I, like many people, have been frustrated by Fandom as a wiki host for years now. I have an extension to redirect me to wiki.gg if one exists for a particular fandom, but not every community has...
I, like many people, have been frustrated by Fandom as a wiki host for years now. I have an extension to redirect me to wiki.gg if one exists for a particular fandom, but not every community has the ability to start a second wiki and move to it. OSRS and Minecraft have consistently had the best wikis that I've used, and they're both created by the authors of this post.
I really like the analysis done here to explain why creating a second wiki is so challenging. It mostly boils down to the same network effects that keep people on the same social media sites like Twitter and Facebook, but with the added difficulty of getting around search engine weights. Seeing them acknowledge that they could become the big players and possibly the villains in the future is also refreshing, as is their plan for allowing communities to move away if they feel the need.
The one I use is specifically for wiki.gg - wiki.gg Redirect. This one looks better because it has more options though, so I might check it out. I just didn't want to post an extra link in the...
The one I use is specifically for wiki.gg - wiki.gg Redirect. This one looks better because it has more options though, so I might check it out. I just didn't want to post an extra link in the comment.
As a person always outcast in life, nothing makes me sadder than the reasoning of "it's popular because its popular". There's truth there, but a very depressing one for those who also kept hearing...
As a person always outcast in life, nothing makes me sadder than the reasoning of "it's popular because its popular". There's truth there, but a very depressing one for those who also kept hearing stuff like "work hard and you'll succeed". I guess the game really was rigged from the start.
I've used the Runescape Wiki for more than 15 years, and the team that runs it is a marvel. The amount of detail in the Runescape Wiki is absolutely insane - - you can find every possible quest...
I've used the Runescape Wiki for more than 15 years, and the team that runs it is a marvel. The amount of detail in the Runescape Wiki is absolutely insane - - you can find every possible quest dialogs choice, every NPC, every item and a list of every item that it can be crafted into, the list goes on. All with a very small core team who have spent thousands of hours making it an incredible resource, and then tens of thousands of people who spent a few minutes or hours lending a hand.
They do fairly open governance on the Weird Gloop wiki, and you can see literal discussions on how run as few ads as possible to keep the sites running and the sysadmins paid.
Jagex (the company that develops Runescape) also deserves some props here. They provided the startup capital to the original move of the Runescape and 2007scape wikis. The folks who made this post used that capital to fund the creation of Weird Group Ltd. The community jumped in immediately. The Runescape and 2007scape subreddits started automatically removing links to the Fandom versions and adding tools that would replace them with links to the independent wiki, and people built browser extensions to hide the Fandom wikis from search results.
I hope this helps more wikis fork. I really do wish Memory Alpha would; it's the Fandom wiki I use the most, and the Fandom stuff really is gross to navigate around.
15 years geez has it really been that long? To me the osrs wiki is a hallmark of the new era, when I stopped playing for a bit I was still using runeHQ and when I came back for osrs launch the...
15 years geez has it really been that long?
To me the osrs wiki is a hallmark of the new era, when I stopped playing for a bit I was still using runeHQ and when I came back for osrs launch the wiki was the place to go.
Yeah, it has been. Back in 2009, I was still using Sal's and Tip.it a lot, and I remember preferring the quest guides on Sal's, but the Runescape Wiki was something that was already coming up in...
Yeah, it has been. Back in 2009, I was still using Sal's and Tip.it a lot, and I remember preferring the quest guides on Sal's, but the Runescape Wiki was something that was already coming up in searches.
We're all getting old is the only conclusion to reach, unfortunately.
Is there some reason to believe that as this website grows it wouldn't just become as bad as fandom? I use an ad blocker, so the only time it ever becomes an issue is when I pull up the website in...
Is there some reason to believe that as this website grows it wouldn't just become as bad as fandom? I use an ad blocker, so the only time it ever becomes an issue is when I pull up the website in the Steam browser and that's still pretty rare. Maybe Gabe is on Tildes and will add an ad blocker to their Steam browser. That would be pretty great.
If you or anyone else is really interested in blocking ads in Steam browser, a network/DNS based ad-blocker (nextDNS, PiHole, other options) is one way to accomplish that. That said, the various...
If you or anyone else is really interested in blocking ads in Steam browser, a network/DNS based ad-blocker (nextDNS, PiHole, other options) is one way to accomplish that. That said, the various options require anywhere from a lot to a moderate amount of tech knowledge and understanding of how to do it and the implications of doing it. It is nice to be able to block ads at the network level and not get them on any device in the house (or on cellular data, since i run the nextDNS app there)
As far as growth, it's all about how the owners of wiki.gg treat it. Fandom owners did not care at all, and made the ads incredibly intrusive, unrelated, inappropriate, and resource-intensive (videos, etc). They also did a number of other things (awful UI, lack of features/customization, irrelevant internal marketing, etc). They just made the site awful to use. It is possible for wiki.gg (and other alternative wiki services) to grow AND also treat readers better. In our society, yes, there's always the likelihood that it gets bought out, or owners sell out, or it enshittifies in some way, but that's not a guarantee.
