An EV camper is one of those use cases where 'just because you can doesnt mean you should'. The entire point of camping is to get away from the city and get out to nature where resources, like...
An EV camper is one of those use cases where 'just because you can doesnt mean you should'. The entire point of camping is to get away from the city and get out to nature where resources, like electricity, are scarce. I cant think of a more frustrating scenario of driving 250 miles only to find there's not an electrical outlet in sight and you're gonna have to get out a generator and run it for a day just to get to a plug in 50 miles back. I get the rationale but this is another one of those ideological ideas thats going to go nowhere.
People go camping in all sorts of places, not just absolute remote wilderness with no power in sight. In fact, I am fairly sure that a lot (if not the majority) of established camping grounds come...
People go camping in all sorts of places, not just absolute remote wilderness with no power in sight. In fact, I am fairly sure that a lot (if not the majority) of established camping grounds come with some form of power for EV charging these days.
People also use camper vans for other purposes, there is a whole subculture of van conversions to be used as living spaces (mobile tiny homes basically).
Besides, even if we assume absolutely no possibilities for charging on the trip. 125 miles brings you to some pretty rural places and is not an insignificant distance. Just to make sure I wasn't making anything up I had a look at the map and did some measuring. There are many cities around the US and Canada from where you can easily reach a national park or some other type of nature within 125 miles.
Many of those are along routes where you most certainly will be able to charge as well. For example from Vancouver you can easily reach Whistler and have plenty of charge left over. Or if you are looking to get out much further, Vancouver to Jasper National park would be a trip of roughly 480 miles. Something you wouldn't do in a single day, or if you did would do with plenty of stops. Along that entire route you can find charging stations.
I honestly find your comment really oddly dismissive. Sure using electric RVs you will face challenges you wouldn't have with an ICE RV. But, they aren't fundamentally incompatible with camping and other use cases.
I think Im dismissive because Ive seen several EV camper designs come and go already. They are all fine in theory but in practice, they either never make it to production or they sell so poorly...
I think Im dismissive because Ive seen several EV camper designs come and go already. They are all fine in theory but in practice, they either never make it to production or they sell so poorly that the company folds in short order.
I believe that the main factor is that when people go camping they want to relax. The entire point of 'getting away from it all' is to kick back, put your feet up, sit around the campfire and do nothing too strenuous while enjoying the great outdoors. EV travel outside the city is the antithesis of relaxing. Do I really want to spend a large chunk of money on a camper that doesnt give me options to do road trips longer than 100 miles without worry?
Anyone who has done a road trip of more than a couple of hours in an EV knows that job one is planning where and when you are going to recharge. That gets harder the further you get away from typical travel routes. And it gets very frustrating if you have to do it from a 120v plug cause even in a car you only gain maybe 2 or 3 miles in an hour of charging. But in a van that has more weight and less aerodynamics thats more likely to be 1 or 2 miles per hour of charging. So 100 mile trip back is 50 to 100 hours of charging? Yeah, thats not gonna fly.
If you have 240v power at a campground, charging will be faster for sure, but its still a pain compared to driving anywhere in an typical ICE camper and knowing you easily have the range to get home. And if not, you can carry a 5 gallon gas can as an easy 'range extender'
Its a great idea. On paper. I dont think it''ll fly in the real world. Thus my cynicism.
I forgot about this til now, but I actually have a deposit on a solar powered EV, the Aptera, which is also being touted as the ultimate road machine/camper since its has a large flat rear area and a purported tent option. https://www.reddit.com/r/carcamping/comments/ljgl7c/the_aptera_ev_1000mi_range_charges_by_solar/ The reason I forgot is that Ive been following this company for seven years and after multiple fundraising rounds, international press tours, display and test rides at the Consumer Electronics Show, gov grants and years of development work they STILL cant make it to production. And these guys are tenacious. Anything less doesnt have a hope.
That's all valid, but it is also very specifically your personal perspective. Which is a very narrowly defined very specific use case, where you basically dismissed the entire idea of EV RVs...
I believe that the main factor is that when people go camping they want to relax. The entire point of 'getting away from it all' is to kick back, put your feet up, sit around the campfire and do nothing too strenuous while enjoying the great outdoors. EV travel outside the city is the antithesis of relaxing. Do I really want to spend a large chunk of money on a camper that doesnt give me options to do road trips longer than 100 miles without worry?
