From (some of) the people who brought us Red Dwarf, The Job Lot (underrated), Ghosts, Dead Pixels, The Outlaws, Friday Night Dinner and many more. Also all of those actors off that thing they were...
From (some of) the people who brought us Red Dwarf, The Job Lot (underrated), Ghosts, Dead Pixels, The Outlaws, Friday Night Dinner and many more. Also all of those actors off that thing they were in.
I fail to see how this can be anything but great, stupid, fun. The daft historical comedy format has been a staple of British TV for a very long time and I'm glad to see it being done again. The presence of various Horrible Histories people on the cast/crew list is reassuring, they are all so good.
"I want this Dick in my hands as soon as possible" <snickering in the background> Oh, British comedy, never change. My friend, Biggus Dickus, and his wife Incontinentia... Incontinentia Buttocks!
Also dick jokes.
"I want this Dick in my hands as soon as possible" <snickering in the background>
I'm not sure I agree. The US has some amazing TV. What they tend to do well is long-form stories in a way the UK just can't. The canonical examples always given are The Sopranos and The Wire, but...
British TV is far superior to US TV.
I'm not sure I agree. The US has some amazing TV. What they tend to do well is long-form stories in a way the UK just can't. The canonical examples always given are The Sopranos and The Wire, but there has been countless hours of really high quality TV coming out of the US since then. US comedies don't work for me quite so much, but there's still gems like Community, The Office (honestly, so much better than the UK version) and so on.
Also you get the stuff the UK chooses to export. What you don't see is the junk which makes up the rest of the schedules. You get the IT Crowd, not Mrs Brown's Boys; you get Gangs of London, not Eastenders.
However I do think BBC Natural History documentaries are the best in the world. Everything else is up for discussion.
I agree, I've never seen a British drama that I would rank as highly as Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul. The comedies we get though are exceptional and easily stand toe-to-toe with our best.
I agree, I've never seen a British drama that I would rank as highly as Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul.
The comedies we get though are exceptional and easily stand toe-to-toe with our best.
Peaky Blinders, Penny Dreadful, Taboo, Broadchurch, Sherlock, Black Mirror, Humans, Queer as Folk (although the American version was actually decent). They may not have the huge budget American...
I've never seen a British drama that I would rank as highly as Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul
Peaky Blinders, Penny Dreadful, Taboo, Broadchurch, Sherlock, Black Mirror, Humans, Queer as Folk (although the American version was actually decent). They may not have the huge budget American shows have, or typically run as long, but the writing and acting is often just as good, if not better, IMO. I am a sucker for a British accent though, so I'm definitely biased in that regard. :P
I would add Life on Mars and It's a Sin to that list, just off the top of my head. Not Sherlock though. That show was complete garbage and here's why. What the UK doesn't tend to do is long form...
I would add Life on Mars and It's a Sin to that list, just off the top of my head. Not Sherlock though. That show was complete garbage and here's why.
What the UK doesn't tend to do is long form stuff like Breaking Bad. You can certainly tell a great story in eight episodes, especially if you're the BBC and get a full hour per ep, but there are nearly 47 hours of Breaking Bad over 60+ episodes. Having that much space to let things breathe allows for such a huge amount of character development and complex storytelling.
I haven't clicked your link but I would bet $100.00 that I know what it leads to. It's frustrating how thorough and correct he is about all of the issues with that show (and with Moffat's Doctor...
I haven't clicked your link but I would bet $100.00 that I know what it leads to. It's frustrating how thorough and correct he is about all of the issues with that show (and with Moffat's Doctor run) because I was absolutely one of those fans that kept waiting for it to get better, and now I can't complain about the fact that it didn't without sounding like I'm just parroting HBomb.
Ditto... although I wouldn't watch anything new by Graham Linehan, since he's lost his fucking mind, and turned into full-on hate-monger these days. Apparently even his family refuses to associate...
Ditto... although I wouldn't watch anything new by Graham Linehan, since he's lost his fucking mind, and turned into full-on hate-monger these days. Apparently even his family refuses to associate with him anymore.
