What shampoo/conditioner do you use?
possibly irrelevant backstory
I grew up with very little guidance about hair products, using Pert Plus or similar 2-in-1 mostly by default. In high school, I didn't know what to do with it so I started cutting it really short.
Then one time after college, I found a regular barber who was really good. She sold me a bottle of shampoo and conditioner and told me to wash with the shampoo then leave the conditioner on for a while before rinsing it out. It seemed like it made a difference in how soft and shiny my hair was, so I stuck with that regimen for years, even after I moved across the country. Eventually that product line was discontinued, and I ended up substituting a Redken product that was then discontinued.
Most recently, I was using Redken All Soft. But now they are up to ~$52 / liter (for each of the shampoo and conditioner), so I am looking for something less expensive. I tried a Tresemme brand that they had at the warehouse store which was super cheap ($4/liter for each). It's been okay, but I feel like there might be something in the middle that is better.
For reference, I am male and my hair is coarse and wavy and these days about 3 inches long. I would also take recommendations for my wife and daughter, who both have fine wavy hair. I live in western Pennsylvania in the US, so I would need something that can be shipped here if it's not something generally available.
I have fine wavy-to-loosely-curly hair and I don't use a shampoo but a "co-wash" (cleansing rinse-out conditioner) and then a leave-in conditioner. You all sound like you could benefit from the curly hair method. You have to kind of experiment with what parts of the advice work for you, because some of it didn't work for my hair (the method really seemed to focus more on hair that was very curly rather than wavy).
Some key points I personally have taken away from learning the method:
I'm not sure how much of this applies to someone with shorter hair, but I hope you find some of it useful, and so do your wife and daughter. There are a LOT more products available these days since the curly method caught on about 10... 15?... years ago, so that's fortunate! I use a brand called As I Am which is readily available at Target. (I think it may be meant for non-white hair, but I'm white and it works for me.) I've also had success with a brand called Alaffia Beautiful Curls, but it can be harder to find. Miss Jessie's makes good styling products as well. I used to have success with lightweight mousses too, depending on what kind of look I wanted for my hair, but those kept disappearing after I found ones that I liked, so I haven't bothered to look lately for whatever might be available.
Thank you so much for this, great information!
I'm seconding As I Am. Their cowash and leave in conditioner are great! And smell nice
I should have mentioned, when you change up your routine, do it little by little! Don't change everything at once, but pick one thing to focus on and pay attention to whether it makes a difference for you. That way you get the best info for what you eventually settle on, plus it's not a huge investment (of time, of things to remember, or of product purchases) up front.
This is bad information for folks with things hair. Don't use a comb for detangling, use a wet brush instead (the brand is called "Wet") as the bristles are soft and won't pull through tangles which would break hear.
A big thing for me was switching to shampoo conditioner meant for thin hair and using a leave in conditioner. Also hair oil for the end helped dramatically. Previous to that I was buying product at the grocery store as I thought it was all the same, well I was wrong. Everything carried at the grocery store for shampoo and conditioner is just a waste of time to use as it's watered down.
Disclaimer: mentioning this in case it helps others, but none of these are inexpensive, so might not help you specifically, OP
I rotate through these, because I have flakes bad:
Dermarest Psoriasis Medicated Shampoo
Nizoral Anti-Dandruff Shampoo
And sometimes:
Neutrogena Hydro Boost (hyaluronic acid) shampoo
Nothing controls flakes for me perfectly, but lately, Dermarest has helped tame some redness/flaking on my face, and to my surprise, also reduced it a LOT on my scalp- so what I thought was dandruff might have been closer to specifically eczema/psoriasis
Dandruff is a fungal infection, and anti-dandruff shampoos have an anti-fungal that, not surprisingly as it is designed to kill a living organism, many people find irritating.
Flaking scalp often results from dryness and irritation, without any fungal involvement at all, in which case dandruff shampoos won't help.
