KilgoreSalmon's recent activity
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Comment on “I run the world’s largest historical outreach project and it’s on a cesspool of a website.” Moderating a public scholarship site on Reddit: A case study of r/AskHistorians in ~tech
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Comment on “I run the world’s largest historical outreach project and it’s on a cesspool of a website.” Moderating a public scholarship site on Reddit: A case study of r/AskHistorians in ~tech
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentThanks! Qualitative research is an especially slow process and I'm really happy with the paper and how its been received. Honestly, it's been a while since I tuned in and even longer since I...Thanks! Qualitative research is an especially slow process and I'm really happy with the paper and how its been received.
Honestly, it's been a while since I tuned in and even longer since I actively participated, and since the community's probably grown and developed in my absence, my Tildes knowledge is too out of date to provide any community specific insights. Plus, all the stuff I would normally suggest, like absolute freedom of speech being problem, Deimos has already done. Or things like, "listen to and support your moderators" aren't really relevant to Tildes yet, or perhaps ever, if I'm recalling the moderation plan correctly.
Personally (as a user rather than a scholar) I found myself drifting away because while Tildes was overwhelmingly a good space, at the time there was only one, maybe two users who were identifiable as women (Kat's the one I remember, but I think there was someone else too). It's hard to explain the effect that has, other than maybe lonely? I'd defaulted to my typical habit of choosing a male or gender ambiguous username when I created my account, but regretted not choosing something more female sounding after. I wonder if I had, perhaps it would have signaled to the other "hidden" women, "hey, I'm here!" which would have felt a bit less isolating for all of us. But even with Tildes' emphasis on civility, it's hard to overcome habitual precautions you take to protect yourself from the usual problems associated with being a woman on the internet. Building an online community from scratch and encouraging participation is hard and its even harder still to build it among populations that aren't always treated kindly outside of special interest groups, especially when you're also contending with ~30 years of baggage.
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Comment on “I run the world’s largest historical outreach project and it’s on a cesspool of a website.” Moderating a public scholarship site on Reddit: A case study of r/AskHistorians in ~tech
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentSo, I'm the author of the study (I sent a message with to dubteedub with my u/SarahAGilbert account so they can confirm). I really like this analogy. Before I got involved with AskHistorians (I'm...So, I'm the author of the study (I sent a message with to dubteedub with my u/SarahAGilbert account so they can confirm). I really like this analogy. Before I got involved with AskHistorians (I'm actually a mod there now too), they did a census and found out that the "mall browsing" you describe is how most people access the sub. There's a small core who go to the sub and browse from its home page, but most only see questions when they're upvoted and pushed into their home feed or r/all—which presents a huge challenge because it takes a long time to properly answer a question and people get pissed waiting. In addition to the comments we remove that I talk about in the paper (because I was given access to them for one particular thread), we also get cranky modmails and really nasty reports.
There's definitely been talk about moving sites. It came up during my interviews (which I did back in 2017), but ultimately the audience and the network effect are hugely important. There's also the educational aspect to it to. Reddit allows the sub's experts to reach an particular audience and share information and perspectives that they might not otherwise be exposed to.
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Comment on The latest study on trigger warnings finally convinced me they’re not worth it in ~health.mental
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentI use them occasionally in real life, but then I work in academia. I also don't phrase it as a trigger warning, and don't know anyone who does anymore. Before I give lectures where I've got slides...I use them occasionally in real life, but then I work in academia. I also don't phrase it as a trigger warning, and don't know anyone who does anymore. Before I give lectures where I've got slides showing pretty egregious stuff I give them a heads up "content warning" beforehand so they know what to expect. Part of that is because the vast majority of the subject matter I cover is completely innocuous, so showing examples of rape and death threats can come as a bit of a shock.
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Comment on Is it OK to like the work of bad people? in ~arts
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentI can't say I place myself firmly in one camp or the other. I have a nebulous set of criteria and kind of go on a case by case basis. I also pretty much always continue to enjoy things I enjoyed...I can't say I place myself firmly in one camp or the other. I have a nebulous set of criteria and kind of go on a case by case basis. I also pretty much always continue to enjoy things I enjoyed before learning an artist was a bad person, with the exception of learning new things (e.g., if I didn't initially recognize something as racist and now I do, I like it less). However, upon learning someone is Bad, few things I consider before supporting subsequent work are:
- When the infraction was made and was it in line with social and cultural norms of the time? (or "did they know that what they were doing was bad?")