Hard agree. Though I've ultimately decided to continue to enjoy The IT Crowd for all the other awesome people that made it. Side note: Anyone who finds themselves reading this should do themselves...
Hard agree. Though I've ultimately decided to continue to enjoy The IT Crowd for all the other awesome people that made it.
Side note: Anyone who finds themselves reading this should do themselves a favor and watch Garth Marenghi's Darkplace
A friend of mine lives near Linners and regularly sees him stumbling out of the local off-licence carrying an unhealthy amount of red wine and looking like absolute shit. I don't believe in karma...
A friend of mine lives near Linners and regularly sees him stumbling out of the local off-licence carrying an unhealthy amount of red wine and looking like absolute shit. I don't believe in karma but y'know. Not feeling a lot of sympathy for the guy.
Noel Fielding's Luxury Comedy was pretty weak. But he was coming off a fairly rapid rise to fame with The Mighty Boosh (still his best work) and, I suspect, doing a LOT of cocaine. Fielding is at...
Noel Fielding's Luxury Comedy was pretty weak. But he was coming off a fairly rapid rise to fame with The Mighty Boosh (still his best work) and, I suspect, doing a LOT of cocaine. Fielding is at his best when he's on a bit of a leash, I think. He needs a Howard Moon to his Vince Noir - or, as it looks like in this, the fantastic Ellie White, who I think is criminally under-rated and I hope gets lots of work after this.
To give different review, of someone who was rather disappointed: Ultimately, I feel like this really just isn't to my taste in comedy. And that's fine: I'm sure it is to other people. I often...
To give different review, of someone who was rather disappointed:
Ultimately, I feel like this really just isn't to my taste in comedy. And that's fine: I'm sure it is to other people. I often enjoy absurd comedy, but here the absurdism seems rather trite, and the extreme presentism heavy-handed.
But, beyond that, the portrayal of Turpin, and the entire Essex Gang—real historical characters—as being kind-hearted, mostly non-violent do-gooders who chanced into highway robbery but generally rob only unsympathetic, rich characters, and are trying to be different and nice, is unsettling. Ultimately, the Essex Gang were robbers, and Turpin was first a robber and then, after the breakup of the gang, a highwayman. They were violent, and were not robbing aristocrats. Here's Wikipedia's description of one of their robberies:
On 4 February 1735 he [Turpin] met John Fielder, Samuel Gregory, Joseph Rose, and John Wheeler, at an inn along The Broadway in London. They planned to rob the house of Joseph Lawrence, a farmer at Earlsbury Farm in Edgware. Late that afternoon, after stopping twice along the way for food and drink, they captured a shepherd boy and burst into the house, armed with pistols. They bound the two maidservants, and brutally attacked the 70-year-old farmer. They pulled his breeches around his ankles, and dragged him around the house, but Lawrence refused to reveal the whereabouts of his money. Turpin beat Lawrence's bare buttocks with his pistols, badly bruising him, and other members of the gang beat him around the head with their pistols. They emptied a kettle of water over his head, forced him to sit bare-buttocked on the fire, and pulled him around the house by his nose, and hair. Gregory took one of the maidservants upstairs and raped her. For their trouble, the gang escaped with a haul of less than £30 (equivalent to £5,015 in 2021).
The portrayal of an out-of-place, kind-hearted person in a violent world worked, arguably, with Our Flag Means Death because the historical Stede Bonnet was an unusual, out-of-place figure. And there, the contrast between his naivety and the brutality of those around him, his romantic view of a violent profession and the actual violence of the profession, is a significant theme.
