22 votes

Israeli spyware firm NSO demands “urgent” meeting with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken amid Gaza war lobbying effort

18 comments

  1. [18]
    DefiantEmbassy
    Link
    Just read any one of CitizenLab’s groundbreaking reporting on these slimeballs. Their spyware was even found on Khashoggi’s fiance’s phone. I’m all for nuance in the Middle East, but fuck these...

    Just read any one of CitizenLab’s groundbreaking reporting on these slimeballs. Their spyware was even found on Khashoggi’s fiance’s phone.

    I’m all for nuance in the Middle East, but fuck these pricks.

    41 votes
    1. [17]
      pyeri
      Link Parent
      With all that mind blowing spying technology, they couldn't detect those low-tech hamas terrorists that came to attack on 7th October. I don't think their spying is being targeted at where it's...

      With all that mind blowing spying technology, they couldn't detect those low-tech hamas terrorists that came to attack on 7th October. I don't think their spying is being targeted at where it's supposed to be targeted.

      19 votes
      1. [12]
        th0mcat
        Link Parent
        I think it's working exactly as intended. https://archive.ph/H8LSL#selection-1139.0-1147.313 https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

        I think it's working exactly as intended.

        https://archive.ph/H8LSL#selection-1139.0-1147.313

        https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

        Hamas as partner

        Effectively, Netanyahu’s entire worldview collapsed over the course of a single day. He was convinced that he could make deals with corrupt Arab tyrants while ignoring the cornerstone of the Arab-Jewish conflict, the Palestinians. His life’s work was to turn the ship of state from the course steered by his predecessors, from Yitzhak Rabin to Ehud Olmert, and make the two-state solution impossible. En route to this goal, he found a partner in Hamas.

        “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” he told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

        30 votes
        1. [11]
          R3qn65
          Link Parent
          The implication that the Israelis intentionally allowed the 8 October attacks is just as ridiculous as the implication that the US secretly did 9/11.

          With all that mind blowing spying technology, they couldn't detect those low-tech hamas terrorists that came to attack on 7th October. I don't think their spying is being targeted at where it's supposed to be targeted.

          I think it's working exactly as intended

          The implication that the Israelis intentionally allowed the 8 October attacks is just as ridiculous as the implication that the US secretly did 9/11.

          20 votes
          1. [3]
            Felicity
            Link Parent
            Intentionally, no. But for a country that has already gone through a surprise attack not too dissimilar to this one, it was expected that we'd be more informed. Information is coming out that the...

            Intentionally, no. But for a country that has already gone through a surprise attack not too dissimilar to this one, it was expected that we'd be more informed. Information is coming out that the (exclusively female) border surveillance unit has been warning their officers about an attack, only to be told to knock it off. In another case, two (again, female) 8200 officers warned their superiors and were told that they're "delusional".

            I don't think I need to point out the common factor here, but it shows that the IDF was clearly not taking the threat seriously at the higher levels of command, including governmental. The argument that instead of selling spyware to dictatorships, Israel could have turned its spyware effort towards Gaza is true, and it becomes either one of the worst governmental failures in Israel's history, or a horrific corruption scandal. I don't find it the same at all as 9/11, because there aren't any credible non-conspiratorial reports that the US knew about it beforehand.

            My service was also related to border surveillance so I know first-hand that the girls in charge of these cameras are never taken seriously. A lot of them stop early because of the mental toll that they have to deal with, both because they're supposed to be in charge that something like the 07/10 attack never happens, and because when they warn their superiors they get scoffed at.

            All of this to say, there are deep rooted issues in Israel that basically implicate the IDF and by extension the Israeli government in being complacent. There is no excuse imaginable that can answer for the disregard towards their own intelligence.

            33 votes
            1. R3qn65
              Link Parent
              Totally. There's no question that it was a massive failure. What I took umbrage with was the suggestion that the failure was intentional.

              Totally. There's no question that it was a massive failure. What I took umbrage with was the suggestion that the failure was intentional.

              16 votes
            2. vord
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Here you go. August 6th in particular. I'm inclined to agree that the USA didn't do a false flag op. But Bush 2/Cheney would undoubtably have been a more sympathetic ear to one than Kennedy was....

              because there aren't any credible non-conspiratorial reports that the US knew about it beforehand.

              Here you go. August 6th in particular. I'm inclined to agree that the USA didn't do a false flag op.

              But Bush 2/Cheney would undoubtably have been a more sympathetic ear to one than Kennedy was. Because by that point it was already well-established that W was an illegitimate president with abysmally low approval ratings. The subsequent nationalism and wars catapulted him from meandering idiot president to a 2-term hero. If not for 9/11 Bush 2 would have been another 1-term footnote president left behind in the dustbin of history.

              It's a hell of a coincidence, and I wouldn't be surprised if 50 years from now proof comes out that someone was pushing that the intelligence was not reliable. I've seen nothing but sleezeball two-face behavior out of the Republican party since I was born, and I wouldn't put it past them to ignore intel to "see what happens."

              11 votes
          2. [5]
            Pepetto
            Link Parent
            My read of th0mcat's comment is that he meant the spying is meant for political opponent and activist (internal citizen), not for external threat which they thought were under control because they...

            My read of th0mcat's comment is that he meant the spying is meant for political opponent and activist (internal citizen), not for external threat which they thought were under control because they kind of benefitted politically from their existence and had some arrangement with the leaders.
            I didn't understand it as implying any kind of conspiracy theory. Let's try to interpret each other charitably instead of jumping at each other's throat...