- How bad was the bad thing? There's a difference between saying sexist things and causing actual harm to women.
- How often did the bad thing happen? Was it a one-off mistake (like George Takei's thing) or was it habitual (like Kevin Spacey's)?
- How did they react when it came out? Did they apologize? Did they double down? I thought Louis CK's response was great . . . until his recent bit.
All of the criteria don't have to be met for me to continue to support a person, but all are certainly things I think about. I also know that I'm much quicker to judge people who's art I cared little for prior to bad things coming out.
Edit: closed a bracket
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Comment on Looking for advice on mother's deteriorating mental health in ~health
KilgoreSalmon LinkI'm so sorry you and your family are going through this. It hurts and it's not fair. I wish I had advice for you, but I can assure you you aren't alone. I didn't have to live with it (as in, in...I'm so sorry you and your family are going through this. It hurts and it's not fair.
I wish I had advice for you, but I can assure you you aren't alone. I didn't have to live with it (as in, in the same house) but my parents did with my step-sister a number of years ago. I'm not sure what was fueling it, whether she was suffering from a mental health breakdown, addiction, or a combination of both (which is my working theory) but while it was happening she was a nightmare to live with. My parents were constantly walking on eggshells and could never predict what would make her snap. Like your mom and the microwave incident, my stepsister once flew into a seething rage when my stepmother brought the wrong kind of ice cream home. This was a grown ass adult woman.
Unfortunately it got worse before it got better. She had to reach rock bottom and my parents suffered an incredible amount of guilt as a result. There's a fine line between support and enabling. Eventually they had enough and told her that she could treat them with a modicum of respect or leave. She chose to leave. She was homeless for a while (living with friends, not on the street) and moved to California. Eventually she got into a live-in treatment program and got back on her feet. She's still living in California, but is working, has a dog, and she and my stepmum have repaired their relationship.
Okay, so maybe I do have some advice for you. It's not going to help your mom get better, but it might help you. Take advantage of the support system you have - your girlfriend, sister, and Dad. If you can, talk to them about it. Also consider therapy. The right person might even be able help you find tools to talk to your mom, tools to help you deal with what you're going through now, and tools to help you manage feelings of guilt should anything go wrong in the future.
I hope the test results are the beginning of the end and wishing you all the best in the meantime.
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Comment on Crowdsourced Twitter study reveals shocking scale of online abuse against women in ~tech
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentThe survey was from an older study conducted by Amnesty international. From what I can tell, this one used volunteers to help train an AI to analyze a larger dataset. My biggest issue with the...The survey was from an older study conducted by Amnesty international. From what I can tell, this one used volunteers to help train an AI to analyze a larger dataset.
My biggest issue with the study is the same as @bel - there's no control group to compare it to. We know that women (and men) experience online abuse. In my mind the more compelling questions are 1. Is the type and severity of abuse different? and 2. Are the effects different? (e.g., are women less likely to actively participate in an online community after experiencing abuse than men?). The most interesting finding in the study is the difference between abuse experienced between women of different races because the comparison allows you to see how severe the problem is for women of colour.
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Comment on Tildes, are you just waking up or falling asleep? in ~talk
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentI'm an early riser at the moment, but I've definitely been a sleeper-iner in the past. For me it's about the amount of hours I sleep. I need at least 8. So if whatever's going on in my life means...I'm an early riser at the moment, but I've definitely been a sleeper-iner in the past. For me it's about the amount of hours I sleep. I need at least 8. So if whatever's going on in my life means I don't get to bed until 11 or 12 or later, I'll need another 8 hours after that. I also used to have a really, really hard time waking up in the dark, but that doesn't seem to be affecting me right now, since it was pitch black when I woke up this morning at 6:30.
My Dad, on the other hand, has never been able to sleep past 6 (at least as long as he's been my dad, anyway). It doesn't matter what time he goes to bed, he just has this internal alarm clock that goes off. I'm not sure if it's something physiological or because he woke up at 6 for work every morning for 40-odd years before he retired and it's just what he's used to.
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Comment on What is tildes' take on NSFW content? in ~tildes
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentI misunderstood then, because I couldn't agree more. This sounds lovely. However, the reason why I remain skeptical is that that's the goal rather than the current state of things. If we don't...It's supposed to have an effect on the rest of your life--you learn something, whether it's facts or attitudes or new concepts
I misunderstood then, because I couldn't agree more.