I had thought that the 'completely made up' portion of the title might be involved in that aspect, either with Turpin the unreliable narrator clearly coming up with stories that make him seem far better and kinder than he was, or with Turpin arguing against what he saw as unfair depictions of him. Or even something contrasting a bumbling Turpin with the romantic depictions of him in 19th century gothic literature. I also initially thought the narrative would be framed around tales Turpin told while waiting to be hanged, in the way the initial episode started. Instead, the show is simply an uncomplicated portrayal of Turpin as a kind-hearted, non-violent, good person with entirely contemporary, progressive views. The unreliable narrator aspect largely seems to have been dropped after the first episode, and even there, seems to suggest a reality where Turpin is even nicer and less violent than he claims.
Not all comedy needs to be complicated, and there is a place for the saccharine and absurd. But there's something that just feels off about making an uncomplicated, saccharine comedy about real, violent criminals who beat, raped, and murdered people. Yes, there was rampant systemic inequality and poverty to consider, and a need to survive. But still: these were real, violent criminals who beat, raped, and murdered people, and this show is presenting them as contemporary progressive paragons, seemingly without any acknowledgement of the reality. At least coming up with entirely fictional characters would avoid these problematic links to specific people.
I understand the desire to be sensitive towards crimes, victims of said crimes, and not wanting to glorify violent criminals or their deeds, but to me your line of criticism seems a bit ridiculous...
I understand the desire to be sensitive towards crimes, victims of said crimes, and not wanting to glorify violent criminals or their deeds, but to me your line of criticism seems a bit ridiculous and feels incredibly overly sensitive given the timeframe. Dick Turpin may have been a real historical figure that committed some genuinely horrific deeds, but that was in the 1700s! None of his victims or even the great-great-grandchildren of his victims are alive anymore to be offended by this show.
And for that reason, IMO, distance in time has to be considered a factor in how offended we get over comedic portrayals of nefarious historical figures. But depending on the portrayal, and its purpose, even a lengthy distance is not strictly necessarily in some cases. E.g. Mel Brooks included Springtime For Hitler in The Producers in 1967, and he's Jewish, and actually served in the US Army in WW2. And as he famously said (Brooks, not Hitler), "By using the medium of comedy, we can try to rob Hitler of his posthumous power and myths." And I agree. By treating Hitler as some boogeyman to be feared, and forbidding anyone to make light of him, you just make him more appealing to assholes who covet that same sort of power. But by treating Hitler as the butt of a joke, as a figure to be openly mocked and ridiculed, you rob him of some of that posthumous power, and can also make worship of him far less appealing.
At least coming up with entirely fictional characters would avoid these problematic links to specific people
Since I'm assuming you're American, and so you may not be aware, it's worth noting is that in the UK, much like Robin Hood or Guy Fawkes, Dick Turpin is already seen as far more of a fictional, legendary figure than a real historical figure. He's been featured as a character in everything from Penny Dreadfuls (arguably the most famous Penny Dreadful in history, Black Bess, is about Turpin!) to Plays to Movies to older TV Shows. There was a wax figure made of him in Madame Tussauds in London during the Victorian Era, and a street is even named after him! So it's not like this latest show is a new take on the character, the first to romanticize him or his crimes (Highwaymen are exceptionally popular in English folklore!), or even the first to satirize him and make light of his crimes. And it's not like people are going to watch this new show, see the real life Turpin as some sort of hero or role model because of it, and suddenly be inspired to go out into the wilds to waylay some aristocrat's coach! :P
That first episode had me rolling my eyes with that man in a dress but, but damn he pulled off that look. I’m kind of jealous. I don’t know if I’m going to continue though. It gave me little...
That first episode had me rolling my eyes with that man in a dress but, but damn he pulled off that look. I’m kind of jealous.
I don’t know if I’m going to continue though. It gave me little chuckles and not the big belly laughs I was expecting.
From (some of) the people who brought us Red Dwarf, The Job Lot (underrated), Ghosts, Dead Pixels, The Outlaws, Friday Night Dinner and many more. Also all of those actors off that thing they were in.
I fail to see how this can be anything but great, stupid, fun. The daft historical comedy format has been a staple of British TV for a very long time and I'm glad to see it being done again. The presence of various Horrible Histories people on the cast/crew list is reassuring, they are all so good.
