51 votes

Donald Trump US tariffs would increase laptop prices by $350+, other electronics by as much as 40%

22 comments

  1. [7]
    canekicker
    (edited )
    Link
    Despite how much is out there about how tariffs work, I'm genuinely surprised that people believe tariffs only effect the manufacturer and not the importer. It's baffling and I ran across this...

    Despite how much is out there about how tariffs work, I'm genuinely surprised that people believe tariffs only effect the manufacturer and not the importer. It's baffling and I ran across this clip last week from David Pakman (note, I have no strong opinion Pakman, just vaguely know who he is) explaining to some other person how tarriffs work and the dude in the glasses just is baffled.

    It says so much about MAGA/Trumpian policies which boils down to performative bluster that his fans eat up and fail to question. No one is better at this than Vance who can polish a turd like no other.

    edit : Out of curiosity, I watched most of the full interview with Kelly (a Trump supporter) and as expected from so many Trump supporters, Kelly is woefully ignorant and misinformed. Fortunately unlike some, he's not aggressively ignorant but from the meaningless questions he asks to the lack of understanding about how the government works to his inability to add to this discussion, this was depressing. Credit to him for trying to be receptive to Pakman but for every person like Kelly, there are probably 10 others in the same sphere unwilling to learn and simply hosting podcasts to chase clout.

    35 votes
    1. [2]
      redwall_hp
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      This is also one of the things that greatly exacerbated the Great Depression: the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Some genius decided to heavily tax imports, which lead to two undesirable outcomes:...

      This is also one of the things that greatly exacerbated the Great Depression: the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Some genius decided to heavily tax imports, which lead to two undesirable outcomes:

      • Obviously, the consumer ended up paying a lot more for imported goods. (This leads to high demand and limited supply, so prices go nuts.)
      • Trade partners all started levying retaliatory tariffs and reducing trade with the US. Nobody wants to buy your stuff, and you have less money coming into your economy, and trade starts to break down.
      28 votes
      1. canekicker
        Link Parent
        Exactly, so there's a precedent on this already that already demonstrates this doesn't work well. It's baffling to me, I don't expect everyone , especially MAGA/Trumpers to know the history of...

        Exactly, so there's a precedent on this already that already demonstrates this doesn't work well. It's baffling to me, I don't expect everyone , especially MAGA/Trumpers to know the history of tariffs but there are so many quick explainers that can be reviewed in a few minutes to demonstrate why these tariffs make zero fucking sense. It's such dumb, cult-like thinking that pushes people to just accept these bald face lies at face value.

        12 votes
    2. [3]
      hobbes64
      Link Parent
      It's unlikely that tariffs will do anything way that Trump says he wants, because as usual he only has a rudimentary understanding of things but thinks he's an expert. His stated goals for tariffs...

      It's unlikely that tariffs will do anything way that Trump says he wants, because as usual he only has a rudimentary understanding of things but thinks he's an expert.

      His stated goals for tariffs (according to this earlier article from AP which "sanewashes" and fills in some gaps that Trump didn't exactly say):

      1. Increase American production
      2. Raise money / reduce the deficit
      3. Lower food prices
      4. Subsidize childcare

      #1 - The normal goal of tariffs is to "level the playing field" for local products by making foreign ones too expensive. This will always drive up prices because it interferes with a free market. But it could theoretically cause #1 to happen eventually, after years or even decades while production spools up for demand. Or, we just may have to do without some things.

      #2 is unlikely to happen at all, in fact it would probably do the opposite because we'll have trade wars and the economy will slow down as essential products and services are too expensive

      #3 and #4 don't make any fucking sense at all

      By the way, the whole idea basically undermines any normal strategy that a conservative or a republican would normally have. Which is one more thing that completely baffles me about the support for Trump. The only explanation is that Republicans never gave one single shit about any of their supposed "values", except "I want power and money and no regulations"

      22 votes
      1. [2]
        canekicker
        Link Parent
        That's exactly my point, there isn't a ton of obvious follow up questions with some of these people. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? How does that work? Mass deportation? How does that...

        don't make any fucking sense at all

        That's exactly my point, there isn't a ton of obvious follow up questions with some of these people. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? How does that work? Mass deportation? How does that work? End the Ukraine/Russia conflict? How does that work?

        This, to me, is a fundamental question that so many of his followers imply don't ask themselves. Like I know I'm preaching to the choir but simply asking "how does that work" undercuts so many of Trump's "policy" goals.

