I'm not a fan of this, but even more so because I just wish Netflix was capable of listening when I tell them that I'm not interested in something. Some new series of theirs will come out, and...
I'm not a fan of this, but even more so because I just wish Netflix was capable of listening when I tell them that I'm not interested in something. Some new series of theirs will come out, and it'll show it to me in giant full-screen form every time I open the site for days. Eventually I get tired of just ignoring it and give it a thumbs-down, and it will still keep showing it to me constantly as the main thing it's trying to get me to watch.
Sometimes a few days later it'll even send me a notification because it thinks I'll be interested in the show. The one that I gave a thumbs-down to.
It's this kind of stuff that gives me absolutely no confidence in recommendation algorithms, they can't even get the obvious basics right.
Infiltration/abuse by the marketing department aside. What I want is recommendations from people telling you what +they+ enjoy, very often (maybe even usually) totally ignoring your preferences...
Infiltration/abuse by the marketing department aside.
absolutely no confidence in recommendation algorithms
What I want is recommendations from people telling you what +they+ enjoy, very often (maybe even usually) totally ignoring your preferences and basing it instead on their own idiosyncratic mental connections between genres, writers, actors, mood, weather, ...
Algorithmic recommendations are as useful to me as targeted ads - the only ads I've ever responded to are those on cereal packets and they win based on the free gifts inside.
I think this is why so many of us got sucked into modding the music communities. When the recommendation threads popped up and people started sharing, the results were untouchable by any service...
I think this is why so many of us got sucked into modding the music communities. When the recommendation threads popped up and people started sharing, the results were untouchable by any service out there.
I think it comes down to memory. We remember the things we love with ease, and when someone asks for recommendations, we've forgotten the bad and the meh, but we remember the things that surprised or intrigued us, and we gush like fangirls about the things that blow our minds. When you ask someone for their recs, you're only getting the results that pass that memory test.
That's it! No-one recommends their meh experiences. I have a feeling that even personal recommendations have a pretty low success rate, but when they do work, they're so much better because...
That's it! No-one recommends their meh experiences.
I have a feeling that even personal recommendations have a pretty low success rate, but when they do work, they're so much better because they're basically biased, random, peak samples.
I think they do it on purpose. Spotify isn't great at recommendations but it does a serviceable enough job that I find some goodies in my weekly suggestions. It doesn't push genres I'm not...
I think they do it on purpose.
Spotify isn't great at recommendations but it does a serviceable enough job that I find some goodies in my weekly suggestions. It doesn't push genres I'm not interested in at all. I can't see any reason why Netflix couldn't be at least that serviceable if they wanted. Recommending music and television shows isn't that different. In fact, I'd expect shows and films to be easier to nail down than music.
I doubt it's the result of an unbiased recommendation engine, they just want to forcefully push their own content. There was a recent paper about a recommendation algorithm that was able to...
I doubt it's the result of an unbiased recommendation engine, they just want to forcefully push their own content.
There was a recent paper about a recommendation algorithm that was able to perform (theoretically?) faster than a traditional one and equivalently to a quantum one, so there may be improvements in the future. https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3880
No thanks. I watch Netflix because ads are intolerable. The autoplay videos on the landing screen are bad enough.
In a statement given to Ars Technica, Netflix described the change as follows: "We are testing whether surfacing recommendations between episodes helps members discover stories they will enjoy faster." The reasoning, Netflix's statement says, comes from its last controversial decision: to add auto-playing videos, complete with unmuteable audio, while browsing through Netflix content.
Netflix offered one major rebuttal to at least one Reddit claim, pointing out that the ads for Netflix content are entirely skippable.
No thanks. I watch Netflix because ads are intolerable. The autoplay videos on the landing screen are bad enough.
I agree. If I see this, I will immediately cancel my subscription, and make sure they know exactly why I did. I have supported Netflix for years strictly because they have NO ads. If that changes,...
I agree. If I see this, I will immediately cancel my subscription, and make sure they know exactly why I did. I have supported Netflix for years strictly because they have NO ads. If that changes, I'm done. End of story.
Big this. I mostly stopped pirating shows and movies because Netflix made things more convenient and hassle-free. If I'm paying for a service, I expect it to be functional and without ads. Remove...
Big this.
I mostly stopped pirating shows and movies because Netflix made things more convenient and hassle-free. If I'm paying for a service, I expect it to be functional and without ads. Remove either or both of those and I stop paying. That simple.