I should mention that this post - and the OSRS, Minecraft, and LoL wikis - is run by WeirdGloop, which is a different organization from wiki.gg. I just mentioned wiki.gg because it's been the...
I should mention that this post - and the OSRS, Minecraft, and LoL wikis - is run by WeirdGloop, which is a different organization from wiki.gg. I just mentioned wiki.gg because it's been the primary alternative that I've been aware of, and because of the extension I use.
Yeah, I went back and edited my post to reflect "other alternatives" too. (wiki.gg is the main one I use instead of Fandom anytime I need a game wiki). And I specifically like that fact too- and...
Yeah, I went back and edited my post to reflect "other alternatives" too. (wiki.gg is the main one I use instead of Fandom anytime I need a game wiki).
And I specifically like that fact too- and even think it's better than there are multiple alternatives/wiki sources. More wikis hosted across the web should be a thing. Especially ones that are not user hostile. Better to not centralize it all under one wiki host in case they go the Fandom route
DNS based adblock triggers the corporate laptops at my home something fierce, so ymmv. There's probably a workaround for this that I haven't bothered looking for yet because mostly an in-browser...
DNS based adblock triggers the corporate laptops at my home something fierce, so ymmv. There's probably a workaround for this that I haven't bothered looking for yet because mostly an in-browser add-on is enough.
In my case, faith in the people running it. They donated thousands of hours to the Runescape Wiki when it was Wikia (later renamed to Fandom) hosted. They listen to feedback and cared deeply about...
In my case, faith in the people running it. They donated thousands of hours to the Runescape Wiki when it was Wikia (later renamed to Fandom) hosted. They listen to feedback and cared deeply about the community before money was ever involved. I trust them as stewards.
Yes, this feels like we got screwed over by putting all our eggs in one basket, and are responding by moving all of the eggs into another basket. But it seems like they're also encouraging wikis...
Yes, this feels like we got screwed over by putting all our eggs in one basket, and are responding by moving all of the eggs into another basket.
But it seems like they're also encouraging wikis to find other hosts than just them, literally anyone who's not Fandom:
As far as where you host it…there’s plenty of decent options. Wiki hosting is not nearly as hard as Fandom makes it out to be – for example, if you’re the Path of Exile devs and you already host a bunch of PHP web stuff, then hosting the wiki yourself is objectively a really good option.
Sometimes Weird Gloop will be the good option for your situation, and being totally honest, sometimes it won’t be. And that’s okay! I want to help communities get away from Fandom, regardless of who’s running the servers.
Otherwise, their assurance for why they won't become just as bad is basically "we promise", but well, how much can they really do to make people trust them other than pointing at their good track record?
There’s another reason to move away from fandom wiki that I was surprised to see wasn’t mentioned here: load time. At home on a modern day internet connection, I might not notice the difference in...
There’s another reason to move away from fandom wiki that I was surprised to see wasn’t mentioned here: load time.
At home on a modern day internet connection, I might not notice the difference in time it takes to load a Fandom webpage vs webpages on other wikis (having ad-block enabled probably helps too). But playing my steam deck away from home, looking things up on my phone? Absolutely. Fandom isn’t just loading plain text and a couple images. It’s loading like 20 different ads and a video at the same time as it loads whatever content you actually want. If you don’t have a good signal, it’s almost unusable. What’s worse is that I have an older phone with a small-ish screen and all those ads take up most if not all of my screen, meaning I have to try to dismiss some of the more obtrusive ads without clicking on them before I can see anything after the page finally loads.
I’m extremely glad to see more pushback against Fandom finally happening. For years it felt like every wiki was just bowing down and migrating to Fandom and it was depressing.
I, like many people, have been frustrated by Fandom as a wiki host for years now. I have an extension to redirect me to wiki.gg if one exists for a particular fandom, but not every community has the ability to start a second wiki and move to it. OSRS and Minecraft have consistently had the best wikis that I've used, and they're both created by the authors of this post.
I really like the analysis done here to explain why creating a second wiki is so challenging. It mostly boils down to the same network effects that keep people on the same social media sites like Twitter and Facebook, but with the added difficulty of getting around search engine weights. Seeing them acknowledge that they could become the big players and possibly the villains in the future is also refreshing, as is their plan for allowing communities to move away if they feel the need.
For those who also need this:
https://getindie.wiki/
The one I use is specifically for wiki.gg - wiki.gg Redirect. This one looks better because it has more options though, so I might check it out. I just didn't want to post an extra link in the comment.
As a person always outcast in life, nothing makes me sadder than the reasoning of "it's popular because its popular". There's truth there, but a very depressing one for those who also kept hearing stuff like "work hard and you'll succeed". I guess the game really was rigged from the start.