Well, Dermarest seems to have helped the most in reducing flaking this time around, and Nizoral (which is anti-fungal specifically, as it contains Ketoconazole) has worked for me in the past (off and on) and does not cause me irritation. I decided to throw everything at it this time around because I was frustrated enough. Given Nizoral being hit-or-miss throughout my life, I'm not surprised that the majority of my issue isn't fungal.
I do ultimately think my problem is more a dryness/irritation thing, which Dermarest helps more with, so it makes sense, and it's the one shampoo I didn't know about until recently, it also helped with irritation/redness on my face just as a byproduct of using it as a shampoo, so I'm also not surprised that an issue I have on my face also exists on my scalp
That sounds rough! I'm glad you've found things that are helping you.
Thank you, me too... took a long time of trial-and-error, and plenty of things that worked once or twice then never again. Wild stuff.
I will say, one recent other Shampoo and Conditioner I've used that makes my hair feel amazing (aside from the Hydro Boost) is Huron.
Though on second look, at $16 for ~12oz, Huron is close to Redkin price when you look at the cost per oz, I think, sadly. It did wonders on my hair's softness though. Neutrogena Hydro Boost shampoo and conditioner each run about $12 for that size.
Nizoral. My damn scalp gets so itchy!
Mine too, it drives me bonkers. Thankfully these things help, but especially in winter, it's awful
Regarding your barber's advice about leaving the conditioner in, here's what I have found effective:
After your shower, while your hair is still "towel dried" aka still wet but not dripping, take a small amount of conditioner (my best estimate is 1/8 tsp for a guy with short hair) and smear it onto a comb. Comb that through the left side of your hair then do another 1/8 tsp for the right side of the hair. That small amount should disappear into your hair after you comb it through a few times. If you feel like it's not getting aborbed, you've put in too much. After a few times you'll get the hang of how much you need.
Then just leave it in. Think of it as a hair gel. After a few days of this process I've found my hair is much happier.
BTW - I've used all of the expensive shampoos and conditioners and I keep coming back to "Tresemme Moisture Rich Shampoo with Vitamin E" and "Tresemme Moisture Rich with Vitamin E Conditioner". They work great and I've tried a lot of product.
I've also found that instead of letting your hair towel/air dry fully, using the low setting on a blow dryer with a diffuser has been really good for my hair and scalp. May be something to look into!
I have very fine, thin hair that's shoulder length at the moment. I wash it every day because my head sweats buckets when I exercise (tried for years to figure out a non-daily solution but my scalp/neck just can't take dirty hair resting against it). I used Verb Ghost products for a while and really liked them, but they're a bit too expensive for me currently. I switched to Aveeno apple cider vinegar shampoo and their oat milk conditioner, and once every week or so I use the grapefruit clarifying shampoo from Neutrogena.
I actually condition first, then shampoo. A hairdresser recommended that to me years ago and it works great for my hair. After showering I gently squeeze my hair with a towel then add a tiny drop of Hair Food leave-in condition and let it air dry ~10 min before finishing with a blow dryer
Just wanted to commiserate, also have incredibly fine hair. I've tried lo/no washing methods, and it really, really doesn't suit me if I want my hair to look decent. It just gets weighed down too easily and looks dirty very quickly.
Yeppp, right there with you. I genuinely spent a whole year only washing my hair every 3ish days as an experiment, and all it got me was a year of terrible hair. Tried all the tricks. Some of us are just meant to wash more often I guess
I, male, wash only the part on my neck, with trader joe’s lemon verbena french milled soap. I’m told my hair has great lift, and it feels soft to me, but most she/her people would probably not to prefer it for themselves.
Incidentally, many years ago I took Dr. bronner’s advice, and no longer use deoderant, peppermint dr. B works great.
I've not used shampoo in over 10 years. I get compliments on my hair a lot. If it gets truly dirty (as in, mud or worse caked into it) I'll sometimes use soap on it. But that's like once or twice a year tops. I just give a nice thorough "scalp scrape massage" with my fingernails every time I shower.
I also swear by my Wyld wax soap. Works great, love the aluminum container, and refills are both cheap and compostable.