I have several free Terabytes, and I'm not afraid to utilize them.
The only autoplay on their website that's good, in my opinion, is the part where you hover over a listing and it gives you that 10-second blurb from whatever show you hovered over. And that's...
The only autoplay on their website that's good, in my opinion, is the part where you hover over a listing and it gives you that 10-second blurb from whatever show you hovered over. And that's technically only semi-automatic
God. Dammit. Netflix, why can't you learn from history. /sigh Well, if enough subscribers start to cancel over this maybe they'll wise up. If it doesn't affect their bottom line I bet they'll push...
God. Dammit. Netflix, why can't you learn from history. /sigh
Well, if enough subscribers start to cancel over this maybe they'll wise up. If it doesn't affect their bottom line I bet they'll push into more aggressive advertising. This is how it begins.
To me it's yet another straw that degrades the experience of using Netflix. I used to enjoy just scrolling through the library with my brother, browsing for something interesting, occasionally...
To me it's yet another straw that degrades the experience of using Netflix.
I used to enjoy just scrolling through the library with my brother, browsing for something interesting, occasionally commenting on things we've seen or want to see, have or haven't heard of, clicking into something to read more about it before finally making a decision. Lately (over the last year) we've been doing that less and less, and watching a lot less Netflix.
The reason is that browsing is now, from a UX standpoint, actively stressful. If you don't want loud annoying noises suddenly popping up, you are forced to keep scrolling through the lists, and if you want to stop and look at something in more detail, it starts playing the whole thing before you've even finished reading.
When you finish watching a movie, you used to be able to sit and the last moments sink in while the credits rolled, now it tears the credits away after the first seconds to show you an ad or try to start playing something else for you.
The UI should let the user relax and feel in control, now it puts everything on a timer so you have to be ready to jump up and grab the remote any time it wants to see you dance.
I haven't cancelled quite yet, but I have been finding myself using Amazon or HBO far more often, even for things that Netflix actually has, purely because of this issue. If it gets much worse, I can easily see myself cancelling entirely.
This really annoys me too. I use to just browse and slowly decide, but since this feature, I browse until I accidentally trigger it a few times and shortly after turn off Netflix.
The reason is that browsing is now, from a UX standpoint, actively stressful. If you don't want loud annoying noises suddenly popping up, you are forced to keep scrolling through the lists, and if you want to stop and look at something in more detail, it starts playing the whole thing before you've even finished reading.
This really annoys me too. I use to just browse and slowly decide, but since this feature, I browse until I accidentally trigger it a few times and shortly after turn off Netflix.
I have yet to meet a single person who doesn't, except for the sole case of playing the next episode in a series. I can vaguely understand the metrics and marketing/strategic thinking that lead to...
I have yet to meet a single person who doesn't, except for the sole case of playing the next episode in a series.
I can vaguely understand the metrics and marketing/strategic thinking that lead to it, but the fact that Netflix is so set on this path is frustrating, and I really think it's going to hurt them in the long run.
Looks like you're falling victim to the fallacy fallacy. Many fallacies - including the slippery slope fallacy - only apply to logical proofs - the choice between might and must, or might and...
Looks like you're falling victim to the fallacy fallacy. Many fallacies - including the slippery slope fallacy - only apply to logical proofs - the choice between might and must, or might and can't.
Within the infinite boundaries of 'might' is the far greyer world of heuristics. This is where things like Occam's and Hanlon's razor do their magic. This is the place where we don't have enough proof of something to say it is without a doubt certainly going to happen or not happen, but we do have indications of weight between possiblys and probablys that we can act on. Indeed 99% of our human existence occurs in this space, whether we are aware of it or not - imperfect information is the rule, not the exception.
The gap between 'no ads of any kind no way no how' and 'some 1st party ads' is far larger than the gap between 'some 1st party ads' and 'some 3rd party ads'. History has shown the reaction to the first step in the advertising infection governs the next steps.
Netflix has been advertising for a long time anyways (albeit a bit more subtly). Shit like autoplaying a first party show when you first open netflix to recommending you shows when you finish a...
Netflix has been advertising for a long time anyways (albeit a bit more subtly). Shit like autoplaying a first party show when you first open netflix to recommending you shows when you finish a show (and they all just conveniently happen to be netflix originals too).