        18 votes
        1. smiles134
          Link Parent
          Because it truly doesn't matter how many questions you ask. They'll evade answering, talk about something else, refuse to elaborate on how it will accomplish any of their goals, because reality is...

          Because it truly doesn't matter how many questions you ask. They'll evade answering, talk about something else, refuse to elaborate on how it will accomplish any of their goals, because reality is only something other people live in.

          Trump and his whole crew knows his base is completely brainwashed. They just need to say things that sound appealing and/or rile the base up and it doesn't matter what the outcome is.

          14 votes
    3. DeepThought
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      That whole interview was infuriating. The only upside is that the interviewer (and hopefully people like him) was probably not going to vote.

      That whole interview was infuriating. The only upside is that the interviewer (and hopefully people like him) was probably not going to vote.

      3 votes
  2. [14]
    vczf
    Link
    If electronics suddenly became twice as expensive, regular people will start demanding repairable devices.

    If electronics suddenly became twice as expensive, regular people will start demanding repairable devices.

    14 votes
    1. [3]
      ButteredToast
      Link Parent
      That's one possible outcome, but I believe that it's just as likely that it will force much of the market downward, increasing demand for cheaper, crappier gadgets which are less durable and not...

      That's one possible outcome, but I believe that it's just as likely that it will force much of the market downward, increasing demand for cheaper, crappier gadgets which are less durable and not specced to remain usable for long periods, which would be counterproductive. In this scenario, the remainder of the market is unfazed as that group wasn't price sensitive to begin with.

      34 votes
      1. [2]
        vczf
        Link Parent
        I suspect that the supply chain margins for electronics in China are already thin from fierce internal competition.

        I suspect that the supply chain margins for electronics in China are already thin from fierce internal competition.

        8 votes
        1. ButteredToast
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Margins are indeed thin, which means that further cuts will be made to offset the tariffs. More use of old and/or dodgy components, cheaper chassises, more lax QA, etc. Probably also more...

          Margins are indeed thin, which means that further cuts will be made to offset the tariffs. More use of old and/or dodgy components, cheaper chassises, more lax QA, etc. Probably also more sponsored bloatware/spyware.

          EDIT: Another way I could see costs being cut are through increased usage of problematic labor. It also seems likely to me that for the lower third-to-half of the market, fly-by-night Amazon "brands" like "DGORFEE" would proliferate over established players like Dell with lower prices by way of not needing to offer a warranty or even customer support.

          14 votes
    2. [9]
      qob
      Link Parent
      That would be a rational reaction and therefore very surprising in the current state of politics and public debate.

      That would be a rational reaction and therefore very surprising in the current state of politics and public debate.

      12 votes
      1. [8]
        Eji1700
        Link Parent
        Eh even past states show a sad disregard for repair demand. We've normalized that "repair" just isn't a thing. It's taken decades, but we've got an entire generation of consumers who grew up just...

        Eh even past states show a sad disregard for repair demand.

        We've normalized that "repair" just isn't a thing. It's taken decades, but we've got an entire generation of consumers who grew up just expecting to buy a replacement if something breaks.

        Some of that comes from consumer demands (desiring ergonomics over repairability as things like phones more and more became status symbols or borderline jewelry) and some of it comes from companies obviously understanding that selling a new product is better than repairing an old one for their profitability.

        In short, I agree, we'll probably just get more people buying laptops on "pay as you go" plans than anything else.

        8 votes
        1. [7]
          ButteredToast
          Link Parent
          Part of this I believe has to do with the lead time on repairs, which for some things wasn't great even back when it was the norm to get things repaired. Everything moves at a much faster pace now...

          We've normalized that "repair" just isn't a thing. It's taken decades, but we've got an entire generation of consumers who grew up just expecting to buy a replacement if something breaks.

          Part of this I believe has to do with the lead time on repairs, which for some things wasn't great even back when it was the norm to get things repaired. Everything moves at a much faster pace now than it did back then, and so having to wait more than a day or two to get something fixed can be a real imposition in some situations. Buying new instead of repairing is also usually more convenient and tickles consumerist urges by giving an excuse to upgrade, try a competing model, etc.

          With that in mind, it seems natural that parts and repairs must not only be available and cheaper than buying new, but at least as fast and convenient as buying new as well which is a high bar to clear even for pro-repair companies (e.g. it's probably not practical to achieve for iFixit or Framework).

          9 votes
          1. [3]
            Eji1700
            Link Parent
            Yeah there's a lot of forces working against repair. I just get tired of the "it's all a conspiracy from the large companies!" arguments and try to preempt it, because while they 100% have...

