I have a Google Home, but rigged a bit so I can use an app to cut its power. It makes everything in my house so much more convenient, and I don't have to worry about tracking. One could also just...
I have a Google Home, but rigged a bit so I can use an app to cut its power. It makes everything in my house so much more convenient, and I don't have to worry about tracking.
One could also just keep it in a room they don't have conversations in.
For people with disabilities, devices like these are a huge game-changer and potentially even a life-saver. That's a dimension about the accessibility these products provide that I almost never...
I cannot fathom why people voluntarily BUY these to put in their homes....
For people with disabilities, devices like these are a huge game-changer and potentially even a life-saver.
That's a dimension about the accessibility these products provide that I almost never see mentioned in online discussions.
I think you replied to the wrong comment, but I agree, "convenient" is an understatement for many people. My cousin was hit by a car last year, and still struggles to walk. Being able to just say...
I think you replied to the wrong comment, but I agree, "convenient" is an understatement for many people. My cousin was hit by a car last year, and still struggles to walk. Being able to just say "Alexa, turn off the lights" is beyond helpful for him.
Oh oops, my bad, you're right. Thanks for the heads up. Yeah, I mean I get why people are up in arms because of privacy concerns, but there are disadvantaged people out there like your cousin for...
Oh oops, my bad, you're right. Thanks for the heads up.
I agree, "convenient" is an understatement for many people
Yeah, I mean I get why people are up in arms because of privacy concerns, but there are disadvantaged people out there like your cousin for whom this is the matter between being able to live with dignity, or being mired in humiliation.
This is slightly off-topic, but as seen in coments below, people are discussing Google tracking our location to serve us personalised ads. Why should I care, that company knows where I am or what...
This is slightly off-topic, but as seen in coments below, people are discussing Google tracking our location to serve us personalised ads.
I'm not doing anything illegal, so I'm ok
Why should I care, that company knows where I am or what I do? I just can't think of a reason why should I care, if some company knows, for example, where I am.
For those of you who agree with this sentiment, I want to let you know that if you have an Android phone you're allowing Google access to your location everywhere you take your phone ([1]). I...
For those of you who agree with this sentiment, I want to let you know that if you have an Android phone you're allowing Google access to your location everywhere you take your phone ([1]). I recommend you disable location history on your phone and delete all historic location data. This also will disable the Google assistant - which is "such a little convenience" compared to throwing away your privacy.
I get that it's bad. Can you give some examples to me of how bad it is for Google to have access to where I go? For some reason I'm not worried about it, and I'd like to be.
I get that it's bad. Can you give some examples to me of how bad it is for Google to have access to where I go? For some reason I'm not worried about it, and I'd like to be.
The biggest issue for me is that once that data exists, a government can strong-arm the company into giving it up. It's already bad enough that your carrier can track you by the cell tower you're...
The biggest issue for me is that once that data exists, a government can strong-arm the company into giving it up. It's already bad enough that your carrier can track you by the cell tower you're connected to, but the data Google has is much more accurate thanks to GPS and WiFi SSID data.
I think about it like broadcasting to everyone where I am at every moment in my life. If I went to McDonalds, to the urologist, to the sex shop around the corner, whether I walk more like my...
I think about it like broadcasting to everyone where I am at every moment in my life. If I went to McDonalds, to the urologist, to the sex shop around the corner, whether I walk more like my doctor asked me to do or whether I take the car to the bakery which is just 5 mins by foot. These are all things that are not necessarily bad for google to know about me, but are things I would prefer to keep quiet (would I tell my parents about these?).
Another (more on the dystopian side) thing is that google combines that data with all the other things they know and then can use it in any way they want to influence me, they can sell it to my health insurance who jacks up their prices, they sell that data to other companies who want me to buy their product and who keeps my information.
In the end its a trade off for me: Is the convienience of google knowing where I might want to go worth it compared to all the (potential) downsides.
EDIT: This comment by Edward Snowden has stuck with me for some reason:
" Some might say "I don't care if they violate my privacy; I've got nothing to hide." Help them understand that they are misunderstanding the fundamental nature of human rights. Nobody needs to justify why they "need" a right: the burden of justification falls on the one seeking to infringe upon the right. But even if they did, you can't give away the rights of others because they're not useful to you. More simply, the majority cannot vote away the natural rights of the minority.
But even if they could, help them think for a moment about what they're saying. Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.
A free press benefits more than just those who read the paper."
Even though I disable location and google assistant/chrome, I don't think it's terribly bad to have google know where you are at all times. They're just monitoring you for advertising. I find it...