That's all valid, but it is also very specifically your personal perspective. Which is a very narrowly defined very specific use case, where you basically dismissed the entire idea of EV RVs entirely in the comment I replied to. And that is what I did respond to. It might not fit your use case, which is fine, but that leaves a myriad of other use cases and perspectives on the table for others.
Well, Ill tell you what. I'll bet you $50 they never make it to production. Check back in a year :) Its not just my use case, its that people always love these ideas on paper, but when it comes to...
Well, Ill tell you what. I'll bet you $50 they never make it to production. Check back in a year :)
Its not just my use case, its that people always love these ideas on paper, but when it comes to actually shelling out 200k for the nice EV vs 120k for an ICE version, they change their minds. Which is why not a single EV camper has succeeded.
Obviously I am not going to take that bet ;) You made a very specific singular argument as your entire basis to dismiss the viability of EV RVs. I started a conversation to address how using such...
Obviously I am not going to take that bet ;)
You made a very specific singular argument as your entire basis to dismiss the viability of EV RVs. I started a conversation to address how using such a specific, narrow argument to dismiss an entire concept felt overly dismissive.
In your latest reply there is no hint that you have really read my reply, either positive or negative. Instead, I find myself reading a completely new argument combined with a bet. Why would I take a bet when I don't feel the person I am trying to have a conversation with is internalizing much of what I am saying?
I think I have been more than clear enough. So I'll leave the above feedback for your own consideration and am tapping out of this conversation.
Yeah, sorry Im not really debating your points and Im a little more argumentative than normal today. To justify my cranky answer I'm speaking from experience - Ive built 3 RVs and 2 campervans...
Yeah, sorry Im not really debating your points and Im a little more argumentative than normal today. To justify my cranky answer I'm speaking from experience - Ive built 3 RVs and 2 campervans from scratch including converting a 40' bus, I have camped in everything from a pup tent to a luxury motorhome since I was a kid, I have experience owning an EV for the last 7 years and Im an RV enthusiast as I read and follow RV blogs/forums weekly. I know that probably doesn't carry much water, but thats the experience that makes me say this just isn't a good idea except on paper. Didnt mean to be abrasive.
I'll take the bet. They're currently in production. They are modular changes to the GM Brightdrop, which has been in production since 2021. You may make a donation to a local charity in lieu of...
I'll take the bet. They're currently in production. They are modular changes to the GM Brightdrop, which has been in production since 2021.
You may make a donation to a local charity in lieu of sending payment to me.
Edit for pedantry: Brightdrops are currently paused in production. GM says this is to change the plant to release the 2026 G3 version. That said, you can currently buy a Grounded RV; they have a good supply of them in G1 or G2.
I have no problem making a donation (good idea) but you're gonna have to convince me they're in production. Got a pic of more than one completed unit? I should've been a little more precise as I...
I have no problem making a donation (good idea) but you're gonna have to convince me they're in production. Got a pic of more than one completed unit?
I should've been a little more precise as I dont really consider a couple of units "in production" as everyone has to make prototypes to get sales. But I wasnt precise so Ill be satisfied with proof of more than one prototype as being 'in production'.
Do you want proof of brightdrop production or proof that this company is making multiple custom vans on top of brightdrops? Grounded RV have built 10 custom jobs for customers in 2024 - this link...
Do you want proof of brightdrop production or proof that this company is making multiple custom vans on top of brightdrops?
Grounded RV have built 10 custom jobs for customers in 2024 - this link includes multiple pictures. That does not the work vans or demos that they have made for auto shows. I would editorialize that 10 custom electric van builds - camper or not - is actually a pretty productive year for a small company.
Brightdrops have shipped at least 500 noted in this article.
Edit: also, I was being very glib. I do not expect an internet bet like this to be binding.
Well, I'll give them credit for building 10 custom vans. But I also note that of the pictures of the vans shown, they ALL look like they were built for commercial customers of one type or another...
Well, I'll give them credit for building 10 custom vans. But I also note that of the pictures of the vans shown, they ALL look like they were built for commercial customers of one type or another - one is a portable health clinic for babies, one says "Climate Tech Cocktails" on the side, another says "The Hive Technology". They mention their 'luxury hotel on wheels' which they are touring around the country to display to customers, but only ONE van built as a RV and that's for a rental company Rollaway.
