44 votes

Starting Friday, dockworkers in all Swedish ports will refuse to offload Teslas, cleaning crews will no longer clean showrooms, and mechanics won't fix charging points

12 comments

  1. [12]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [5]
      MimicSquid
      Link Parent
      Does it not? It provides an economic pressure on the people who're using Teslas, which, assuming it's kept up, helps choke the long term demand for them as well as providing an immediate economic...

      Does it not? It provides an economic pressure on the people who're using Teslas, which, assuming it's kept up, helps choke the long term demand for them as well as providing an immediate economic disincentive to people who think about buying one for taxi work.

      35 votes
      1. [5]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [4]
          DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          @bloup noted the other things. But this is a strike, it's supposed to be a temporary labor action. Passing a subsidy for taxi drivers who don't get enough fares due to the strike is truly so far...

          @bloup noted the other things. But this is a strike, it's supposed to be a temporary labor action. Passing a subsidy for taxi drivers who don't get enough fares due to the strike is truly so far down the list of needed tasks.

          Even if it was said (again see bloup's post) and said in solidarity to assume it's all that was done is putting too much faith in media.

          21 votes
          1. [4]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. vord
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Why should nurses and doctors be allowed to strike, people will die! We should force them at gunpoint to keep working and never let them deny their labor to a company that treats them like crap...

              Put another way: why should taxi drivers be (even indirectly) punished while you try to achieve something for another group?

              Why should nurses and doctors be allowed to strike, people will die! We should force them at gunpoint to keep working and never let them deny their labor to a company that treats them like crap because other people's lives are more important.

              Big fat /s that some people seem to think should be reality.

              Labor needs to be in solidarity. Unrelated unions will often start striking in support of other unions to further turn up dials. The whole point of striking is to grind things to a halt and prove how important those workers are. Not to inconvienience as few people as possible. Doctors, nurses, teachers, and public transit workers don't strike casually. They do it only when their situations are dire because they know people depend on them. Medical staff in particular usually won't strike unless the company is treating them so poorly that it's actively hurting patients as well. I've never seen a nurse's strike just because of wages.

              All (and I do mean all) of the blame for the consequences of striking belongs squarely on the hands of the bosses who refuse to negotiate in good faith before it gets to that point, playing chicken with the unions to see if they'll really do it.

              21 votes
            2. [2]
              DefinitelyNotAFae
              Link Parent
              It's not. Not only is that not what crab mentality is, I never said anything of the sort. Neither did the former prime minister. So we're going to ignore the clarifying post where you accused the...

              That strikes me as somewhat crab mentality

              It's not.

              in that you're willing to burn others down to get your goals.

              Not only is that not what crab mentality is, I never said anything of the sort. Neither did the former prime minister.

              Put another way: why should taxi drivers be (even indirectly) punished while you try to achieve something for another group? We can support the strike without arguing that we harm another unrelated cohort's livelihood

              So we're going to ignore the clarifying post where you accused the other user of lecturing you instead of providing important context?

              I'm not sure what you expect the former prime minister to do other than to be pristine in their words and in how they support a labor action. They are not the current prime minister and once again there is a lot of other context involved Not least of which is translation.

              Even if it was the current prime minister, there are still more important priorities in addressing the impact of a labor action then the possible loss of business by a hypothetical Tesla taxi driver.

              LIke, I get it: you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, sure, but this just feels like a really odd application of Coase theorem thinking.

              Well now, I don't know if it's okay for a crab to break an egg or not. I'm pretty sure that isn't what's happening here, but I don't know if it's okay if it were. I think you're blowing the hypothetical taxi driver way out of proportion with the reality and the impact.

              9 votes
              1. [2]
                Comment deleted by author
                Link Parent
                1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                  (edited )
                  Link Parent
                  Based on this comment and the edit you made to your now removed comment I'm going to interpret this reply to mean you are not reading my own comments so we can end this here. May the crabs cook...