Also dick jokes.
"I want this Dick in my hands as soon as possible" <snickering in the background>
Oh, British comedy, never change. My friend, Biggus Dickus, and his wife Incontinentia... Incontinentia Buttocks!
I'm not sure I agree. The US has some amazing TV. What they tend to do well is long-form stories in a way the UK just can't. The canonical examples always given are The Sopranos and The Wire, but there has been countless hours of really high quality TV coming out of the US since then. US comedies don't work for me quite so much, but there's still gems like Community, The Office (honestly, so much better than the UK version) and so on.
Also you get the stuff the UK chooses to export. What you don't see is the junk which makes up the rest of the schedules. You get the IT Crowd, not Mrs Brown's Boys; you get Gangs of London, not Eastenders.
However I do think BBC Natural History documentaries are the best in the world. Everything else is up for discussion.
I agree, I've never seen a British drama that I would rank as highly as Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul.
The comedies we get though are exceptional and easily stand toe-to-toe with our best.
Peaky Blinders, Penny Dreadful, Taboo, Broadchurch, Sherlock, Black Mirror, Humans, Queer as Folk (although the American version was actually decent). They may not have the huge budget American shows have, or typically run as long, but the writing and acting is often just as good, if not better, IMO. I am a sucker for a British accent though, so I'm definitely biased in that regard. :P
I would add Life on Mars and It's a Sin to that list, just off the top of my head. Not Sherlock though. That show was complete garbage and here's why.
What the UK doesn't tend to do is long form stuff like Breaking Bad. You can certainly tell a great story in eight episodes, especially if you're the BBC and get a full hour per ep, but there are nearly 47 hours of Breaking Bad over 60+ episodes. Having that much space to let things breathe allows for such a huge amount of character development and complex storytelling.
I haven't clicked your link but I would bet $100.00 that I know what it leads to. It's frustrating how thorough and correct he is about all of the issues with that show (and with Moffat's Doctor run) because I was absolutely one of those fans that kept waiting for it to get better, and now I can't complain about the fact that it didn't without sounding like I'm just parroting HBomb.
Edit: I was right.
That video is great! The idea of a show endlessly baiting for something cool and never delivering reminded me of Lost.
They had me at Noel Fielding. TBH, I think I would watch anything starring anyone from The IT Crowd without a question.
Ditto... although I wouldn't watch anything new by Graham Linehan, since he's lost his fucking mind, and turned into full-on hate-monger these days. Apparently even his family refuses to associate with him anymore.
Hard agree. Though I've ultimately decided to continue to enjoy The IT Crowd for all the other awesome people that made it.
Side note: Anyone who finds themselves reading this should do themselves a favor and watch Garth Marenghi's Darkplace
A friend of mine lives near Linners and regularly sees him stumbling out of the local off-licence carrying an unhealthy amount of red wine and looking like absolute shit. I don't believe in karma but y'know. Not feeling a lot of sympathy for the guy.
Noel Fielding's Luxury Comedy was pretty weak. But he was coming off a fairly rapid rise to fame with The Mighty Boosh (still his best work) and, I suspect, doing a LOT of cocaine. Fielding is at his best when he's on a bit of a leash, I think. He needs a Howard Moon to his Vince Noir - or, as it looks like in this, the fantastic Ellie White, who I think is criminally under-rated and I hope gets lots of work after this.
The first episodes are out! We watched the first three last night and were laughing riotously. Definitely worth checking out!
To give different review, of someone who was rather disappointed:
Ultimately, I feel like this really just isn't to my taste in comedy. And that's fine: I'm sure it is to other people. I often enjoy absurd comedy, but here the absurdism seems rather trite, and the extreme presentism heavy-handed.