I have also not washed my hair with shampoo/conditioner for about 10 years. I also just give my hair a scrub, rinsing under the shower, every few days.
My hair is straight and thickish. Most of the of the last decade my hair has been short but it is now just past my shoulders and feels clean and soft :)
Edit: I should also add that I’m male (in case that affects how hair grows?). And when I used to use shampoo, I thought my hair was greasy, so needed washing. But since I stopped, my hair does not really get greasy at all - whatever caused my scalp to produce oils adapted when I stopped stopping it away. So, I can highly recommend joining the no ‘poo movement, but it might require some transition time.
I still use deodorant, but really just as a kind of perfume/cologne that isn't oppressive.
I gave up antiperspirant many years ago though, because something doesn't seem right about jamming your sweat glands full of stuff to stop your body from doing a natural and necessary thing. Sounds like the kind of thing a body might overcompensate for, or that might cause knock-on effects down the road.
Something I’ve been trying for the last year or so, which seems to work well: crystal deodorant. It is actually a type of salt. It doesn’t stop sweating (like antiperspirant) but the salt kills off the bacteria that grows in the sweat, so it stops the smell of body odor.
I don't seem to have the problem of body odor developing so fast that a quick daily shower doesn't handle it. Just a quick wash using the George Carlin Method ("armpits, asshole, crotch and teeth," to which I personally add face and shoulders) seems to do the trick. Like I said, I mostly only use for deodorant as a mild fragrance, which I'm guessing salt deodorant doesn't really provide.
I fear this might not be helpful advice unfortunately, but in the spirit of answering the question: I wash my head with Irish Spring and every once in a while, some no-name dandruff control knockoff. Buzz my head down to the skin every three weeks or so. Hair very happy :)
I have very thin hair and am in the process of going bald, and the thing that actually ended up working for me, discovered by accident, is to avoid washing it too frequently. When I do wash my hair, it becomes pretty frizzy and the individual hairs don't have that "stickiness" that prevents it from going everywhere, and that's true even if I use the fanciest shampoos and conditioners. When I wear a hat or the wind picks up, it just puffs up and practically turns invisible. It also means a lot of the hairs will fall out at once, being released by the mop when the oil is stripped out. I'll still wash my hair periodically, but generally speaking it's not going to be more than once a week.
I know a lot of people will think that this is gross, but I've actually found several benefits. For one thing, when I was shampooing my hair frequently, my hair was always extremely greasy, but now it's just plain normal; I no longer get the feeling that I need to wash my hands after running my fingers through my hair at the end of the day. I've already mentioned how it improved the appearance of balding, but I swear that my hairline has slowed it's recession as well - though to be fair, there are other things that could have caused that.
Tresemmes Botanique Nourish & Replenish Conditioner, or apparently "Tresemmes Botanique Coconut Nourish", which makes me wonder if I ordered the slightly wrong one when trying to stock up.
No idea if its good or whatever, works for me, it was on the list of Curly Girl approved products, so it doesn't have sulfates or things that strip out oils. I think that's the real key, I stopped shampooing (still do every once in a while, but that's a timeframe of months in between) and just use conditioner every day instead. I have pretty curly hair and it works for me. Also lightly drying with a t-shirt (usually the one I was wearing before taking a shower) and letting it airdry the rest.
I finish with some hair gel ("not your mother's, curl talk") to stop it from frizzing after. Works for me.
I use a custom blend shampoo from Function of Beauty at my dermatologist's recommendation. I'm considering changing up my shampoo after this bottle is done, because I'm working on getting my curly hair back, and the original purpose of the FoB shampoo was to help de-frizz my hair while clarifying it, but also being gentle enough to help encourage my curls. I recently found Sauce Beauty products at Sally's and the Curl conditioner mask has been everything for my curls. It's the only thing I've changed, and I have actual curls again, instead of waves that get greasy.
My hair is still greasy after two days, but I'm working on that with other doctors.
Female. Bosley Shampoo and Conditioner. Expensive but I have thinning hair and it seems to have helped a little with that and I like how it cleans. And I have two issues with using that hair stuff you put in your hair (forget the name right now. Edit: remembered. Minoxidil (sp?)). 1. It makes my hair greasy which I could deal with if it was temporary but from what I understand if you want it to keep working you have to use it forever. 2. I learned it is super toxic to my cats and I just don't want to risk it, I'd rather go bald even though as a woman that really makes you a freak. I guess I could just wear hats or a wig (though I hear those are warm and my head sweats a lot).
I'm a bit off grid but I use Bronner's castille soap for basically everything - dishes, body wash, hair, dog wash, etc. Never feel bad dumping it anywhere I happen to be.
For the hair specifically, I use a small amount of Bronner's and it lathers up fine, but one wash is not enough to remove all the oils from my scalp... which is usually what I want. Very, very occasionally I will mix with a bit of baking soda only if I've been without a shower for more than three days. It happens sometimes when you're camping and cuts through all the oil buildup nicely - but is not a daily driver, it will dry and even damage your hair with too frequent use.
I used to have trouble with my hair being a cloud of frizz around my head like a nimbus. I have fine, thin, wavy hair that I keep short with a long fringe. I stopped using traditional shampoo about 8 years ago and have been using rye flour. You take it in a small bowl or container with you in the shower, wet it into a yogurt-like consistency, and then smear it onto your scalp and into your hair. You would probably be amazed how well it works to clean hair, it's weird to use and hard to rinse out, but my hair finally looks how I've always wanted it to. On top of that it's inexpensive for an all natural, sulfate free, ph balanced shampoo. It works by gently absorbing excess scalp oils but it doesn't strip any from your hair.
I don't know if someone with a lot of volume, length, or curls would like the experience, seeing as I find rye flour grains in my hair even when I rinse thoroughly. It gets on my towels and on my shirts after a shower. However, I only use it when my hair gets greasy, and since it doesn't interfere with your body chemistry that can take anywhere between 3 days to a week depending on the weather and my activity level. If anyone has trouble with frizz or their hair drying out it's definitely worth a try.
If it isn't what you're using, I read that light rye flour rinses out better.
That would be nice to try, I've been using what's available at the grocery store. Thanks for the suggestion.
You mentioned it's finally how you want it to look -- how does it look now? Asking for a friend who has a cloud of fine, thin S curls
Does it work if one takes a "chinchilla dust bath" approach, I wonder, since rinsing seems like an ordeal
I've tried the dusting thing, using it like a dry shampoo, and it does not work without rinsing unfortunately. It just kind of sits in the hair and is even harder to get the grains out. You asked how my hair looks, well not to brag but it looks great. Lustrous and shiny, not greasy but it has a healthy "weight" to it and moves like the hair in conditioner commercials. The woman who cuts my hair complimented me on how soft and tangle-free it is. I credit the health of my hair to the rye flour "shampoo" and it's definitely worth it, to me at least, to deal with its quirks and inconveniences for the results.
That's fantastic.....if one thinks of it as an occasional hair treatment it sounds worth it
Baby-fine, wavy hair, color-treated, combined with hormonal thinning, autoimmune patchy alopecia, medication that causes hair loss, and skin allergy to some ingredients... Like /u/Tigress, I seriously considered shaving my head and wearing a wig.
I used to use shampoo only, no conditioner, because the weight of conditioner would make my hair flat and greasy-looking. Even the "fine hair" and "volume" formulations didn't help. These days, I'm using "Wake Up Call Volumizing Shampoo" from Better Not Younger. I don't like the odor, and it's so aggressively soapy that my hair strands feel rough if I don't follow it with conditioner. But it's sulfate-free, works in hard water, doesn't trigger my skin allergies, lasts about 6 months per bottle, and I only need to use it every other day or so. However, I found out the hard way that I was allergic to the same brand's conditioner.
I'm embarrassed about my current conditioner. After getting my hair colored last year, the hairdresser used a conditioner that left my hair spectacularly soft, weightless, and shiny. I'd never gotten those results, especially after blow-drying. I asked what product she used and bought a bottle even though it was shamefully expensive - Shu Uemura "Silk Bloom".
I'm still using the same bottle, not even half empty. In economic terms, I would have had to buy 3 or 4 bottles of drugstore conditioner in the same time period, so the costs worked out. [I don't know if more expensive brands are generally more concentrated, but that's been my experience.] Zero frizz, even on humid, rainy days that used to make me look like a dandelion. The conditioning and color preservation resist swimming pool chlorine effects as well.
As for the hair loss issues, Target Up And Up-brand 5% minoxidil foam for women works fine, and I prefer it to the greasy Hers version. The Target formulation doesn't weigh down my hair, and I suspect it has volumizing additives. It took about three months for the alopecia spots to fill in, 6 months before I had a normal-looking full head of hair. I wash up thoroughly after applying it, and the cat that tries to groom my head was repelled by the smell. So I'm not too concerned about accidentally poisoning them.
I detangle my hair while it's wet, using a paddle brush like this. It's very gentle and doesn't pull or break my hair. Using the smooth towel/scrunch drying that /u/Sapholia mentioned and switching from a regular brush did help reduce hair loss.
Note for /u/first-must-burn - I found that Costco Kirkland-brand products are as good as Redken, they just weren't perfect for my specific issues. You might have a better experience.
Second note: Am I alone in my frustration about how much voodoo science is involved in cosmetic product claims? I'd swear there are entire brands that exist because people buy their overpromoted, overpriced products once and move on when the magic isn't real. Consumer Reports and other sources can't keep up with ingredients that are safe/effective. Nothing works for everyone, and online product reviews are hopelessly contaminated. It's all just a crapshoot whether you can find products that do what they claim for a reasonable price.
You're definitely not alone! Personally I've become a bit frustrated at the "sulfate" issue. The original idea was that a "harsh detergent" (this was the phrase constantly bandied about for a while) such as sodium laureth/lauryl sulfate strips your hair too much of its oils, so gradually brands started focusing on adjusting their ingredients so they could proclaim they were "sulfate-free!" However, if the shampoo still lathers, or still strips your hair completely clean, it's accomplishing the same thing as sulfates, as far as I can tell. They've still got surfactants in there, just ones that are a different formulation. But people are focusing so much on the "sulfate" buzzword that this piece of advice has gotten very diluted.
However, this is just my own personal suspicion based on what I remember from reading Curly Girl (hate that name for the method; do boys not also have curly hair?) so many years ago, as well as personal observation. I didn't bring it up in my own comment for that reason (also it was getting far too long and I wanted to condense the talking points as much as possible).
This is just unfortunately a fact of life. Hair and skin care is just so insanely individual. What works for one person with 2B hair might not work for someone else with the same! This is why I was so cautious to mention that not only did I have to pick and choose which advice to follow from the curly method, but that the same thing that works for me might not work for others.
I started typing up a tangential rant here about how this also applies to medical conditions and neurodivergence and disabilities but you know what, that's too far off topic and people don't need my thoughts about that on a nice Sunday like this.
Agreed that the language around avoiding sulfates in skin and hair care is unclear and misleading at best. I avoid them due to sensitive skin and because they do seem to strip dye color faster. But as I mentioned, I'm using a high-lather product that's probably not much less likely to strip skin oils.
Human hair diversity is just so broad! As you said, "2B" hair isn't much of a description - oiliness, aging, hair density, genetics for number of cysteine linkages, and other factors figure into what the end result of any chemical intervention might be. But it would be nice if there was some transparency and intelligible research about what effects different chemical formulas might have.
I once had the dubious pleasure of being the demo student for a scanning electron microscopy lab lecture. My hair sample broke the demo leader's claim that human hair is "100 um diameter with microscopically visible scale structure" by having hair diameter at the very lowest end of the range, around 10 um, with almost no scales in the outer coat. If nothing else, I've always had a very good idea of my hair type, but that hasn't eased the process of finding products that work. Because my hair doesn't have much fine-scale roughness, dye color doesn't penetrate or adhere as well as usual. Conditioners usually sit on the outside of my hair shafts rather than soaking in, contributing to greasiness. There's probably room for a direct-to-consumer service to analyze hair and prescribe products as appropriate, but I'd expect that this would be susceptible to the usual perverse incentives.
Have you ever considered using henna to color your hair? It's very limited in the shades it produces but it's truly permanent hair color. The hennotanic acid reacts with and binds directly to the keratin that makes up your hair, so it doesn't ever fade or bleed color. When my grays got too much for me I gave it a shot and I'm so glad I did. 100% natural henna will tint whatever your natural hair color is with a warm orangey red. In my case my hair becomes a medium dark saturated auburn. It's a beautiful color that I love and don't have to think about until my roots and grays start peeking. There are also formulations of henna with indigo that give you darker browns and blacks but I can't speak to those personally. It's much gentler on your hair than chemical hair dyes so it might be a good option for you. Let me know if you want more info, I'm happy to share.
I used henna often when I was younger, but even 100% henna (Light Mountain brand) is now yet another material that gives me an allergic skin reaction. Also note there are allegedly natural henna formulations, especially "black" henna, that contain para-phenylenediamine (PPD). PPD is an extreme skin sensitizer (yep, I'm severely allergic to it) and carcinogen. There's no testing done on henna materials imported to the U.S., so there are risks of contamination and fakes.
One of the things no one tells you about aging is that you collect allergies and intolerances over the years... I'm a dumbass former smoker who also worked in a lab analyzing literally toxic waste to pay for college, so I've got an exotic, extensive collection of chemical contact allergies. BandAid adhesive, nail polish, superglue, common drugs, nickel, latex and related foods, many perfumes and hair/skin products, the ink in my tattoos, etc.
I go to a hair stylist who lets me patch test everything she intends to put on my head, and it's worth it to avoid being an itchy, blistered, swollen-eyed mess. I think this goes back to "nothing works for everyone".
I originally discovered this brand at my local Walgreens and it was the first shampoo / conditioner that I absolutely fell in love with. Then they stopped selling it, and after trying countless disappointing alternatives I now have to order my shampoo from
SatanAmazon.Shampoothie is the brand. I have very thin blonde hair that also happens to be receding, so volume is key for me. This stuff worked so well for me I would sometimes catch a reflection and go "wow, my hair looks great today!" which says a lot because I've been self conscious about it my entire life. Also, the bottle isn't kidding - it really does smell good enough to drink.
The Biotin one is my go-to but sometimes I go Tea Tree for that fun scalp tingle.
edit - The leaving the conditioner in advice was a game changer for me too! I just brush my teeth in the shower while my hair soaks.
Also male, but have long fine hair. I've been using Redkin gloss treatment for shampoo and conditioner but I have also had good luck with Biolage in the past. My barber/stylist uses Paul Mitchell when I visit and I see similarly good results.
Also, make sure you shop the Ulta sales and you can typically nab 10% off or so.
Attitude shampoo and conditioner works really well for me.
Also, Vanicream shampoo is pretty solid no frill shampoo for sensitive skin.
i just use Ion from Sally’s Beauty. it’s their own brand, but the shampoo and conditioner are great.
for you, if you want to work with the wavy hair, you should look into the curly girl method.
Sallys is great, though. i also use their hair dye to make my hair about two shades darker. You buy the dye and developer separately, so you don’t have to use it all at once.
Method (Men) 2-in-1. I use it because it does not contain microplastics. I get plenty of compliments on my hair. Like not a ton because I'm a dude, but sometimes it's almost creepy how insistent people get about how perfect my thick hair is. But I don't do anything special other than just kinda push it aside so I guess it's wasted on me? Sorry.
I don't! I'm lazy and just squirt whatever flavour of Original Source body wash I currently have. Coconut right now, but it could be tea tree or anything really.
Marks & Spencer wood spice is a favourite as well.