                  Based on this comment and the edit you made to your now removed comment I'm going to interpret this reply to mean you are not reading my own comments so we can end this here.

                  May the crabs cook omelettes in Pareto optimality et fili et spiritu sancti or whatever. You're clearly not responding to my position.

                  8 votes
    2. [5]
      bloup
      Link Parent
      You should be more careful when you read news articles. I want to point out, the author here does not quote him. The author merely states the former prime minister “said he’ll refuse to take a...

      You should be more careful when you read news articles. I want to point out, the author here does not quote him. The author merely states the former prime minister “said he’ll refuse to take a taxi if the driver is behind the wheel of a Tesla”. This is actually quite important as there’s lots of very different things that could be pretty accurately and honestly described as “the former Swedish prime minister said he’d refuse to take a taxi if it was a Tesla”. Obviously it could mean this guy in a speech or interview somewhere just kind of blurted out “I hate what Tesla is doing so much, if I called a taxi and the driver showed up in one I’d refuse the service” which is what I suspect you may be imagining. It could also mean a reporter asking him if he feels so strongly about Tesla that he’d even refuse a Tesla taxi and he responds “damn straight!”. It could also mean that same scenario but him unconfidently stammering out a “yes”, visibly anxious he will be taken out of context.

      In any case, I looked into it a bit and I found this article from a few weeks ago which this author seems to have used as a source:

      https://www.mestmotor.se/automotorsport/artiklar/nyheter/20231030/lofven-tanker-inte-aka-tesla-taxi-mer/

      First of all, I want to point out that the entire article along with everything the former PM said about Tesla and taxis is in Swedish (what do you know, yet another layer of ambiguity!). It matches this “Facebook post” referenced in the article (the “shame on you Tesla” stuff) in the very same paragraph as the taxi stuff, as well as containing some quotes that I could totally see a more “creative” journalist representing as “he said he wouldn’t even use a Tesla taxi anymore!”. Which is basically just that he called his preferred taxi company and asked them to make a note to never send him a Tesla taxi when he calls for one.

      22 votes
      1. [4]
        Malle
        Link Parent
        To provide some additional context for those who wish it, the Wired article links to a Facebook post by Stefan Löfven, which the Mest Motor article also refers to, but does not link. Stefan Löfven...
        • Exemplary

        To provide some additional context for those who wish it, the Wired article links to a Facebook post by Stefan Löfven, which the Mest Motor article also refers to, but does not link.

        Stefan Löfven was the party chairman of the Swedish Social Democrats 2012 - 2021, and prime minister of Sweden 2014 - 2021. The post on Facebook is from his account, saying:

        Så får vi veta att Tesla inte tänker teckna kollektivavtal här i Sverige. Det är en unken, förlegad syn på sina anställda och svaret kommer nu helt följdriktigt: IF Metall har enligt reglerna tidigare varslat om och nu påbörjat en strejk.

        Det borde vara självklart för ett företag att följa dom seder som finns i de länder man verkar men det ser ut som att Tesla har tänkt strunta i svensk arbetsmarknadsmodell. Det ser riktigt illa ut och företagets agerande måste naturligtvis både påtalas och motarbetas!

        Jag hoppas t ex att den som äger en Tesla hör av sig till företaget och påpekar att förutom hållbarhet för klimat och miljö ska också social hållbarhet gälla. Jag hoppas att den som kanske är på väg att köpa en Tesla säger att det köpet sätts i vänt-läge till avtal tecknats.

        Vi äger ingen bil men åker en del taxi. Jag åker naturligtvis med Taxi Stockholm som har kollektivavtal. Nu kontaktar jag dom och säger att dom får skicka något annat än Tesla, så länge det märket inte har kollektivavtal. Det kan vi bli många som gör oavsett vilket taxiföretag du använder.