I really hope you're right. This has happened before, though. Here's a blast from the past which is almost comical to read now given what we've seen play out with cable advertising since 1981 when...
I really hope you're right. This has happened before, though. Here's a blast from the past which is almost comical to read now given what we've seen play out with cable advertising since 1981 when this article was written.
I hope so, although Netflix is under pressure to increase revenue and it's easy to see these not real ad segments as great places they could sell off in the future. There's reason to think it...
I hope so, although Netflix is under pressure to increase revenue and it's easy to see these not real ad segments as great places they could sell off in the future. There's reason to think it could happen, but you're right that we can't say for sure how things will go.
Real ads? What is the difference between advertising another series they own and advertising another something from somewhere? I pay to not be advertised to and as soon as this happens I am...
Real ads? What is the difference between advertising another series they own and advertising another something from somewhere? I pay to not be advertised to and as soon as this happens I am cancelling my subscription and torrenting everything of theirs I am interested in.
It is an annoyance, which is the point. I pay to not be annoyed. It may be remarkably entitled, but if that is the only way for me to get what they offer without them shoving something else down...
It is an annoyance, which is the point. I pay to not be annoyed.
It may be remarkably entitled, but if that is the only way for me to get what they offer without them shoving something else down my throat, that is how I am getting it.
HBOgo does the same thing. It’s pretty minor and I can skip it fairly easily. As long as I can ignore it pretty easily, I’m fine with them trying to showcase their other stuff
HBOgo does the same thing. It’s pretty minor and I can skip it fairly easily. As long as I can ignore it pretty easily, I’m fine with them trying to showcase their other stuff
1,612 U.S. TV viewers between the ages of 16-74 were surveyed by the organization and asked what they would do if Netflix added ads. Specifically, 23 percent of those surveyed said they’d unsubscribe, with 41 percent saying they’d definitely or probably keep their subscription, and 37 percent undecided
I'm not a fan of this, but even more so because I just wish Netflix was capable of listening when I tell them that I'm not interested in something. Some new series of theirs will come out, and it'll show it to me in giant full-screen form every time I open the site for days. Eventually I get tired of just ignoring it and give it a thumbs-down, and it will still keep showing it to me constantly as the main thing it's trying to get me to watch.
Sometimes a few days later it'll even send me a notification because it thinks I'll be interested in the show. The one that I gave a thumbs-down to.
It's this kind of stuff that gives me absolutely no confidence in recommendation algorithms, they can't even get the obvious basics right.
Infiltration/abuse by the marketing department aside.
What I want is recommendations from people telling you what +they+ enjoy, very often (maybe even usually) totally ignoring your preferences and basing it instead on their own idiosyncratic mental connections between genres, writers, actors, mood, weather, ...
Algorithmic recommendations are as useful to me as targeted ads - the only ads I've ever responded to are those on cereal packets and they win based on the free gifts inside.
I think this is why so many of us got sucked into modding the music communities. When the recommendation threads popped up and people started sharing, the results were untouchable by any service out there.
I think it comes down to memory. We remember the things we love with ease, and when someone asks for recommendations, we've forgotten the bad and the meh, but we remember the things that surprised or intrigued us, and we gush like fangirls about the things that blow our minds. When you ask someone for their recs, you're only getting the results that pass that memory test.
That's it! No-one recommends their meh experiences.
I have a feeling that even personal recommendations have a pretty low success rate, but when they do work, they're so much better because they're basically biased, random, peak samples.
I think they do it on purpose.
Spotify isn't great at recommendations but it does a serviceable enough job that I find some goodies in my weekly suggestions. It doesn't push genres I'm not interested in at all. I can't see any reason why Netflix couldn't be at least that serviceable if they wanted. Recommending music and television shows isn't that different. In fact, I'd expect shows and films to be easier to nail down than music.
I doubt it's the result of an unbiased recommendation engine, they just want to forcefully push their own content.
There was a recent paper about a recommendation algorithm that was able to perform (theoretically?) faster than a traditional one and equivalently to a quantum one, so there may be improvements in the future.
https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3880
No thanks. I watch Netflix because ads are intolerable. The autoplay videos on the landing screen are bad enough.
I agree. If I see this, I will immediately cancel my subscription, and make sure they know exactly why I did. I have supported Netflix for years strictly because they have NO ads. If that changes, I'm done. End of story.
Big this.
I mostly stopped pirating shows and movies because Netflix made things more convenient and hassle-free. If I'm paying for a service, I expect it to be functional and without ads. Remove either or both of those and I stop paying. That simple.