            Yeah there's a lot of forces working against repair. I just get tired of the "it's all a conspiracy from the large companies!" arguments and try to preempt it, because while they 100% have absolutely tried to push for this market, there's absolutely customer desires that helped.

            9 votes
            1. [2]
              turmacar
              Link Parent
              Like anything there's never one cause. Manufacturing techniques play into it as well. If something needs to be assembled by human hands it's going to be at least decently repairable. If it's...

              Like anything there's never one cause. Manufacturing techniques play into it as well. If something needs to be assembled by human hands it's going to be at least decently repairable. If it's snapped together by a one-time assembly process that's been optimized to be as cheap per unit as possible it's not going to be very repairable. At least without added design work that will cost more.

              9 votes
              1. public
                Link Parent
                …and the non-repairable design may be more reliable. It lasts longer before becoming a paperweight than the repairable design would before needing its first major repair.

                …and the non-repairable design may be more reliable. It lasts longer before becoming a paperweight than the repairable design would before needing its first major repair.

                7 votes
          2. [3]
            vord
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            And this is why labor laws need to be standardized worldwide in a global economy. Look at the Libram 5 USA, built in the USA, starts at $2k. The Libram 5 sourced traditionally costs $800. That's a...

            With that in mind, it seems natural that parts and repairs must not only be available and cheaper than buying new, but at least as fast and convenient as buying new as well

            And this is why labor laws need to be standardized worldwide in a global economy. Look at the Libram 5 USA, built in the USA, starts at $2k. The Libram 5 sourced traditionally costs $800. That's a $1,200 difference in what mostly boils down to labor costs and rights.

            If low-end smartphones started at $2k, because all laborers are earning more or less the same wages for same work, paying $300 for a screen repair or a battery replacement looks a lot better.

            Incidentally I've stopped buying new smartphones, only buying used models. Turns out it's a lot easier on the wallet to be behind the curve by 2-4 years. I'm still mad about the forced obsolescence of the Galaxy S5, the greatest phone ever made. I'd like a modernized version of that phone with a USB-C port, a moderate CPU/GPU/RAM upgrade (given that its been 10 years), and no other changes. I want the small form factor, replaceable battery, the headphone jack, the IR blaster, and the microSD slot. It's sad that my decade-old phone can control my new HVAC unit, but not my new phone.

            3 votes
            1. [2]
              PuddleOfKittens
              Link Parent
              IIRC the Librem is a scam, or at least scam-adjacent (see the Louis Rossmann videos). The Fairphone is €800, and is famously verified to not violate anyone's labor rights. The Librem's $1200...
              1. IIRC the Librem is a scam, or at least scam-adjacent (see the Louis Rossmann videos).
              2. The Fairphone is €800, and is famously verified to not violate anyone's labor rights. The Librem's $1200 difference therefore includes other costs as well.
              3. Librem is a startup, you can expect to pay startup costs (I.e. manufactured goods cost more on the small scale and when production is first starting up, both of which are the case for a startup but not for the Galaxy S5 etc).
              2 votes
              1. vord
                Link Parent
                To be clear, my point was indicitive of the cost difference more than the quality of given company. The '2x or more' holds pretty consistent for many USA-based goods. The Fairphone is also putting...

                To be clear, my point was indicitive of the cost difference more than the quality of given company. The '2x or more' holds pretty consistent for many USA-based goods.

                The Fairphone is also putting their thumb on the scale a bit.

                Every Fairphone 5 directly supports the people who made it with a $2.63 living wage bonus.

                That's a far cry from paying EU wages.

                2 votes
    3. PuddleOfKittens
      Link Parent
      Electronics can't become twice as expensive - the average laptop might be $500+ but there are $200 laptops out there. Ditto for phones, tablets etc.

      Electronics can't become twice as expensive - the average laptop might be $500+ but there are $200 laptops out there. Ditto for phones, tablets etc.

  3. wundumguy
    Link
    How about the fact that tariffs make up a negligible part of the government's income. It almost doesn't matter. 80B of 4.47T in revenue. That's 1.78% of our country's revenue...

    How about the fact that tariffs make up a negligible part of the government's income. It almost doesn't matter. 80B of 4.47T in revenue. That's 1.78% of our country's revenue

    https://youtu.be/aQoh9jdRZPM?t=605&si=IeerCnrcZvZ7l_fP

    So this just punishes us really