So I would agree that they have indeed built ONE RV. I think I could make a case that they aren't an RV company though - from what I can tell they havent had a single customer buy their RV for personal use, (correct me if Im wrong) which doesnt surprise me as they appear to start at about 200k.I dont think they're about to put Forest River or Thor Industries out of business.
Nonetheless they are in production of something, most accurately custom vans, so I only stand half corrected (slight smile) that they are building "electric RVs" in any kind of traditional sense of the concept of an RV. Nonetheless, I will send some bucks to a local animal rescue shelter in a bid to cleanse my guilt and assuage my detractors :)
Sorry, I did put this in an edit in a comment above - I was being very glib, and I don't mean to hold you to the bet. I do think that you added in a bunch of things that aren't claimed by the...
Sorry, I did put this in an edit in a comment above - I was being very glib, and I don't mean to hold you to the bet.
I do think that you added in a bunch of things that aren't claimed by the company, and argued against them? Grounded makes recreational and work vehicles - there's both on the site, which is what was linked - and you claimed they wouldn't make it to production. You added in a bunch of stuff about recreational vehicles, some of which I don't disagree with, to be clear, and I'm not trying to address any of that. The only thing I wanted to highlight was that this isn't an idealistic "we want to build this" company; it's a real company that ships real units to real people, not something that isn't going to make it to production. They have already produced the thing that the website is claiming.
My entire argument was about how it was impractical to have an EV RV camper, as its not economically viable - Ive seen it tried and fail before. If they've only sold one and that was only to a...
An EV camper is one of those use cases where 'just because you can doesnt mean you should'. ...I get the rationale but this is another one of those ideological ideas thats going to go nowhere.
Its not just my use case, its that people always love these ideas on paper, but when it comes to actually shelling out 200k for the nice EV vs 120k for an ICE version, they change their minds. Which is why not a single EV camper has succeeded.
My entire argument was about how it was impractical to have an EV RV camper, as its not economically viable - Ive seen it tried and fail before. If they've only sold one and that was only to a commercial RV rental company Id say they are in line with every other company that has tried this and failed. Its just not a viable concept for RV camping.
I understand that you are arguing that a company cannot survive if they only make EV rec vehicles or campers. However, this company doesn't do that. You introduced that idea into this comment...
I understand that you are arguing that a company cannot survive if they only make EV rec vehicles or campers. However, this company doesn't do that. You introduced that idea into this comment chain and to make your point, you said, " I'll bet you $50 they never make it to production." But the product of this company is currently in production and has been for 18 months or more, because they have chosen a business model which isn't the thing that you are arguing about.
If you had said, "I'll bet $50 that no company that only makes electric RVs would survive." I would not said anything, because I agree. But that's not what this company is doing, or what you said. They are doing modular interior renovations to another product, so you can get a van that's good for work, you can get a van that's good for a company that wants to be mobile, you can get an RV.
Again, I'm not saying that you are held to this bet - indeed, it's totally not enforceable in any way - but my broader point is that one should be careful especially when claiming to put money where one's mouth is that one's mouth is saying what you want it to say.
Personally, my ultimate version of this in 20 years would be something like the TARDIS from Doctor Who, where I could set it to drive somewhere random overnight, wake up somewhere and explore the...
Personally, my ultimate version of this in 20 years would be something like the TARDIS from Doctor Who, where I could set it to drive somewhere random overnight, wake up somewhere and explore the area, then do it again the next day. Completely unrealistic? Probably, but a dream is a dream.
Found this company that is doing boutique conversion for Chevrolet Brightdrop Vans into full blown Campers. An electric RV would be an interesting mobile residence, probably more trouble than it's...
Found this company that is doing boutique conversion for Chevrolet Brightdrop Vans into full blown Campers. An electric RV would be an interesting mobile residence, probably more trouble than it's worth, but it's fun to think about.
An EV camper is one of those use cases where 'just because you can doesnt mean you should'. The entire point of camping is to get away from the city and get out to nature where resources, like electricity, are scarce. I cant think of a more frustrating scenario of driving 250 miles only to find there's not an electrical outlet in sight and you're gonna have to get out a generator and run it for a day just to get to a plug in 50 miles back. I get the rationale but this is another one of those ideological ideas thats going to go nowhere.
People go camping in all sorts of places, not just absolute remote wilderness with no power in sight. In fact, I am fairly sure that a lot (if not the majority) of established camping grounds come with some form of power for EV charging these days.
