Despite how much is out there about how tariffs work, I'm genuinely surprised that people believe tariffs only effect the manufacturer and not the importer. It's baffling and I ran across this...
Despite how much is out there about how tariffs work, I'm genuinely surprised that people believe tariffs only effect the manufacturer and not the importer. It's baffling and I ran across this clip last week from David Pakman (note, I have no strong opinion Pakman, just vaguely know who he is) explaining to some other person how tarriffs work and the dude in the glasses just is baffled.
It says so much about MAGA/Trumpian policies which boils down to performative bluster that his fans eat up and fail to question. No one is better at this than Vance who can polish a turd like no other.
This is also one of the things that greatly exacerbated the Great Depression: the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Some genius decided to heavily tax imports, which lead to two undesirable outcomes:...
This is also one of the things that greatly exacerbated the Great Depression: the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Some genius decided to heavily tax imports, which lead to two undesirable outcomes:
Obviously, the consumer ended up paying a lot more for imported goods. (This leads to high demand and limited supply, so prices go nuts.)
Trade partners all started levying retaliatory tariffs and reducing trade with the US. Nobody wants to buy your stuff, and you have less money coming into your economy, and trade starts to break down.
Exactly, so there's a precedent on this already that already demonstrates this doesn't work well. It's baffling to me, I don't expect everyone , especially MAGA/Trumpers to know the history of...
Exactly, so there's a precedent on this already that already demonstrates this doesn't work well. It's baffling to me, I don't expect everyone , especially MAGA/Trumpers to know the history of tariffs but there are so many quick explainers that can be reviewed in a few minutes to demonstrate why these tariffs make zero fucking sense. It's such dumb, cult-like thinking that pushes people to just accept these bald face lies at face value.
It's unlikely that tariffs will do anything way that Trump says he wants, because as usual he only has a rudimentary understanding of things but thinks he's an expert. His stated goals for tariffs...
It's unlikely that tariffs will do anything way that Trump says he wants, because as usual he only has a rudimentary understanding of things but thinks he's an expert.
His stated goals for tariffs (according to this earlier article from AP which "sanewashes" and fills in some gaps that Trump didn't exactly say):
Increase American production
Raise money / reduce the deficit
Lower food prices
Subsidize childcare
#1 - The normal goal of tariffs is to "level the playing field" for local products by making foreign ones too expensive. This will always drive up prices because it interferes with a free market. But it could theoretically cause #1 to happen eventually, after years or even decades while production spools up for demand. Or, we just may have to do without some things.
#2 is unlikely to happen at all, in fact it would probably do the opposite because we'll have trade wars and the economy will slow down as essential products and services are too expensive
#3 and #4 don't make any fucking sense at all
By the way, the whole idea basically undermines any normal strategy that a conservative or a republican would normally have. Which is one more thing that completely baffles me about the support for Trump. The only explanation is that Republicans never gave one single shit about any of their supposed "values", except "I want power and money and no regulations"
That's exactly my point, there isn't a ton of obvious follow up questions with some of these people. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? How does that work? Mass deportation? How does that...
don't make any fucking sense at all
That's exactly my point, there isn't a ton of obvious follow up questions with some of these people. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? How does that work? Mass deportation? How does that work? End the Ukraine/Russia conflict? How does that work?
This, to me, is a fundamental question that so many of his followers imply don't ask themselves. Like I know I'm preaching to the choir but simply asking "how does that work" undercuts so many of Trump's "policy" goals.
That's one possible outcome, but I believe that it's just as likely that it will force much of the market downward, increasing demand for cheaper, crappier gadgets which are less durable and not...
That's one possible outcome, but I believe that it's just as likely that it will force much of the market downward, increasing demand for cheaper, crappier gadgets which are less durable and not specced to remain usable for long periods, which would be counterproductive. In this scenario, the remainder of the market is unfazed as that group wasn't price sensitive to begin with.
Margins are indeed thin, which means that further cuts will be made to offset the tariffs. More use of old and/or dodgy components, cheaper chassises, more lax QA, etc. Probably also more...