I think increments of more tasteful platforms for pornography and erotica are really the only way to push porn and its consumers towards a more balanced, less sexist, and more ideal version.
This sounds lovely. However, the reason why I remain skeptical is that that's the goal rather than the current state of things. If we don't have it right now, how do we populate a group with that kind of material? And if we can, then hasn't the goal been met and there's no longer any point? (aside from misogyny-free titillation)
There's also a question of scale. This kind of thing is much easier to manage right now when Tildes is small, and closed to the wider public. What happens when it grows and the group gets overwhelmed with people posting regular porn and making regular porn comments? It's a massive amount of work to keep a community on track when there are thousands of people who think it should go the other way. Is it worth it? What it really comes down to (in my mind) is this: is allowing porn on Tildes necessary for the goals you state above to happen?
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Comment on The 2018 Audubon Photography Awards: Top 100 in ~hobbies
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentThank you for sharing! It sounds like that was a wonderful experience with your grandma. Not to mention what an amazing life-long gift she's given you! I know some of the local birds around where...Thank you for sharing! It sounds like that was a wonderful experience with your grandma. Not to mention what an amazing life-long gift she's given you! I know some of the local birds around where I live, but certainly not all and I don't know anything about them. It must be really nice to know more about the natural world your living in and sharing!
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Comment on What is tildes' take on NSFW content? in ~tildes
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentFirst things first – I really admire your optimism. Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic nor am I intending to belittle you. Positive outlooks like yours are what drives things forward and makes...First things first – I really admire your optimism. Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic nor am I intending to belittle you. Positive outlooks like yours are what drives things forward and makes things better. Although I do want to say that I care about ~Tildes and I'm here for quality discussion. The statement that "nobody cares" just isn't true.
If porn was treated on Tildes in the manner you describe, I agree it would likely be less of a problem. The thing is though "tasteful" is harder to define than porn and as the site opens up, there's zero guarantee that the people consuming it on Tildes will also be tasteful. Lots of women watch porn. I'm not arguing the facts. In an ideal world porn wouldn't alienate women. But the vast majority of porn produced today is alienating to women because by and large, porn is produced by men, for men. There's a reason why the most popular search term for porn by women is "lesbian" and it's not because the majority of women are a little gay.
When you say "would you rather keep it away and act like Victorians who pretend sex isn't even a thing?" you're arguing against a point I didn't make. Of course we can talk about sex on Tildes. I'd totally back a subgroup of ~health that focuses on sex. I'd also support a subgroup of ~creative if people wanted to share erotica or art. But porn is designed to titillate, not discuss. I am not optimistic that, should porn be posted here, that the result would be fascinating discussions about how the angle of the webcam is evocative of Hitchcock, heightening suspense so that we're on pins and needles wondering, "when is he going to cum on her face?!"
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Comment on Survival of the richest - The wealthy are plotting to leave us behind in ~life
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentThat sounds awful. It's crazy to me that this is still a model of operation when there's been a metric tonne of research showing that happy workers are motivated workers and surveillance makes...That sounds awful. It's crazy to me that this is still a model of operation when there's been a metric tonne of research showing that happy workers are motivated workers and surveillance makes people unhappy. The only time I worked a job like that was for a few months doing judging search engine results. All throughout the training they emphasized that if you were too slow or made too many mistakes you'd be fired. I was contracted to work something like 18 hours a week, but it ended up being way more than that because you'd have to sign out every time you needed to go to the bathroom or even to check a text, lest you be fired for being slow. I worked in restaurants for years and if given two options I'd work in a dish pit over doing that again. At least in the dish pit your employers acknowledge your humanity.
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Comment on Older shows to resurrect and binge in ~tv
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentMy favourite "old" shows are (in no particular order): Twin Peaks. I really like David Lynch's brand of weird and surreal. Although because it was made for tv it's not as weird as it could be, and...My favourite "old" shows are (in no particular order):
- Twin Peaks. I really like David Lynch's brand of weird and surreal. Although because it was made for tv it's not as weird as it could be, and probably not that weird by today's standards.
- DS9. (seconding the earlier recommendation). It's my favourite Trek series because it's a bit darker, the characters are flawed, and it's serialized towards the end.
- OG Law & Order, like with Jerry Orbach. Crime shows are my guilty pleasure and Law and Order is a classic.
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Comment on Older shows to resurrect and binge in ~tv
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentEven worse – there's only one season! (plus a movie, Serenity)Even worse – there's only one season! (plus a movie, Serenity)
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Comment on The 2018 Audubon Photography Awards: Top 100 in ~hobbies
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentThank you for sharing this! My Dad's been pretty seriously embracing photography as a hobby for the last 5 or 6 years and has recently gotten more into birding and bird photography so I was...Thank you for sharing this! My Dad's been pretty seriously embracing photography as a hobby for the last 5 or 6 years and has recently gotten more into birding and bird photography so I was excited to share this with him.
Even though my Dad's getting into it, I don't know anything about birding. I'd love to hear more about what your grandmother taught you!
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Comment on What is tildes' take on NSFW content? in ~tildes
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentOn sites like Tildes and reddit you can't avoid them. I might be able to avoid seeing the content, sure. But I can't avoid creeping social norms. This study found that when two subreddits were...On sites like Tildes and reddit you can't avoid them. I might be able to avoid seeing the content, sure. But I can't avoid creeping social norms. This study found that when two subreddits were banned, language associated with those subreddits decreased across all of reddit. Basically what this shows is that norms that were acceptable on fph and coontown creeped into the rest of reddit. There's a real risk that the same thing could happen on Tildes.
Another argument is that allowing porn risks alienating certain users, like women. Particularly if the creeping social norms thing happens.
What are your arguments for including that kind of content? What benefit would it bring to Tildes?
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Comment on Let's talk Buffy! Once More, With Spoilers. in ~tv
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentI'm with you– I would have supported Willow moving on, but Kennedy is terrible. She's too forceful, but not in the good empowerment way; in the bad, "I'm above boundaries" way.I'm with you– I would have supported Willow moving on, but Kennedy is terrible. She's too forceful, but not in the good empowerment way; in the bad, "I'm above boundaries" way.
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Comment on Let's talk Buffy! Once More, With Spoilers. in ~tv
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentYour second paragraph is exactly what I didn't like about season 6 at first and also why I grew to love it. I guess season 7 is a continuation of that theme. It's interesting thinking about how in...Your second paragraph is exactly what I didn't like about season 6 at first and also why I grew to love it. I guess season 7 is a continuation of that theme. It's interesting thinking about how in season 7 Buffy is most alone, but at the same time crowded out. I'll keep this in mind the next time I watch season 7.
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Comment on Let's talk Buffy! Once More, With Spoilers. in ~tv
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentThis is a really good way of putting it! I mentioned above and in the other thread that I didn't like season 6 at first, but it grew on me and is now one of my favorites. I hadn't thought of it...If that season had a theme it was battling the enemy within, and I thought that was pretty compelling.
This is a really good way of putting it! I mentioned above and in the other thread that I didn't like season 6 at first, but it grew on me and is now one of my favorites. I hadn't thought of it exactly as you described it, but the interpersonal struggles between the Scoobies became much more compelling once I accepted that the show could be enjoyable even when perfect inner circle wasn't united against an external Big Bad.
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Comment on Let's talk Buffy! Once More, With Spoilers. in ~tv
KilgoreSalmon Link ParentI actually didn't mind the resurrections, I think because they were at least inconsistent. I was able to take death seriously when it occurred because sometimes it was permanent, like Joyce,...I actually didn't mind the resurrections, I think because they were at least inconsistent. I was able to take death seriously when it occurred because sometimes it was permanent, like Joyce, Jenny, and Tara.
It's definitely harder to watch now, the more we know about Whedon the more painful some of his themes are, and it ends up looking like some denial therapy workshop for him dealing with mummy issues.
This is new to me– can you explain? I'd heard that his ex wife had written something along the lines that he wasn't really a feminist because he cheated on her (a whole bunch) but nothing really beyond that.
I like it in that context too, and I couldn't agree with you more. Deplatforming works. The assumption that the truth will come to rise to the top in a free marketplace of ideas misunderstands how people arrive at personal beliefs. You can throw all the empirical research you want at and anti-vaxxer and they won't change their mind, because it won't assuage their fears nor does it align with their values. I've observed similar interactions with free speech absolutists: you can show them all the research in the world that says that deplatforming can reduce extremism, but because it doesn't align with their values (and they often aren't the ones who experience negative effects) they won't accept it as a viable tool.
Deplatforming QAnon communities before they got out of hand is probably one of reddit's greatest successes. Other platforms, like Facebook and Instagram didn't, and its taken off there and becoming increasingly (and worryingly) mainstream.