I've used the Runescape Wiki for more than 15 years, and the team that runs it is a marvel. The amount of detail in the Runescape Wiki is absolutely insane - - you can find every possible quest dialogs choice, every NPC, every item and a list of every item that it can be crafted into, the list goes on. All with a very small core team who have spent thousands of hours making it an incredible resource, and then tens of thousands of people who spent a few minutes or hours lending a hand.
They do fairly open governance on the Weird Gloop wiki, and you can see literal discussions on how run as few ads as possible to keep the sites running and the sysadmins paid.
Jagex (the company that develops Runescape) also deserves some props here. They provided the startup capital to the original move of the Runescape and 2007scape wikis. The folks who made this post used that capital to fund the creation of Weird Group Ltd. The community jumped in immediately. The Runescape and 2007scape subreddits started automatically removing links to the Fandom versions and adding tools that would replace them with links to the independent wiki, and people built browser extensions to hide the Fandom wikis from search results.
I hope this helps more wikis fork. I really do wish Memory Alpha would; it's the Fandom wiki I use the most, and the Fandom stuff really is gross to navigate around.
15 years geez has it really been that long?
To me the osrs wiki is a hallmark of the new era, when I stopped playing for a bit I was still using runeHQ and when I came back for osrs launch the wiki was the place to go.
Yeah, it has been. Back in 2009, I was still using Sal's and Tip.it a lot, and I remember preferring the quest guides on Sal's, but the Runescape Wiki was something that was already coming up in searches.
We're all getting old is the only conclusion to reach, unfortunately.
Is there some reason to believe that as this website grows it wouldn't just become as bad as fandom? I use an ad blocker, so the only time it ever becomes an issue is when I pull up the website in the Steam browser and that's still pretty rare. Maybe Gabe is on Tildes and will add an ad blocker to their Steam browser. That would be pretty great.
If you or anyone else is really interested in blocking ads in Steam browser, a network/DNS based ad-blocker (nextDNS, PiHole, other options) is one way to accomplish that. That said, the various options require anywhere from a lot to a moderate amount of tech knowledge and understanding of how to do it and the implications of doing it. It is nice to be able to block ads at the network level and not get them on any device in the house (or on cellular data, since i run the nextDNS app there)
As far as growth, it's all about how the owners of wiki.gg treat it. Fandom owners did not care at all, and made the ads incredibly intrusive, unrelated, inappropriate, and resource-intensive (videos, etc). They also did a number of other things (awful UI, lack of features/customization, irrelevant internal marketing, etc). They just made the site awful to use. It is possible for wiki.gg (and other alternative wiki services) to grow AND also treat readers better. In our society, yes, there's always the likelihood that it gets bought out, or owners sell out, or it enshittifies in some way, but that's not a guarantee.
I should mention that this post - and the OSRS, Minecraft, and LoL wikis - is run by WeirdGloop, which is a different organization from wiki.gg. I just mentioned wiki.gg because it's been the primary alternative that I've been aware of, and because of the extension I use.
Yeah, I went back and edited my post to reflect "other alternatives" too. (wiki.gg is the main one I use instead of Fandom anytime I need a game wiki).
And I specifically like that fact too- and even think it's better than there are multiple alternatives/wiki sources. More wikis hosted across the web should be a thing. Especially ones that are not user hostile. Better to not centralize it all under one wiki host in case they go the Fandom route
DNS based adblock triggers the corporate laptops at my home something fierce, so ymmv. There's probably a workaround for this that I haven't bothered looking for yet because mostly an in-browser add-on is enough.
In my case, faith in the people running it. They donated thousands of hours to the Runescape Wiki when it was Wikia (later renamed to Fandom) hosted. They listen to feedback and cared deeply about the community before money was ever involved. I trust them as stewards.
Yes, this feels like we got screwed over by putting all our eggs in one basket, and are responding by moving all of the eggs into another basket.
But it seems like they're also encouraging wikis to find other hosts than just them, literally anyone who's not Fandom:
Otherwise, their assurance for why they won't become just as bad is basically "we promise", but well, how much can they really do to make people trust them other than pointing at their good track record?
There’s another reason to move away from fandom wiki that I was surprised to see wasn’t mentioned here: load time.
At home on a modern day internet connection, I might not notice the difference in time it takes to load a Fandom webpage vs webpages on other wikis (having ad-block enabled probably helps too). But playing my steam deck away from home, looking things up on my phone? Absolutely. Fandom isn’t just loading plain text and a couple images. It’s loading like 20 different ads and a video at the same time as it loads whatever content you actually want. If you don’t have a good signal, it’s almost unusable. What’s worse is that I have an older phone with a small-ish screen and all those ads take up most if not all of my screen, meaning I have to try to dismiss some of the more obtrusive ads without clicking on them before I can see anything after the page finally loads.
I’m extremely glad to see more pushback against Fandom finally happening. For years it felt like every wiki was just bowing down and migrating to Fandom and it was depressing.