Margins are indeed thin, which means that further cuts will be made to offset the tariffs. More use of old and/or dodgy components, cheaper chassises, more lax QA, etc. Probably also more sponsored bloatware/spyware.
EDIT: Another way I could see costs being cut are through increased usage of problematic labor. It also seems likely to me that for the lower third-to-half of the market, fly-by-night Amazon "brands" like "DGORFEE" would proliferate over established players like Dell with lower prices by way of not needing to offer a warranty or even customer support.
Eh even past states show a sad disregard for repair demand. We've normalized that "repair" just isn't a thing. It's taken decades, but we've got an entire generation of consumers who grew up just...
Eh even past states show a sad disregard for repair demand.
We've normalized that "repair" just isn't a thing. It's taken decades, but we've got an entire generation of consumers who grew up just expecting to buy a replacement if something breaks.
Some of that comes from consumer demands (desiring ergonomics over repairability as things like phones more and more became status symbols or borderline jewelry) and some of it comes from companies obviously understanding that selling a new product is better than repairing an old one for their profitability.
In short, I agree, we'll probably just get more people buying laptops on "pay as you go" plans than anything else.
Part of this I believe has to do with the lead time on repairs, which for some things wasn't great even back when it was the norm to get things repaired. Everything moves at a much faster pace now...
We've normalized that "repair" just isn't a thing. It's taken decades, but we've got an entire generation of consumers who grew up just expecting to buy a replacement if something breaks.
Part of this I believe has to do with the lead time on repairs, which for some things wasn't great even back when it was the norm to get things repaired. Everything moves at a much faster pace now than it did back then, and so having to wait more than a day or two to get something fixed can be a real imposition in some situations. Buying new instead of repairing is also usually more convenient and tickles consumerist urges by giving an excuse to upgrade, try a competing model, etc.
With that in mind, it seems natural that parts and repairs must not only be available and cheaper than buying new, but at least as fast and convenient as buying new as well which is a high bar to clear even for pro-repair companies (e.g. it's probably not practical to achieve for iFixit or Framework).
Yeah there's a lot of forces working against repair. I just get tired of the "it's all a conspiracy from the large companies!" arguments and try to preempt it, because while they 100% have...
Yeah there's a lot of forces working against repair. I just get tired of the "it's all a conspiracy from the large companies!" arguments and try to preempt it, because while they 100% have absolutely tried to push for this market, there's absolutely customer desires that helped.
Like anything there's never one cause. Manufacturing techniques play into it as well. If something needs to be assembled by human hands it's going to be at least decently repairable. If it's...
Like anything there's never one cause. Manufacturing techniques play into it as well. If something needs to be assembled by human hands it's going to be at least decently repairable. If it's snapped together by a one-time assembly process that's been optimized to be as cheap per unit as possible it's not going to be very repairable. At least without added design work that will cost more.
…and the non-repairable design may be more reliable. It lasts longer before becoming a paperweight than the repairable design would before needing its first major repair.
…and the non-repairable design may be more reliable. It lasts longer before becoming a paperweight than the repairable design would before needing its first major repair.
Despite how much is out there about how tariffs work, I'm genuinely surprised that people believe tariffs only effect the manufacturer and not the importer. It's baffling and I ran across this clip last week from David Pakman (note, I have no strong opinion Pakman, just vaguely know who he is) explaining to some other person how tarriffs work and the dude in the glasses just is baffled.
It says so much about MAGA/Trumpian policies which boils down to performative bluster that his fans eat up and fail to question. No one is better at this than Vance who can polish a turd like no other.
This is also one of the things that greatly exacerbated the Great Depression: the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Some genius decided to heavily tax imports, which lead to two undesirable outcomes:
Exactly, so there's a precedent on this already that already demonstrates this doesn't work well. It's baffling to me, I don't expect everyone , especially MAGA/Trumpers to know the history of tariffs but there are so many quick explainers that can be reviewed in a few minutes to demonstrate why these tariffs make zero fucking sense. It's such dumb, cult-like thinking that pushes people to just accept these bald face lies at face value.
