Trev's recent activity

  1. Comment on How are you using Intermittent Reward? (and why you should think about trying it) in ~talk

    Trev
    Link Parent
    So is the difficulty for you primarily coming from stopping yourself from cheating your system by giving yourself unearned rewards? I'm curious what kinds of rewards you've tried and the kind of...

    So is the difficulty for you primarily coming from stopping yourself from cheating your system by giving yourself unearned rewards? I'm curious what kinds of rewards you've tried and the kind of tasks that you wanted to boost your motivation to do

    1 vote
  2. Comment on How are you using Intermittent Reward? (and why you should think about trying it) in ~talk

    Trev
    Link Parent
    That's true, but to add a little bit, the "muscle" is trained by purposely resisting something, but also by engaging with something that is challenging or difficult. Both of those are at play when...

    That's true, but to add a little bit, the "muscle" is trained by purposely resisting something, but also by engaging with something that is challenging or difficult. Both of those are at play when you use intermittent reward system as a motivation tool. Anecdotally, the engaging in the difficult tasks is harder for me than withholding the reward, but your guess is as good as mine as to extent each of those contribute to improved willpower because science hasn't provided a conclusive answer to that yet.

    1 vote
  3. Comment on How are you using Intermittent Reward? (and why you should think about trying it) in ~talk

    Trev
    Link Parent
    Finding stuff that works as a reward for you is key. One thing that has helped for me is to move some types of rewards from the "I want it so I do it" category to "This is something I need to...

    Finding stuff that works as a reward for you is key. One thing that has helped for me is to move some types of rewards from the "I want it so I do it" category to "This is something I need to earn". This both increases the value of the reward because it is no longer freely available as well as mentally connecting the desire for the reward to the activity you will do to earn a chance at it.

    So in your case, maybe when you come across something interesting, you add it to a list to explore later and use that exploration session as your reward

    2 votes
  4. Comment on How are you using Intermittent Reward? (and why you should think about trying it) in ~talk

    Trev
    Link Parent
    Sure, I've broadly seen success with this, but the areas that were most impactful for me so far have been House work, especially that "one thing that never gets done because it's annoying" Gym. I...

    Sure, I've broadly seen success with this, but the areas that were most impactful for me so far have been

    • House work, especially that "one thing that never gets done because it's annoying"
    • Gym. I actually make this one extra contingent on me completing the workout by a particular time because I naturally tend to dawdle otherwise
    • Work. At a certain point in the afternoon, sometimes I need the motivation boost to stop procrastinating

    What have you tried so far?

    2 votes
  5. Comment on How are you using Intermittent Reward? (and why you should think about trying it) in ~talk

    Trev
    Link Parent
    What you're describing in the first paragraph is a little closer to Variable Interval Reinforcement except that for that you would want to use a random timer to determine when the reward arrives...

    What you're describing in the first paragraph is a little closer to Variable Interval Reinforcement except that for that you would want to use a random timer to determine when the reward arrives to encourage action over the entire interval (versus periods of low activity right after each hour with no reward). I've experimented with that one but haven't found it as personally helpful as the Variable Ratio schedule, though there's a good amount of scientific literature about it as well.

    I view discipline like a muscle that you can build up through regular exercise, and maybe this will help folks do so

    This idea is well supported- the part of the brain that is getting trained is the anterior midcingulate cortex. In my time of applying intermittent reward, I've seen improvements in my ability to apply willpower, but the use of intermittent reward to train willpower is in the realm of anecdote and animal studies at this time.

    4 votes
  6. Comment on How are you using Intermittent Reward? (and why you should think about trying it) in ~talk

    Trev
    Link Parent
    My pattern looks something like this: Notice some mental resistance in between me and something I want to do but can't seem to get going Think of a suitable reward (sometimes just whatever...

    My pattern looks something like this:

    1. Notice some mental resistance in between me and something I want to do but can't seem to get going
    2. Think of a suitable reward (sometimes just whatever less-than-fully-productive thing I was going to do next)
    3. Start doing the thing that is actually in line with values/goals until I feel like I've earned the reward chance- usually enough work that it wouldn't have happened without the motivation boost
    4. Check the RNG (currently the pre-release app, but previously a google search for "1d20" and rewarding >10)
    5. Enjoy the reward or go back to 3 if I didn't win

    I'm only half of the administrator for the reward because the other half comes from some source of real RNG, so I just have to commit myself to withholding the treat from myself until the RNG says I can have it and making rolls when I've earned them

    3 votes
  7. How are you using Intermittent Reward? (and why you should think about trying it)

    Random Intermittent Reward (known as Variable Ratio Reinforcement Schedule in the field of Applied Behavior Analysis) is a powerful concept from psychology. It states that the increase in...