            14 votes
            1. [4]
              R3qn65
              Link Parent
              I appreciate your very charitable read of the situation.

              I appreciate your very charitable read of the situation.

              2 votes
              1. [3]
                Pepetto
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                (Yeah, that was a poorly veiled vertue signaling attempt on my part ) Your comment seems like sarcasm. If so, while funny, i do not think it brings much to the conversation, reguardless how...

                (Yeah, that was a poorly veiled vertue signaling attempt on my part )
                Your comment seems like sarcasm. If so, while funny, i do not think it brings much to the conversation, reguardless how charitable you think I think I am.

                4 votes
                1. R3qn65
                  (edited )
                  Link Parent
                  No, it wasn't sarcastic. The first guy says, to paraphrase, "Israel failed to detect the attacks, I think they're spying on the wrong people." The second guy says "everything is working according...

                  No, it wasn't sarcastic. The first guy says, to paraphrase, "Israel failed to detect the attacks, I think they're spying on the wrong people." The second guy says "everything is working according to plan" and posts links accusing the Israeli PM of working with Hamas. Note that he used the present tense ("working") and not the past tense ("well, it was working until...").

                  To me, it seems pretty clear that based on what the guy actually said he is implying that Israel let the attacks happen. I think your interpretation is a bit of a leap, as it requires a lot of explanation that the guy didn't actually say. But I meant it when I said that I thought your interpretation was very charitable and I think it speaks well of you, even if I don't agree at all that that's what the guy was saying.

                  And here's the reason I reacted decisively: a reply to th0mcat's post, in this thread.

                  This "war" has been a very convenient distraction from Netanyahu's flagging support. One has to ask themselves, who was getting what they want by allowing the attack to happen.

                  5 votes
                2. [2]
                  Comment deleted by author
                  Link Parent
                  1. Pepetto
                    Link Parent
                    Well, i was being serious. Rereading my comment, one summary could be "here is my different read of th0mcat, we should be charitable when decifering meaning from others" which heavely implies "be...

                    Well, i was being serious.
                    Rereading my comment, one summary could be "here is my different read of th0mcat, we should be charitable when decifering meaning from others" which heavely implies "be more charitable, like me! Look how charitable I am" in a way which can be fairly offputting.
                    I easely get lost in obsessive rumination about my and other's intent and how this intent can be perceived, so I jumped at shadows and ( isn't that ironic) assumed R3qn65 was mocking my comment. And couldn't rule out if my comment deserved a bit of mocking...
                    (So lesson here is intent is super hard to discern, and our own assumption and fears tend to pollute our interpretation, even when we know they do.)
                    Sorry for the confusion. :(

                    1 vote
          3. [2]
            th0mcat
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            I didn't want to necro this thread because of various reasons, but I just read this NYTimes article that says Israel knew. Now, to directly respond to your comment. Do I think thousands of people...

            I didn't want to necro this thread because of various reasons, but I just read this NYTimes article that says Israel knew.

            Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

            The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.

            Now, to directly respond to your comment.

            The implication that the Israelis intentionally allowed the 8 October attacks is just as ridiculous as the implication that the US secretly did 9/11.

            Do I think thousands of people in the United States federal government conspired to blow up the WTC in a controlled demolition and crashed 2 more planes (one of them into the Pentagon)? No.

            Do I think a couple/small group of high-functioning sociopaths could have front-ran a puppet into the highest office in the country, and when presented with information a terrorist attack was imminent with some specifics allowed it to go ignored in the hopes they could make themselves and their friends in the military industrial complex obscenely rich? With everything we have collectively learned about our government's foreign policy and role in regime change in the 20th century, yes, I absolutely believe that is possible.

            6 votes
            1. R3qn65
              Link Parent
              Very well. I will respond in the thread you just created.

              Very well. I will respond in the thread you just created.

      2. [2]
        raccoona_nongrata
        Link Parent
        They didn't even need the spytech, the Egyptians flat out warned them it was coming. This "war" has been a very convenient distraction from Netanyahu's flagging support. One has to ask themselves,...

        They didn't even need the spytech, the Egyptians flat out warned them it was coming.

        This "war" has been a very convenient distraction from Netanyahu's flagging support. One has to ask themselves, who was getting what they want by allowing the attack to happen.

        6 votes
        1. NaraVara
          Link Parent
          Definitely not the Likudniks, being as how their approval ratings are now so bad that they are likely finished as a party for a generation. We need to dispense with the idea that these guys are...

          Definitely not the Likudniks, being as how their approval ratings are now so bad that they are likely finished as a party for a generation.

          We need to dispense with the idea that these guys are some sort of Xanatos-level masterminds. They’re fucking morons. They get where they are by basically holding important things hostage, in Netanyahu’s case it’s the state of Israel. It doesn’t take any special cleverness to do this, just an especially shameless and myopic kind of ruthlessness.

          8 votes
      3. mild_takes
        Link Parent
        They were well organized and trained and technology isn't magic. Besides that, NSO sells the software but its up to the buyer to figure out who to spy on and how to parse that intel.

        low-tech hamas terrorists

        They were well organized and trained and technology isn't magic. Besides that, NSO sells the software but its up to the buyer to figure out who to spy on and how to parse that intel.

        4 votes
      4. arghdos
        Link Parent
        It’s not even trying to be targeted if your business model is “sell it to any old dictator” (second @DefiantEmbassy’s recommendation) That’s just leaning into oppression

        It’s not even trying to be targeted if your business model is “sell it to any old dictator” (second @DefiantEmbassy’s recommendation) That’s just leaning into oppression

        1 vote