments will allow you to read the article. This is generally standard practice for paywalled articles on Tildes FYI