    Random Intermittent Reward (known as Variable Ratio Reinforcement Schedule in the field of Applied Behavior Analysis) is a powerful concept from psychology. It states that the increase in motivation (through dopamine) from the anticipation of a reward is stronger when the reward is not guaranteed. You can see this effect in action with gambling, social media, mobile games (especially loot boxes), and dog training. If you're noticing themes of manipulation or addiction, that's not accidental. In the most typical and visible places that random intermittent rewards are implemented, it reinforces behaviors that are not well aligned with people's values.

    It seems like a waste for something this effective to only be used against us, when it could be a huge asset for our personal growth.

    I want to know if you have tried using this concept to motivate yourself to do things that are important to you. How did it go? What kind of behaviors were you trying to motivate? What kind of rewards worked or didn't?

    Disclaimer: I've been using this concept for a while now to great effect, so I'm building a phone app to make it easier, more effective, and fun to use. You can go to https://tantaluspath.com to see more information and sign up to get notified when the app is available.

    21 votes
  8. Comment on Jordan Peterson announces free speech platform Thinkspot in ~tech

    Trev
    Link Parent
    Won't have to be witty Won't have to be witty Won't have to be witty Won't have to be witty Won't have to be witty Won't have to be witty Won't have to be witty Won't have to be witty Won't have...

    “If minimum comment length is 50 words, you’re gonna have to put a little thought into it,” Peterson said. “Even if you’re being a troll, you’ll be a quasi-witty troll.”

    Won't have to be witty 
    Won't have to be witty
    Won't have to be witty
    Won't have to be witty
    Won't have to be witty
    Won't have to be witty
    Won't have to be witty
    Won't have to be witty
    Won't have to be witty
    Won't have to be witty
    

    or

    Won't have to be witty a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
    

    Repetition or meaningless filler to get past a minimum post size has such a long history on the internet I wonder how serious the endeavor is that hasn't thought of it.

    21 votes
  9. Comment on Rust is not a good C replacement in ~comp

    Trev
    Link Parent
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19482669 Here's the other discussion. Notable sentiments (paraphrased): Rust team members disagree with the point about hostility toward other build systems...

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19482669

    Here's the other discussion. Notable sentiments (paraphrased):

    • Rust team members disagree with the point about hostility toward other build systems (and methodology the author used to arrive at his own conclusion)
    • People largely disagree with the author's sentiment of not caring about safety
    • A lot of the points in the article are explained by "Rust was released <4 years ago and C is ~45 years old" and therefore should fall under "wait and see" instead of "Rust cannot replace C because of [reason]"
    • Concurrency is not bad but is difficult, so using the language to wrangle it effectively is good
    20 votes
  10. Comment on Soy sauce is one of the most important ingredients in Japanese cooking, but chances are you've never tasted the real thing in ~food

    Trev
    Link Parent
    As someone that regularly enjoys mass produced goods, this is a little insulting, and misses the marks on facts. For example, you've classified "virtually ever" beer as fake, calling out three...

    As someone that regularly enjoys mass produced goods, this is a little insulting, and misses the marks on facts.

    For example, you've classified "virtually ever" beer as fake, calling out three major breweries, but then state that "Virtually any micro-brew in the USA can produce something that tastes better". This latter quote may be correct in a subjective sense, but you haven't justified calling the major ones fake. In fact, because there are many breweries putting out various quality products at different price points, beer is hardly a scarce or expensive commodity, and buyers of mass produced beers aren't being hoodwinked into it given alternatives.

    On cheese, similarly. American cheese may be distasteful to some, but it's not even fake. It's more processed than many cheeses, but cheese is processed dairy. A similar argument applies to wonderbread: it's a beloved product even if some people don't prefer it, and I'm wondering what definition of bread you are using that can distinguish it from other types you consider legitimate.

    In these cases, where each of these goods have readily available substitutes, consumers aren't being deceived into repeatedly buying cheaper goods, nor are they wrong for not buying higher-brow foods. It's not a race to cheapest-all-corners-cut: reducing costs and quality may result in hitting a sweet spot not seen in the market yet attracting new buyers, or miss the mark pushing existing buyers to alternatives. The assertion that quality is subject to one direction degradation is not true, and there are many examples counterexamples [edit].

    Assuming you are talking about American capitalism: saying that "only the rich can eat food that tastes good" needs a huge citation. In my limited research, good tasting food is readily available at a cheaper price than perhaps any time in history. Is the point that the food you are accustomed to is much more expensive than the food that tastes perfectly good to other people and wouldn't be affordable to them?

    Maybe I've missed the point, but I think in many metrics we are in a golden age of food. It's a feature that because of modern processes I can buy Budlight, WonderBread, American Cheese, and cheap soy sauce and make good food that doesn't break the bank: in the past I wouldn't have that choice.

    4 votes