It's unlikely that tariffs will do anything way that Trump says he wants, because as usual he only has a rudimentary understanding of things but thinks he's an expert.
His stated goals for tariffs (according to this earlier article from AP which "sanewashes" and fills in some gaps that Trump didn't exactly say):
#1 - The normal goal of tariffs is to "level the playing field" for local products by making foreign ones too expensive. This will always drive up prices because it interferes with a free market. But it could theoretically cause #1 to happen eventually, after years or even decades while production spools up for demand. Or, we just may have to do without some things.
#2 is unlikely to happen at all, in fact it would probably do the opposite because we'll have trade wars and the economy will slow down as essential products and services are too expensive
#3 and #4 don't make any fucking sense at all
By the way, the whole idea basically undermines any normal strategy that a conservative or a republican would normally have. Which is one more thing that completely baffles me about the support for Trump. The only explanation is that Republicans never gave one single shit about any of their supposed "values", except "I want power and money and no regulations"
That's exactly my point, there isn't a ton of obvious follow up questions with some of these people. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? How does that work? Mass deportation? How does that work? End the Ukraine/Russia conflict? How does that work?
This, to me, is a fundamental question that so many of his followers imply don't ask themselves. Like I know I'm preaching to the choir but simply asking "how does that work" undercuts so many of Trump's "policy" goals.
If electronics suddenly became twice as expensive, regular people will start demanding repairable devices.
That's one possible outcome, but I believe that it's just as likely that it will force much of the market downward, increasing demand for cheaper, crappier gadgets which are less durable and not specced to remain usable for long periods, which would be counterproductive. In this scenario, the remainder of the market is unfazed as that group wasn't price sensitive to begin with.
I suspect that the supply chain margins for electronics in China are already thin from fierce internal competition.
Margins are indeed thin, which means that further cuts will be made to offset the tariffs. More use of old and/or dodgy components, cheaper chassises, more lax QA, etc. Probably also more sponsored bloatware/spyware.
EDIT: Another way I could see costs being cut are through increased usage of problematic labor. It also seems likely to me that for the lower third-to-half of the market, fly-by-night Amazon "brands" like "DGORFEE" would proliferate over established players like Dell with lower prices by way of not needing to offer a warranty or even customer support.
That would be a rational reaction and therefore very surprising in the current state of politics and public debate.
Eh even past states show a sad disregard for repair demand.
We've normalized that "repair" just isn't a thing. It's taken decades, but we've got an entire generation of consumers who grew up just expecting to buy a replacement if something breaks.
Some of that comes from consumer demands (desiring ergonomics over repairability as things like phones more and more became status symbols or borderline jewelry) and some of it comes from companies obviously understanding that selling a new product is better than repairing an old one for their profitability.
In short, I agree, we'll probably just get more people buying laptops on "pay as you go" plans than anything else.
Part of this I believe has to do with the lead time on repairs, which for some things wasn't great even back when it was the norm to get things repaired. Everything moves at a much faster pace now than it did back then, and so having to wait more than a day or two to get something fixed can be a real imposition in some situations. Buying new instead of repairing is also usually more convenient and tickles consumerist urges by giving an excuse to upgrade, try a competing model, etc.
With that in mind, it seems natural that parts and repairs must not only be available and cheaper than buying new, but at least as fast and convenient as buying new as well which is a high bar to clear even for pro-repair companies (e.g. it's probably not practical to achieve for iFixit or Framework).
Yeah there's a lot of forces working against repair. I just get tired of the "it's all a conspiracy from the large companies!" arguments and try to preempt it, because while they 100% have absolutely tried to push for this market, there's absolutely customer desires that helped.
Like anything there's never one cause. Manufacturing techniques play into it as well. If something needs to be assembled by human hands it's going to be at least decently repairable. If it's snapped together by a one-time assembly process that's been optimized to be as cheap per unit as possible it's not going to be very repairable. At least without added design work that will cost more.
…and the non-repairable design may be more reliable. It lasts longer before becoming a paperweight than the repairable design would before needing its first major repair.