I have several free Terabytes, and I'm not afraid to utilize them.
The only autoplay on their website that's good, in my opinion, is the part where you hover over a listing and it gives you that 10-second blurb from whatever show you hovered over. And that's technically only semi-automatic
I will not tolerate this if they put this in. I would immediately cancel my subscription.
God. Dammit. Netflix, why can't you learn from history. /sigh
Well, if enough subscribers start to cancel over this maybe they'll wise up. If it doesn't affect their bottom line I bet they'll push into more aggressive advertising. This is how it begins.
To me it's yet another straw that degrades the experience of using Netflix.
I used to enjoy just scrolling through the library with my brother, browsing for something interesting, occasionally commenting on things we've seen or want to see, have or haven't heard of, clicking into something to read more about it before finally making a decision. Lately (over the last year) we've been doing that less and less, and watching a lot less Netflix.
The reason is that browsing is now, from a UX standpoint, actively stressful. If you don't want loud annoying noises suddenly popping up, you are forced to keep scrolling through the lists, and if you want to stop and look at something in more detail, it starts playing the whole thing before you've even finished reading.
When you finish watching a movie, you used to be able to sit and the last moments sink in while the credits rolled, now it tears the credits away after the first seconds to show you an ad or try to start playing something else for you.
The UI should let the user relax and feel in control, now it puts everything on a timer so you have to be ready to jump up and grab the remote any time it wants to see you dance.
I haven't cancelled quite yet, but I have been finding myself using Amazon or HBO far more often, even for things that Netflix actually has, purely because of this issue. If it gets much worse, I can easily see myself cancelling entirely.
This really annoys me too. I use to just browse and slowly decide, but since this feature, I browse until I accidentally trigger it a few times and shortly after turn off Netflix.
I have yet to meet a single person who doesn't, except for the sole case of playing the next episode in a series.
I can vaguely understand the metrics and marketing/strategic thinking that lead to it, but the fact that Netflix is so set on this path is frustrating, and I really think it's going to hurt them in the long run.
You give an inch today, they've taken a mile by next year.
Looks like you're falling victim to the fallacy fallacy. Many fallacies - including the slippery slope fallacy - only apply to logical proofs - the choice between might and must, or might and can't.
Within the infinite boundaries of 'might' is the far greyer world of heuristics. This is where things like Occam's and Hanlon's razor do their magic. This is the place where we don't have enough proof of something to say it is without a doubt certainly going to happen or not happen, but we do have indications of weight between possiblys and probablys that we can act on. Indeed 99% of our human existence occurs in this space, whether we are aware of it or not - imperfect information is the rule, not the exception.
The gap between 'no ads of any kind no way no how' and 'some 1st party ads' is far larger than the gap between 'some 1st party ads' and 'some 3rd party ads'. History has shown the reaction to the first step in the advertising infection governs the next steps.
Netflix has been advertising for a long time anyways (albeit a bit more subtly). Shit like autoplaying a first party show when you first open netflix to recommending you shows when you finish a show (and they all just conveniently happen to be netflix originals too).
I really hope you're right. This has happened before, though. Here's a blast from the past which is almost comical to read now given what we've seen play out with cable advertising since 1981 when this article was written.
I hope so, although Netflix is under pressure to increase revenue and it's easy to see these not real ad segments as great places they could sell off in the future. There's reason to think it could happen, but you're right that we can't say for sure how things will go.
Real ads? What is the difference between advertising another series they own and advertising another something from somewhere? I pay to not be advertised to and as soon as this happens I am cancelling my subscription and torrenting everything of theirs I am interested in.
It is an annoyance, which is the point. I pay to not be annoyed.
It may be remarkably entitled, but if that is the only way for me to get what they offer without them shoving something else down my throat, that is how I am getting it.
I didn't say there weren't other options, I was just saying what I would do in this situation.
I would honestly rather they charge more than show me ads, especially if they are their terrible recommendations.
HBOgo does the same thing. It’s pretty minor and I can skip it fairly easily. As long as I can ignore it pretty easily, I’m fine with them trying to showcase their other stuff
I can tolerate this, but if they ever start interrupting episodes or movies to show ads, they are gone.
New article about this topic: https://www.indiewire.com/2018/09/netflix-ads-could-lose-subscribers-1202002896/
It references a study: