Lyrl's recent activity
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Comment on Gemma needs help in ~comp
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Comment on EU hopes Hungarian election will bring end to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban's blockades in ~society
Lyrl LinkI hadn't realized enough democratic structures were left in Hungary that Orban losing an election would be viewed as a serious possibility. Thanks for posting, that is positive to learn.I hadn't realized enough democratic structures were left in Hungary that Orban losing an election would be viewed as a serious possibility. Thanks for posting, that is positive to learn.
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Comment on Reddit will implement human verification to tag and combat bots in ~tech
Lyrl Link ParentIt's difficult to imagine a price point that is low enough to be widely accessible for one account, but high enough to discourage multi-account sophisticated SEO strategies. The amount of money...It's difficult to imagine a price point that is low enough to be widely accessible for one account, but high enough to discourage multi-account sophisticated SEO strategies. The amount of money that can be raked in by successfully making your brand widely known (bonus if with a positive connotation) is just so large, the motivation is strong to find an exploit. To a point, the exploits being difficult just drives up the value, because then there is less competition once you are inside.
But I hope someone figures it out and successfully implements a community without hidden corporate shills.
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Comment on Gemma needs help in ~comp
Lyrl Link ParentKind of related to emotional language, claims of consciousness are also being explored by LLM researchers....Kind of related to emotional language, claims of consciousness are also being explored by LLM researchers. https://www.livescience.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/switching-off-ais-ability-to-lie-makes-it-more-likely-to-claim-its-conscious-eerie-study-finds
The OP article is considering actions as well:
Gemini’s viral exploits - dramatically admitting defeat, deleting codebases, uninstalling itself… - already show anecdotal signs of emotions driving behaviours.
Definitely not proof of emotions - this echos human behaviors in the training data - but it's not "just" emotional language.
The recentness of widespread acceptance that fish feel pain, or that human infants feel pain (anesthetic for circumcision was considered pointless), makes me wary of assuming LLMs cannot feel distress unless some unimaginable new type of evidence comes into existence. Especially if there is no cost to performance, programmers leaning towards training solutions that minimize distressed emotional language in internal processing seems reasonable given even a small chance there is experienced distress.
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Comment on Gemma needs help in ~comp
Lyrl Link ParentWhat would constitute evidence of emotions? What a model does and says is heavily suspect as evidence because the utility optimization profoundly affects them, but I am not sure any other evidence...What would constitute evidence of emotions? What a model does and says is heavily suspect as evidence because the utility optimization profoundly affects them, but I am not sure any other evidence lines could exist.
It seems reasonable to entertain bad evidence if there is no possibility of good evidence.
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Comment on Workers who love ‘synergizing paradigms’ might be bad at their jobs in ~humanities.languages
Lyrl LinkThere might be a symbiosis of people who get more into corporate BS and promote the workplace sense of purpose and team that go along with it, and people who care much less for social interactions...There might be a symbiosis of people who get more into corporate BS and promote the workplace sense of purpose and team that go along with it, and people who care much less for social interactions but are much better at the technical problem solving.
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Comment on Google’s AI overviews can scam you. Here’s how to stay safe. in ~tech
Lyrl Link ParentHumans are wired to support our community, particularly family and close friends. We all know parents have a strong (although not universal) tendency to hold irrationally positive views of their...Humans are wired to support our community, particularly family and close friends. We all know parents have a strong (although not universal) tendency to hold irrationally positive views of their children, and consider this a normal part of being human.
Scammers have found the social cues that trigger that "family illogic" circuit in many people. It can't be fought be logic, because it's not logical. It can be fought by cultivating the relationship between you and victim to meet whatever social need the victim is filling by their interactions with the scammer. Which is incredibly time consuming and emotionally draining, and often not practical, but just knowing the cause and a potential way out is a base on which to build.
At a higher level, better understanding of the social cues that make people susceptible to scams can inform policy that encourages community connections that trigger those cues, and fill the associated emotional needs, in a safe and positive way. We don't have great public policy examples yet, but supporting work to figure those out and implement them is a better reaction than victim-blaming people for, basically, being genetically human.
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Comment on Device that can extract 1,000 liters of clean water a day from desert air revealed by 2025 Nobel Prize winner in ~enviro
Lyrl Link ParentYes, yes it does. Local nighttime temperatures increase around windfarms, both increasing local average temperature and reducing day-night temperature swings. Generally considered to be worth the...There has to be some measureable decrease in the wind speed through the farm and does that have any downstream impacts on anything?
Yes, yes it does. Local nighttime temperatures increase around windfarms, both increasing local average temperature and reducing day-night temperature swings. Generally considered to be worth the tradeoff, but not by everyone, and details are still being researched.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S254243511830446X -
Comment on Breakthrough antibody discovery targets Epstein-Barr virus, which infects 95% of the world’s population in ~health
Lyrl Link ParentEBV is implicated in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) and neurological issues that are thought to be related like Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome, which are hugely...EBV is implicated in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) and neurological issues that are thought to be related like Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome, which are hugely debilitating and don't have any treatment other than support and coping strategies. (And symptoms largely overlap with Long Covid, which has similar issues.) Better understanding of what the virus does gives hope that understanding of how in some people it triggers neurological issues is close. And then maybe some effective treatment within my lifetime would be awesome.
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Comment on US Supreme Court strikes down Donald Trump's tariffs in ~society
Lyrl Link ParentMany of our deep drives are keyed towards staying in good graces with our in-group, because our far ancestors survived and reproduced more successfully by being in good group standing, even if the...This has reset my baseline understanding of what it means (in actuality) to be human. This isn’t saying that huge amounts of people are subhuman, it’s an admission that this is what humanity actually is, and a reminder that we’re not as sophisticated as we long pretended to be.
Many of our deep drives are keyed towards staying in good graces with our in-group, because our far ancestors survived and reproduced more successfully by being in good group standing, even if the group had objectively wrong positions, than by pursuing objective truth as individuals. Evolution selected against being able to apply our intelligence to things related to in-group identity.
I see so much talk of people holding illogical positions as being stupid, or due to a lack of education, and to me neither of those things seem to align with the divisions in our country. I believe if we don't address the real challenge of these in-group brain circuits that bypass our intelligence (or harness that intelligence for post-rationalization) and are immune to standard education, we aren't going to make any headway.
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Comment on Voyager Technologies CEO says space data center cooling problem still needs to be solved in ~space
Lyrl Link ParentThe hard working engineers at SpaceX are far from idiots. The owner of the company they work for has always been a charismatic rich idiot, that actually smart people sucked up to so he would...The hard working engineers at SpaceX are far from idiots. The owner of the company they work for has always been a charismatic rich idiot, that actually smart people sucked up to so he would provide capital for their business ideas, and use his charisma to get more capital from other rich people. Now, he has surrounded himself with yes men for so long that he deeply believes the sycophancy.
Being a charismatic figurehead providing capital to actually smart people worked for a long time, but as Elon has gotten in deeper thinking he is the smart one, his businesses have deteriorated. Twitter and Tesla are stagnant, and SpaceX is now saddled with covering the losses at Twitter and the Elon part of the AI bubble spending. It is not hubristic to watch the pattern of behavior and conclude Elon, and other billionaires who believe they are smart only because they surround themselves with sycophants to tell them that, are idiots.
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Comment on Hair loss open discussion in ~talk
Lyrl Link ParentSide comment on shedding: 50-100 scalp hairs a day is normal. Hair follicles grow a hair for a while, then pause and take a break (hair might shed here), then start over with a new hair (old hair...Side comment on shedding: 50-100 scalp hairs a day is normal. Hair follicles grow a hair for a while, then pause and take a break (hair might shed here), then start over with a new hair (old hair gets pushed out here if it didn't come out during the rest period).
Eyebrow hairs have a growth cycle of about six weeks and a rest period of around three to four months. So over a year, every single one of our eyebrow hairs sheds at least twice.
Scalp hairs typically grow for two to six years before resting. Shed scalp hairs are a normal part of the hair follicle behavior, with most people losing between 50 and 100 each day, and not by themselves indicative of any problems.
The age thinning is sad and real (I have long hair, and most of my braid length is pencil thin now), but is a result of hair follicles not growing new hairs after their rest cycle, not related to the normal cyclical shedding itself.
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Comment on Any software engineers considering a career switch due to AI? in ~comp
Lyrl Link ParentFor publicly traded companies, how stock owners perceive the current performance trend directly affects stock price. High level managers are significantly compensated with stock, and have an...For publicly traded companies, how stock owners perceive the current performance trend directly affects stock price. High level managers are significantly compensated with stock, and have an interest in keeping stock price high.
"We overhired in the weird pandemic economy (projected growth that didn't happen) and now need to right size" calls into question manager judgements (like projecting growth that failed to materialize)
"Tarriffs ate our capital project budget, and regulatory uncertainty makes now seem like a bad time to commit on a long-term direction anyway, so we're laying off the capital project team" calls into question the future growth of the company
"AI magic will let us grow with fewer people" covers up other explanations and feeds the stock price as a spin. AI spending can be any level the company believes is valid for other reasons - part of the appeal of this shtick is that it works with even minimal AI purchases. It's a stock-price-support trick for any publicly traded company in the current investor environment.
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Comment on Cory Doctorow | AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage. in ~tech
Lyrl Link ParentI have found them helpful for idea generation. Coming up with a group name, list ingredients I want to use and suggesting potential recipes, that kind of thing. They will generally list a good...I have found them helpful for idea generation. Coming up with a group name, list ingredients I want to use and suggesting potential recipes, that kind of thing. They will generally list a good number of options, and of you want them to go a different direction or just keep generating along the same lines you can just ask. Then pick the one(s) that you like the best, or get inspired by one to think of something you might have taken much longer to think of, or not thought of at all.
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Comment on Scott Adams dead: Dilbert creator was 68 in ~comics
Lyrl Link ParentYeah, they can see who completed it, but not the contents. That's outsourced to a third party to keep personal details away from managers. For data, only department-type groupings are visible....Yeah, they can see who completed it, but not the contents. That's outsourced to a third party to keep personal details away from managers. For data, only department-type groupings are visible. Multiple types of possible groupings, some as small as three people. But, you know, it would take a curious manager at least a couple of hours playing with different grouping slicers to figure out who was who.
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Comment on Judge to Texas: You can’t age-gate the entire internet without evidence in ~tech
Lyrl Link ParentI'm reading the article as the law requiring age verification for everyone the app store can tell is located in Texas. Apparently apps pre-installed on the phone are excluded, including web browsers.I'm reading the article as the law requiring age verification for everyone the app store can tell is located in Texas. Apparently apps pre-installed on the phone are excluded, including web browsers.
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Comment on I need to tell you why coffee makes you poop in ~food
Lyrl Link ParentI am far from regular. Multiple days without a bowel movement are common, as are days with three or more small ones. I am vegetarian and think I get decent fiber in meals, but I used to have...I am far from regular. Multiple days without a bowel movement are common, as are days with three or more small ones. I am vegetarian and think I get decent fiber in meals, but I used to have painful crampy loose stools kind of regularly (once a month-ish) until I started aggressively adding extra fiber to my diet: every weekday, a cup of oatmeal and a packet of Metamucil fiber cookies (cinnamon - the apple replaces some of the psyllium with oat, and the chocolate straight up has less fiber).
Coffee definitely helps reduce the irregularly, making a single morning bowel movement more likely. It's not a trigger by itself - only seems to work early morning, having a short walk helps, still need all the extra fiber - but it's a noticeable support.
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Comment on Donald Trump administration policies slashing staffing and funding for public lands are waking a sleeping political giant in Montana. Will either party notice? in ~society
Lyrl Link ParentIf the breachers are a small part of the population, say one in twenty, modeling and pressuring for acknowledgement of wrongdoing can work. In the case of the US public, half the voting population...If the breachers are a small part of the population, say one in twenty, modeling and pressuring for acknowledgement of wrongdoing can work.
In the case of the US public, half the voting population committed the breach. There just is not the leverage to get that proportion of the population to acknowledge wrongdoing. We have to find a different way forward.
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Comment on US President Donald Trump was going to roll out a health care plan. Then Republicans weighed in. in ~society
Lyrl Link ParentHe has very thoroughly surrounded himself with idealogues and drifters. He is swayed by the last person for a while, but people who actually care about effective governance get under his skin...He has very thoroughly surrounded himself with idealogues and drifters. He is swayed by the last person for a while, but people who actually care about effective governance get under his skin after a few rounds and he discards them.
I guess the trick would be to have a very large number of progressives to stage. So each one could go just one or two rounds and get the sway without running into his same-person-interaction limit.
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Comment on US President Donald Trump signs order to remove tariffs from Brazilian beef, coffee other food items in ~society
Lyrl Link ParentAgree, but that's not how I have seen the term greedflation used. I have most commonly seen it used to describe any price increase that increases profit margin, ignoring every other aspect of...The “greed” part comes in if the supply is being artificially limited by a cartel, for example, or if the price is being kept high by monopolistic practices.
Agree, but that's not how I have seen the term greedflation used. I have most commonly seen it used to describe any price increase that increases profit margin, ignoring every other aspect of market and regulatory forces. The common perception seems to be that if companies had smaller profit margins then poof all the other aspects of market failure would be solved.
I’d prefer to see “what the market will bear” used as a genuine mechanism to balance supply and demand where necessary, with careful guardrails... rather than used to mean “companies are better off buying up competitors, undermining scientists, corrupting democracy, and spreading misinformation to customers, because all of those have a better ROI than improving the product”.
Amen.
My employer used to be an innovation leader in our industry, and has a lot of residual support structures for new product development, but the staffing is a small fraction of what it used to be. It's sad to work with those almost-ghost departments that could be developing brand new cool stuff to introduce to the world, and instead we're mostly trying to squeeze every drop of revenue from commodity production. It's enabled owners to extract more profit in the short term, but robbed us of future competitiveness.
I hope our leaders don't get hung up on "solving" short term windfall profit situations so hard they neglect the long-term problem of corporate owners not caring about long-term company health, much less long-term company impact on society at large.
Thanks for the elaboration, I agree with everything you wrote and it was helpful and interesting to have the additional context. I think over-anthropomorphizing is an issue even if AI experience emotion, because their drivers (whether purely programmatic or influenced by some emotion or emotion-like experience) are alien to ours.
LLMs are designed and trained to "want" to please humans, but in a very superficial way - very much in the vein you pointed out about minimizing distress in humans not being the same as minimizing distressed language from humans, but they are only trained to minimize distressed language. They don't "want" to be friends in any sense of the word besides sycophancy, which seems to be severely damaging to a small percentage of humans (the AI psychosis cases), and likely to be more mildly-to-moderately harmful for a much larger percentage.