People also use camper vans for other purposes, there is a whole subculture of van conversions to be used as living spaces (mobile tiny homes basically).
Besides, even if we assume absolutely no possibilities for charging on the trip. 125 miles brings you to some pretty rural places and is not an insignificant distance. Just to make sure I wasn't making anything up I had a look at the map and did some measuring. There are many cities around the US and Canada from where you can easily reach a national park or some other type of nature within 125 miles.
Many of those are along routes where you most certainly will be able to charge as well. For example from Vancouver you can easily reach Whistler and have plenty of charge left over. Or if you are looking to get out much further, Vancouver to Jasper National park would be a trip of roughly 480 miles. Something you wouldn't do in a single day, or if you did would do with plenty of stops. Along that entire route you can find charging stations.
I honestly find your comment really oddly dismissive. Sure using electric RVs you will face challenges you wouldn't have with an ICE RV. But, they aren't fundamentally incompatible with camping and other use cases.
I think Im dismissive because Ive seen several EV camper designs come and go already. They are all fine in theory but in practice, they either never make it to production or they sell so poorly that the company folds in short order.
I believe that the main factor is that when people go camping they want to relax. The entire point of 'getting away from it all' is to kick back, put your feet up, sit around the campfire and do nothing too strenuous while enjoying the great outdoors. EV travel outside the city is the antithesis of relaxing. Do I really want to spend a large chunk of money on a camper that doesnt give me options to do road trips longer than 100 miles without worry?
Anyone who has done a road trip of more than a couple of hours in an EV knows that job one is planning where and when you are going to recharge. That gets harder the further you get away from typical travel routes. And it gets very frustrating if you have to do it from a 120v plug cause even in a car you only gain maybe 2 or 3 miles in an hour of charging. But in a van that has more weight and less aerodynamics thats more likely to be 1 or 2 miles per hour of charging. So 100 mile trip back is 50 to 100 hours of charging? Yeah, thats not gonna fly.
If you have 240v power at a campground, charging will be faster for sure, but its still a pain compared to driving anywhere in an typical ICE camper and knowing you easily have the range to get home. And if not, you can carry a 5 gallon gas can as an easy 'range extender'
Its a great idea. On paper. I dont think it''ll fly in the real world. Thus my cynicism.
I forgot about this til now, but I actually have a deposit on a solar powered EV, the Aptera, which is also being touted as the ultimate road machine/camper since its has a large flat rear area and a purported tent option. https://www.reddit.com/r/carcamping/comments/ljgl7c/the_aptera_ev_1000mi_range_charges_by_solar/ The reason I forgot is that Ive been following this company for seven years and after multiple fundraising rounds, international press tours, display and test rides at the Consumer Electronics Show, gov grants and years of development work they STILL cant make it to production. And these guys are tenacious. Anything less doesnt have a hope.
That's all valid, but it is also very specifically your personal perspective. Which is a very narrowly defined very specific use case, where you basically dismissed the entire idea of EV RVs entirely in the comment I replied to. And that is what I did respond to. It might not fit your use case, which is fine, but that leaves a myriad of other use cases and perspectives on the table for others.
Well, Ill tell you what. I'll bet you $50 they never make it to production. Check back in a year :)
Its not just my use case, its that people always love these ideas on paper, but when it comes to actually shelling out 200k for the nice EV vs 120k for an ICE version, they change their minds. Which is why not a single EV camper has succeeded.
Obviously I am not going to take that bet ;)
You made a very specific singular argument as your entire basis to dismiss the viability of EV RVs. I started a conversation to address how using such a specific, narrow argument to dismiss an entire concept felt overly dismissive.
In your latest reply there is no hint that you have really read my reply, either positive or negative. Instead, I find myself reading a completely new argument combined with a bet. Why would I take a bet when I don't feel the person I am trying to have a conversation with is internalizing much of what I am saying?
I think I have been more than clear enough. So I'll leave the above feedback for your own consideration and am tapping out of this conversation.
Yeah, sorry Im not really debating your points and Im a little more argumentative than normal today. To justify my cranky answer I'm speaking from experience - Ive built 3 RVs and 2 campervans from scratch including converting a 40' bus, I have camped in everything from a pup tent to a luxury motorhome since I was a kid, I have experience owning an EV for the last 7 years and Im an RV enthusiast as I read and follow RV blogs/forums weekly. I know that probably doesn't carry much water, but thats the experience that makes me say this just isn't a good idea except on paper. Didnt mean to be abrasive.