        Detta har inte de anställda på Tesla jämfört med om de hade kollektivavtal:

        • Ett komplett paket med försäkringar hos Fora
        • Det omfattande omställningsstöd som finns i huvudavtalet mellan arbetsmarknadens parter
        • Lönerna ligger lägre än genomsnittet i Motorbranschavtalet
        • Utan kollektivavtal garanteras inte årliga löneökningar
        • De har inte möjlighet till deltidspension
        • De har inte heller arbetstidsförkortning
          Skäms Tesla, skäms!

        I apologize for the long Swedish section, but I prefer providing the source material easily accessible. My own translation:

        And so we get to know that Tesla does not intent to sign a collective agreement here in Sweden. It is a musty, obsolete view of their employees and the answer is now rightly this: [the trade union] IF Metall has in accordance with the rules already notified of and now started a strike.

        It should be self-evident to a business that they should follow the customs in the countries in which they operate but it looks like Tesla intends to ignore the Swedish labour market model. It looks really bad and the corporation's actions must naturally be both highlighted and counteracted!

        I hope for instance that whoever owns a Tesla contacts the corporation and points out that with respect to sustainability it is not only climate and environment that matters, but also social sustainability. I hope that whoever is considering buying a Tesla let's it be known that that purchase is put on hold until a [collective] agreement is signed.

        We don't own a car but we do take a taxi sometimes. Naturally, I use Taxi Stockholm which has signed a collective agreement. Now I contact them and tell them that they'll have to send something other than a Tesla as long as that brand does not have a collective agreement. Many of us could do so regardless of which taxi company we use.

        The employees of Tesla do not have the following things which they would have with a collective agreement:

        • A complete package of insurance with [the insurance company] Fora
        • The extensive support for change of vocation which are included in the main agreement between the parts of the labour market
        • The salaries are lower than average in [the collective agreement for the car- and truck industry]
        • Without collective agreements there is no guarantee for yearly salary increases
        • They do not have an opportunity for partial pension
        • Nor do they have [standard reduction of work hours]
          Shame, Tesla! Shame!

        Please note that the last section is a bit haphazard because the source does not parse that well syntactically. He opens the list with "these are things they are missing out on" but then not all of the bullet points follow that structure grammatically.

        15 votes
        1. [2]
          bloup
          Link Parent
          Oh wow, I didn’t even notice that tiny link on “said” to the Facebook post. That means the article I linked was actually unnecessary. Would have saved me a little bit of trouble!

          Oh wow, I didn’t even notice that tiny link on “said” to the Facebook post. That means the article I linked was actually unnecessary. Would have saved me a little bit of trouble!

          6 votes
          1. Malle
            Link Parent
            Veering bit off topic here, but I didn't notice it either until my second look so I can't exactly fault you for it. I wish linking etiquette was better, particularly when it comes to news sites...

            Veering bit off topic here, but I didn't notice it either until my second look so I can't exactly fault you for it.

            I wish linking etiquette was better, particularly when it comes to news sites sourcing their information. Make the link clearly visible either by formatting or by syntax, and make it clear what it refers to. Even just having the link cover the entirety of "he said on Facebook" instead of just the word "said" would have been a significant improvement.

            3 votes
        2. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          A small anecdotal comment in a detailed response to the topic. I can see why the reporter thought it was the most important thing to mention /s Overall a very good response though. Thanks for all...

          A small anecdotal comment in a detailed response to the topic. I can see why the reporter thought it was the most important thing to mention /s

          Overall a very good response though. Thanks for all the translation work!

          4 votes
    3. Malle
      Link Parent
      Can you elaborate on your understanding of the Swedish labour market model in general, as well as with applications to this situation in particular?

      Can you elaborate on your understanding of the Swedish labour market model in general, as well as with applications to this situation in particular?

      6 votes
  2. floweringmind
    Link
    I hope Tesla workers unionize every where.

    I hope Tesla workers unionize every where.

    7 votes