Even though I disable location and google assistant/chrome, I don't think it's terribly bad to have google know where you are at all times. They're just monitoring you for advertising. I find it creepy, honestly, but others just don't care and might find that it's more good than bad.
They're also using it to give better maps and navigation as well as business's busy hours. I find it incredibly convenient to see how busy the costco is before I leave the house, if I leave at the...
They're also using it to give better maps and navigation as well as business's busy hours. I find it incredibly convenient to see how busy the costco is before I leave the house, if I leave at the wrong time getting gas can been waiting for a half hour or longer. Or knowing that time of I need to leave to be somewhere on time that is adjusted for traffic accidents and construction. Sometimes knowing that despite being stuck in slow traffic that taking another route isn't any faster lets me let go of the impatience or anxiety I have about my situation.
I'm loathe to admit that I've used Google location history to find my phone on more than one occasion. One time it slipped out of my pocket in a Car2Go, I hadn't realized until the next morning, with location history and Car2Go's map, I was able to locate exactly where and the exact car it was in to have it locked down to retrieve it.
I get that people may not be comfortable handing over this information but I've mostly made my peace with it. I find the convenience worth it as they have added value to my life with the data we provide it.
I understand the convenience and usefulness of having a personal assistant in your home, but I can't fathom how so many people aren't the slightest bit concerned with having a microphone and...
I understand the convenience and usefulness of having a personal assistant in your home, but I can't fathom how so many people aren't the slightest bit concerned with having a microphone and camera connected to the internet 24/7 in their home, sending captured data back to Amazon, an online sales platform. And all these companies creating versions of these products for kids really makes me worried that people are going to grow up with them, and giant internet companies will eventually remember more about those people's childhoods than they do.
I think many assume that they would disappear in the crowd and no one cares about their boring life, also they don't think about manipulations they can be affected of by using these automation...
I think many assume that they would disappear in the crowd and no one cares about their boring life, also they don't think about manipulations they can be affected of by using these automation devices. It doesn't mean that I encourage to use these things, just trying to offer a different viewpoint.
There's also a microphone and camera on your smartphone (I'm presuming you have one). The Echo platform is only intended to send voice and video back to Amazon when one of its functions requiring...
There's also a microphone and camera on your smartphone (I'm presuming you have one). The Echo platform is only intended to send voice and video back to Amazon when one of its functions requiring it to do so is triggered. A bug that caused an Echo to forward a "private" conversation to someone on that person's contact list could just as easily be a bug that turned your phone mic on and sent that conversation somewhere, or turned the camera on and sent photos or videos to the Internet where you lost control of them.
This is a real scenario that is happening right now: https://phys.org/news/2017-02-germany-internet-connected-spying-doll-cayla.html In this case I think the german authoroties made the correct...
In this case I think the german authoroties made the correct decision to ban these devices, especially if they send unsecured data across the internet.
Now that is terrifying. I already feel like I'm being held hostage if I scroll down a page to kill time while an ad plays and it pauses to wait for me. If it could tell when I look away I might...
Looking away from the ad you’re being served on a video-streaming service? Amazon cameras could see and pause it until you look back.
Now that is terrifying. I already feel like I'm being held hostage if I scroll down a page to kill time while an ad plays and it pauses to wait for me. If it could tell when I look away I might rage-quit all technology.
Everyone here is freaking out way too much about these devices. These are not in any capacity required for you to have. They are completely and entirely optional. So you choose to buy them, set...
Everyone here is freaking out way too much about these devices. These are not in any capacity required for you to have. They are completely and entirely optional. So you choose to buy them, set them up, where they go, whether the mic is on/off, whethere they stay plugged in, etc. At any time you can choose to stop using them.
If you don't like these then you shouldn't like:
-Smart appliances/other smart devices (fridges, cars, coffee makers, etc)
-Any type of security camera you would use in your home
-Any type of alarm system
-Smartphones (Apple/google are watching. And not only that, so are your apps)
-The Internet (it is based on data and eyes such as cookies are everywhere)
-Laptops/desktops
-etc.
However, we were all fine with using these in our daily lives. All of the things I listed involve using data to better their services. For google this is search and ads. For amazon this is products. And of course there are tons more.
While there are certainly privacy concerns with this your choice to use these devices and how deeply and intimately you use them is your own to make. No one is forcing you to allow any of these companies to learn anything about you. Also, nobody cares about you specifically. This is used to create patterns of masses of data to predict consumer behavior. I assure you no one is trying to figure out what James Smith did last night and if he may or may not have cheated with his wife.
While I believe there is an argument to make with how the companies store and protect this data and government interference with it, that's not what is going on here. That is a valid argument and one I think we should discuss seriously for those of us who choose to share our data ith these companies. But for those of you who don't want to be "spied on", start unplugging.
Unfortunately I need a laptop and smartphone to stay competitive in my field of employment. There are technological developments that you can't ignore at some point and the companies controlling...
Unfortunately I need a laptop and smartphone to stay competitive in my field of employment. There are technological developments that you can't ignore at some point and the companies controlling these technologies have a lot of power and responsibility. See facebook on how they completely disregarded their responsibility.
And that's why I said that of the data they do have on you it should be very well kept and certain rules in place. But that's a different discussion than the one we are having here. With your...
And that's why I said that of the data they do have on you it should be very well kept and certain rules in place. But that's a different discussion than the one we are having here. With your phone and laptop do you: cover all cameras, only uncover the micrphones when you need to speak, use browsers that are made for privacy (Duckduckgo for example), disable all cookies and such, not use any apps you don't need, only visit sites you trust or need to visit, often delete all your information and start fresh, change all your passwords, disable all extra services, etc.?
I highly doubt you do any of that, certainly not all of it. Many of us use google search, google maps, location services, social media, etc. So you can't choose to use those services and things and then complain that the big companies are taking your data - you're giving it to them. What they do with that data, who gets to see it, and the security practices on their end are an entirely different debate and one that needs to be had, though.
I advise you not to jump to conclusions about people you don't know. Of course I don't do all of it, but security and comfort can be balanced in many different ratios. For example I try to...
I highly doubt you do any of that
I advise you not to jump to conclusions about people you don't know. Of course I don't do all of it, but security and comfort can be balanced in many different ratios. For example I try to convince all my friends and family to switch to Signal and talk about privacy, etc. I actually managed to convince about 75% of them, but some just don't care at all and don't want to give up on comfort or don't trust my arguments.
So it's also about networks, not only about the career but also about actual friends .
With how many people statistically choose to use these services, I'm more likely to be right than be wrong in guessing that. And it seems I was partially correct, proving my point. It is a lot of...
With how many people statistically choose to use these services, I'm more likely to be right than be wrong in guessing that. And it seems I was partially correct, proving my point. It is a lot of unneeded work to do all of that, when using these services is so much easier. You are allowing them to collect some data in order to have things much more convenient. Depending on the practices of that company and the data collected, I would consider that a fair trade. Though, even if you don't use their services companies like Google, Amazon, and Facebook will still find out lots about you unless you are very cautious anyway.
I'm not saying being conscious about this is wrong - it's very good actually. But it comes at the large cost of convenience among other things. So it might be better to focus our efforts on what happens to that data after it is collected.
How big of a privacy breach is necessary before broader society realizes the inherent problems with these types of devices and generally begins to take privacy seriously? How much bigger or more...
How big of a privacy breach is necessary before broader society realizes the inherent problems with these types of devices and generally begins to take privacy seriously? How much bigger or more brazen of abuses of privacy beyond the facebook/CA scandal does the public need to witness before people internalize that lots of entities won't behave morally (or even legally) once in possession of their data and, more broadly, that personal privacy is intrinsically important? It's demoralizing watching this shit continually happen.
Sorry, but is this actually a thing? Or were all of those examples in the article just exhibiting the potential that a Home Smart device could have? Either way, it's still quite terrifying to be...
Looking away from the ad you’re being served on a video-streaming service? Amazon cameras could see and pause it until you look back.
Sorry, but is this actually a thing? Or were all of those examples in the article just exhibiting the potential that a Home Smart device could have?
Either way, it's still quite terrifying to be heading down a path that seems to easily go down as dystopic. I'm not one to usually feel like technology is deterministic, but these are some damn real concerns that we're throwing our lives and lifestyles to fit around these things that are supposed to enhance our experiences.
I cannot fathom why people voluntarily BUY these to put in their homes.... Amazon should be the one paying me to do that. Frightening.
I have a Google Home, but rigged a bit so I can use an app to cut its power. It makes everything in my house so much more convenient, and I don't have to worry about tracking.
One could also just keep it in a room they don't have conversations in.
For people with disabilities, devices like these are a huge game-changer and potentially even a life-saver.
That's a dimension about the accessibility these products provide that I almost never see mentioned in online discussions.
I think you replied to the wrong comment, but I agree, "convenient" is an understatement for many people. My cousin was hit by a car last year, and still struggles to walk. Being able to just say "Alexa, turn off the lights" is beyond helpful for him.
Oh oops, my bad, you're right. Thanks for the heads up.
Yeah, I mean I get why people are up in arms because of privacy concerns, but there are disadvantaged people out there like your cousin for whom this is the matter between being able to live with dignity, or being mired in humiliation.
I find it amazing how people completely throw away their privacy for such a little convenience that these devices provide.
I agree. I think many people have the mentality of "I'm not doing anything illegal, so I'm ok."
It is frankly a terrible thought process.
This is slightly off-topic, but as seen in coments below, people are discussing Google tracking our location to serve us personalised ads.
Why should I care, that company knows where I am or what I do? I just can't think of a reason why should I care, if some company knows, for example, where I am.
For those of you who agree with this sentiment, I want to let you know that if you have an Android phone you're allowing Google access to your location everywhere you take your phone ([1]). I recommend you disable location history on your phone and delete all historic location data. This also will disable the Google assistant - which is "such a little convenience" compared to throwing away your privacy.
I get that it's bad. Can you give some examples to me of how bad it is for Google to have access to where I go? For some reason I'm not worried about it, and I'd like to be.
The biggest issue for me is that once that data exists, a government can strong-arm the company into giving it up. It's already bad enough that your carrier can track you by the cell tower you're connected to, but the data Google has is much more accurate thanks to GPS and WiFi SSID data.
A good point to remember. That coupled with @Eylop's statement about not voting away others' rights is very powerful. Thanks!
I think about it like broadcasting to everyone where I am at every moment in my life. If I went to McDonalds, to the urologist, to the sex shop around the corner, whether I walk more like my doctor asked me to do or whether I take the car to the bakery which is just 5 mins by foot. These are all things that are not necessarily bad for google to know about me, but are things I would prefer to keep quiet (would I tell my parents about these?).
Another (more on the dystopian side) thing is that google combines that data with all the other things they know and then can use it in any way they want to influence me, they can sell it to my health insurance who jacks up their prices, they sell that data to other companies who want me to buy their product and who keeps my information.
In the end its a trade off for me: Is the convienience of google knowing where I might want to go worth it compared to all the (potential) downsides.
EDIT: This comment by Edward Snowden has stuck with me for some reason:
" Some might say "I don't care if they violate my privacy; I've got nothing to hide." Help them understand that they are misunderstanding the fundamental nature of human rights. Nobody needs to justify why they "need" a right: the burden of justification falls on the one seeking to infringe upon the right. But even if they did, you can't give away the rights of others because they're not useful to you. More simply, the majority cannot vote away the natural rights of the minority.
But even if they could, help them think for a moment about what they're saying. Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.
A free press benefits more than just those who read the paper."
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/36ru89/just_days_left_to_kill_mass_surveillance_under/crglgh2/
There's a lot to think about there! Especially:
That really strikes a chord with me. Thanks for the thoughtful reply!
Even though I disable location and google assistant/chrome, I don't think it's terribly bad to have google know where you are at all times. They're just monitoring you for advertising. I find it creepy, honestly, but others just don't care and might find that it's more good than bad.
They're also using it to give better maps and navigation as well as business's busy hours. I find it incredibly convenient to see how busy the costco is before I leave the house, if I leave at the wrong time getting gas can been waiting for a half hour or longer. Or knowing that time of I need to leave to be somewhere on time that is adjusted for traffic accidents and construction. Sometimes knowing that despite being stuck in slow traffic that taking another route isn't any faster lets me let go of the impatience or anxiety I have about my situation.
I'm loathe to admit that I've used Google location history to find my phone on more than one occasion. One time it slipped out of my pocket in a Car2Go, I hadn't realized until the next morning, with location history and Car2Go's map, I was able to locate exactly where and the exact car it was in to have it locked down to retrieve it.
I get that people may not be comfortable handing over this information but I've mostly made my peace with it. I find the convenience worth it as they have added value to my life with the data we provide it.
I understand the convenience and usefulness of having a personal assistant in your home, but I can't fathom how so many people aren't the slightest bit concerned with having a microphone and camera connected to the internet 24/7 in their home, sending captured data back to Amazon, an online sales platform. And all these companies creating versions of these products for kids really makes me worried that people are going to grow up with them, and giant internet companies will eventually remember more about those people's childhoods than they do.
I think many assume that they would disappear in the crowd and no one cares about their boring life, also they don't think about manipulations they can be affected of by using these automation devices. It doesn't mean that I encourage to use these things, just trying to offer a different viewpoint.
There's also a microphone and camera on your smartphone (I'm presuming you have one). The Echo platform is only intended to send voice and video back to Amazon when one of its functions requiring it to do so is triggered. A bug that caused an Echo to forward a "private" conversation to someone on that person's contact list could just as easily be a bug that turned your phone mic on and sent that conversation somewhere, or turned the camera on and sent photos or videos to the Internet where you lost control of them.
This is a real scenario that is happening right now: https://phys.org/news/2017-02-germany-internet-connected-spying-doll-cayla.html
In this case I think the german authoroties made the correct decision to ban these devices, especially if they send unsecured data across the internet.
Now that is terrifying. I already feel like I'm being held hostage if I scroll down a page to kill time while an ad plays and it pauses to wait for me. If it could tell when I look away I might rage-quit all technology.
Literally something from Black Mirror.
Everyone here is freaking out way too much about these devices. These are not in any capacity required for you to have. They are completely and entirely optional. So you choose to buy them, set them up, where they go, whether the mic is on/off, whethere they stay plugged in, etc. At any time you can choose to stop using them.
If you don't like these then you shouldn't like:
-Smart appliances/other smart devices (fridges, cars, coffee makers, etc)
-Any type of security camera you would use in your home
-Any type of alarm system
-Smartphones (Apple/google are watching. And not only that, so are your apps)
-The Internet (it is based on data and eyes such as cookies are everywhere)
-Laptops/desktops
-etc.
However, we were all fine with using these in our daily lives. All of the things I listed involve using data to better their services. For google this is search and ads. For amazon this is products. And of course there are tons more.
While there are certainly privacy concerns with this your choice to use these devices and how deeply and intimately you use them is your own to make. No one is forcing you to allow any of these companies to learn anything about you. Also, nobody cares about you specifically. This is used to create patterns of masses of data to predict consumer behavior. I assure you no one is trying to figure out what James Smith did last night and if he may or may not have cheated with his wife.
While I believe there is an argument to make with how the companies store and protect this data and government interference with it, that's not what is going on here. That is a valid argument and one I think we should discuss seriously for those of us who choose to share our data ith these companies. But for those of you who don't want to be "spied on", start unplugging.
Unfortunately I need a laptop and smartphone to stay competitive in my field of employment. There are technological developments that you can't ignore at some point and the companies controlling these technologies have a lot of power and responsibility. See facebook on how they completely disregarded their responsibility.
And that's why I said that of the data they do have on you it should be very well kept and certain rules in place. But that's a different discussion than the one we are having here. With your phone and laptop do you: cover all cameras, only uncover the micrphones when you need to speak, use browsers that are made for privacy (Duckduckgo for example), disable all cookies and such, not use any apps you don't need, only visit sites you trust or need to visit, often delete all your information and start fresh, change all your passwords, disable all extra services, etc.?
I highly doubt you do any of that, certainly not all of it. Many of us use google search, google maps, location services, social media, etc. So you can't choose to use those services and things and then complain that the big companies are taking your data - you're giving it to them. What they do with that data, who gets to see it, and the security practices on their end are an entirely different debate and one that needs to be had, though.
I advise you not to jump to conclusions about people you don't know. Of course I don't do all of it, but security and comfort can be balanced in many different ratios. For example I try to convince all my friends and family to switch to Signal and talk about privacy, etc. I actually managed to convince about 75% of them, but some just don't care at all and don't want to give up on comfort or don't trust my arguments.
So it's also about networks, not only about the career but also about actual friends .
With how many people statistically choose to use these services, I'm more likely to be right than be wrong in guessing that. And it seems I was partially correct, proving my point. It is a lot of unneeded work to do all of that, when using these services is so much easier. You are allowing them to collect some data in order to have things much more convenient. Depending on the practices of that company and the data collected, I would consider that a fair trade. Though, even if you don't use their services companies like Google, Amazon, and Facebook will still find out lots about you unless you are very cautious anyway.
I'm not saying being conscious about this is wrong - it's very good actually. But it comes at the large cost of convenience among other things. So it might be better to focus our efforts on what happens to that data after it is collected.
How big of a privacy breach is necessary before broader society realizes the inherent problems with these types of devices and generally begins to take privacy seriously? How much bigger or more brazen of abuses of privacy beyond the facebook/CA scandal does the public need to witness before people internalize that lots of entities won't behave morally (or even legally) once in possession of their data and, more broadly, that personal privacy is intrinsically important? It's demoralizing watching this shit continually happen.
Sorry, but is this actually a thing? Or were all of those examples in the article just exhibiting the potential that a Home Smart device could have?
Either way, it's still quite terrifying to be heading down a path that seems to easily go down as dystopic. I'm not one to usually feel like technology is deterministic, but these are some damn real concerns that we're throwing our lives and lifestyles to fit around these things that are supposed to enhance our experiences.