But, beyond that, the portrayal of Turpin, and the entire Essex Gang—real historical characters—as being kind-hearted, mostly non-violent do-gooders who chanced into highway robbery but generally rob only unsympathetic, rich characters, and are trying to be different and nice, is unsettling. Ultimately, the Essex Gang were robbers, and Turpin was first a robber and then, after the breakup of the gang, a highwayman. They were violent, and were not robbing aristocrats. Here's Wikipedia's description of one of their robberies:
The portrayal of an out-of-place, kind-hearted person in a violent world worked, arguably, with Our Flag Means Death because the historical Stede Bonnet was an unusual, out-of-place figure. And there, the contrast between his naivety and the brutality of those around him, his romantic view of a violent profession and the actual violence of the profession, is a significant theme.
I had thought that the 'completely made up' portion of the title might be involved in that aspect, either with Turpin the unreliable narrator clearly coming up with stories that make him seem far better and kinder than he was, or with Turpin arguing against what he saw as unfair depictions of him. Or even something contrasting a bumbling Turpin with the romantic depictions of him in 19th century gothic literature. I also initially thought the narrative would be framed around tales Turpin told while waiting to be hanged, in the way the initial episode started. Instead, the show is simply an uncomplicated portrayal of Turpin as a kind-hearted, non-violent, good person with entirely contemporary, progressive views. The unreliable narrator aspect largely seems to have been dropped after the first episode, and even there, seems to suggest a reality where Turpin is even nicer and less violent than he claims.
Not all comedy needs to be complicated, and there is a place for the saccharine and absurd. But there's something that just feels off about making an uncomplicated, saccharine comedy about real, violent criminals who beat, raped, and murdered people. Yes, there was rampant systemic inequality and poverty to consider, and a need to survive. But still: these were real, violent criminals who beat, raped, and murdered people, and this show is presenting them as contemporary progressive paragons, seemingly without any acknowledgement of the reality. At least coming up with entirely fictional characters would avoid these problematic links to specific people.
I understand the desire to be sensitive towards crimes, victims of said crimes, and not wanting to glorify violent criminals or their deeds, but to me your line of criticism seems a bit ridiculous and feels incredibly overly sensitive given the timeframe. Dick Turpin may have been a real historical figure that committed some genuinely horrific deeds, but that was in the 1700s! None of his victims or even the great-great-grandchildren of his victims are alive anymore to be offended by this show.
And for that reason, IMO, distance in time has to be considered a factor in how offended we get over comedic portrayals of nefarious historical figures. But depending on the portrayal, and its purpose, even a lengthy distance is not strictly necessarily in some cases. E.g. Mel Brooks included Springtime For Hitler in The Producers in 1967, and he's Jewish, and actually served in the US Army in WW2. And as he famously said (Brooks, not Hitler), "By using the medium of comedy, we can try to rob Hitler of his posthumous power and myths." And I agree. By treating Hitler as some boogeyman to be feared, and forbidding anyone to make light of him, you just make him more appealing to assholes who covet that same sort of power. But by treating Hitler as the butt of a joke, as a figure to be openly mocked and ridiculed, you rob him of some of that posthumous power, and can also make worship of him far less appealing.
Since I'm assuming you're American, and so you may not be aware, it's worth noting is that in the UK, much like Robin Hood or Guy Fawkes, Dick Turpin is already seen as far more of a fictional, legendary figure than a real historical figure. He's been featured as a character in everything from Penny Dreadfuls (arguably the most famous Penny Dreadful in history, Black Bess, is about Turpin!) to Plays to Movies to older TV Shows. There was a wax figure made of him in Madame Tussauds in London during the Victorian Era, and a street is even named after him! So it's not like this latest show is a new take on the character, the first to romanticize him or his crimes (Highwaymen are exceptionally popular in English folklore!), or even the first to satirize him and make light of his crimes. And it's not like people are going to watch this new show, see the real life Turpin as some sort of hero or role model because of it, and suddenly be inspired to go out into the wilds to waylay some aristocrat's coach! :P
That first episode had me rolling my eyes with that man in a dress but, but damn he pulled off that look. I’m kind of jealous.
I don’t know if I’m going to continue though. It gave me little chuckles and not the big belly laughs I was expecting.