I'll take the bet. They're currently in production. They are modular changes to the GM Brightdrop, which has been in production since 2021.
You may make a donation to a local charity in lieu of sending payment to me.
Edit for pedantry: Brightdrops are currently paused in production. GM says this is to change the plant to release the 2026 G3 version. That said, you can currently buy a Grounded RV; they have a good supply of them in G1 or G2.
I have no problem making a donation (good idea) but you're gonna have to convince me they're in production. Got a pic of more than one completed unit?
I should've been a little more precise as I dont really consider a couple of units "in production" as everyone has to make prototypes to get sales. But I wasnt precise so Ill be satisfied with proof of more than one prototype as being 'in production'.
Do you want proof of brightdrop production or proof that this company is making multiple custom vans on top of brightdrops?
Grounded RV have built 10 custom jobs for customers in 2024 - this link includes multiple pictures. That does not the work vans or demos that they have made for auto shows. I would editorialize that 10 custom electric van builds - camper or not - is actually a pretty productive year for a small company.
Brightdrops have shipped at least 500 noted in this article.
Edit: also, I was being very glib. I do not expect an internet bet like this to be binding.
Well, I'll give them credit for building 10 custom vans. But I also note that of the pictures of the vans shown, they ALL look like they were built for commercial customers of one type or another - one is a portable health clinic for babies, one says "Climate Tech Cocktails" on the side, another says "The Hive Technology". They mention their 'luxury hotel on wheels' which they are touring around the country to display to customers, but only ONE van built as a RV and that's for a rental company Rollaway.
So I would agree that they have indeed built ONE RV. I think I could make a case that they aren't an RV company though - from what I can tell they havent had a single customer buy their RV for personal use, (correct me if Im wrong) which doesnt surprise me as they appear to start at about 200k.I dont think they're about to put Forest River or Thor Industries out of business.
Nonetheless they are in production of something, most accurately custom vans, so I only stand half corrected (slight smile) that they are building "electric RVs" in any kind of traditional sense of the concept of an RV. Nonetheless, I will send some bucks to a local animal rescue shelter in a bid to cleanse my guilt and assuage my detractors :)
Sorry, I did put this in an edit in a comment above - I was being very glib, and I don't mean to hold you to the bet.
I do think that you added in a bunch of things that aren't claimed by the company, and argued against them? Grounded makes recreational and work vehicles - there's both on the site, which is what was linked - and you claimed they wouldn't make it to production. You added in a bunch of stuff about recreational vehicles, some of which I don't disagree with, to be clear, and I'm not trying to address any of that. The only thing I wanted to highlight was that this isn't an idealistic "we want to build this" company; it's a real company that ships real units to real people, not something that isn't going to make it to production. They have already produced the thing that the website is claiming.
My entire argument was about how it was impractical to have an EV RV camper, as its not economically viable - Ive seen it tried and fail before. If they've only sold one and that was only to a commercial RV rental company Id say they are in line with every other company that has tried this and failed. Its just not a viable concept for RV camping.
I understand that you are arguing that a company cannot survive if they only make EV rec vehicles or campers. However, this company doesn't do that. You introduced that idea into this comment chain and to make your point, you said, " I'll bet you $50 they never make it to production." But the product of this company is currently in production and has been for 18 months or more, because they have chosen a business model which isn't the thing that you are arguing about.
If you had said, "I'll bet $50 that no company that only makes electric RVs would survive." I would not said anything, because I agree. But that's not what this company is doing, or what you said. They are doing modular interior renovations to another product, so you can get a van that's good for work, you can get a van that's good for a company that wants to be mobile, you can get an RV.
Again, I'm not saying that you are held to this bet - indeed, it's totally not enforceable in any way - but my broader point is that one should be careful especially when claiming to put money where one's mouth is that one's mouth is saying what you want it to say.
I thought I was clear about that, but I take your point.
Personally, my ultimate version of this in 20 years would be something like the TARDIS from Doctor Who, where I could set it to drive somewhere random overnight, wake up somewhere and explore the area, then do it again the next day. Completely unrealistic? Probably, but a dream is a dream.
Found this company that is doing boutique conversion for Chevrolet Brightdrop Vans into full blown Campers. An electric RV would be an interesting mobile residence, probably more trouble than it's worth, but it's fun to think about.