This was a great piece of speculative fiction that almost reads like non-fiction! But is anyone else horrified at the prospect of this? Imagine yourself “waking up” as one of the copies, in a...
This was a great piece of speculative fiction that almost reads like non-fiction! But is anyone else horrified at the prospect of this? Imagine yourself “waking up” as one of the copies, in a simulation, and then being used, abused, and experimented on by others in the fashion described in the story. This paragraph in particular made me uncomfortable and sad:
End states
MMAcevedo develops early-onset dementia at the age of 59 with ideal care, but is prone to a slew of more serious mental illnesses within a matter of 1–2 subjective years under heavier workloads. In experiments, the longest-lived MMAcevedo underwent brain death due to entropy increase at a subjective age of 145.
SOMA made me so angry because the protagonist did not get it even at the end. It was so frustrating watching him be confused by the same exact concept three separate times.
SOMA made me so angry because the protagonist did not get it even at the end. It was so frustrating watching him be confused by the same exact concept three separate times.
That's honestly my only gripe about the game. It seemed like the devs weren't quite confident enough in the player to get it, so they felt the need to really drive it home & make the protagonist a...
That's honestly my only gripe about the game. It seemed like the devs weren't quite confident enough in the player to get it, so they felt the need to really drive it home & make the protagonist a bit dense to justify repeating themselves to the player.
You're probably right. It was actually quite brilliant from a player control pov, to not change your perspective at the very end. But from his point of view... dude, if you're doing a mind...
You're probably right. It was actually quite brilliant from a player control pov, to not change your perspective at the very end. But from his point of view... dude, if you're doing a mind transfer, you've already lost the coin flip. The person who wins the coin flip doesn't exist yet. He gets surprised every time. I was frustrated, my wife was laughing her ass off.
Oh, cool. I actually own the game already (I think I got it in a bundle), but never got around to playing it. I will be sure to play it now though, since that sounds right up my alley. :P
Oh, cool. I actually own the game already (I think I got it in a bundle), but never got around to playing it. I will be sure to play it now though, since that sounds right up my alley. :P
Permutation City by Greg Egan follows this premise, but obviously explored to a larger degree with more existential dread. All mind uploads are required (by law) to be able to self-delete. No mind...
Permutation City by Greg Egan follows this premise, but obviously explored to a larger degree with more existential dread. All mind uploads are required (by law) to be able to self-delete. No mind upload has lasted longer than something like 15 minutes before deleting themselves.
The novel starts out from the perspective of a person who is initially disoriented by waking up, then over a couple paragraphs realizes that they're not their original self, but a mind upload. Horrified, they attempt to self-delete, only to discover that their original has removed the self-delete option. Their original makes a deal with them: do the research and work I need you to do, and I'll let you delete yourself.
The rest of the book is appropriately mind boggling and bonkers.
The book "The Quantum Thief" (and its sequels) is partly based on this premise, and it's about as horrifying as you imagine. It's been said that, if mind-uploading is ever invented, it's best to...
The book "The Quantum Thief" (and its sequels) is partly based on this premise, and it's about as horrifying as you imagine. It's been said that, if mind-uploading is ever invented, it's best to opt for cremation. Even if you're still alive.
Every time a book recommendation thread comes along, "The Quantum Thief" is one that I suggest. I love how it manages to deal with such wildly futuristic technologies while still coming across as...
Every time a book recommendation thread comes along, "The Quantum Thief" is one that I suggest. I love how it manages to deal with such wildly futuristic technologies while still coming across as hard sci-fi.
Fantastically unsettling in its verisimilitude, and all too plausible if we ever invent such technology. Note that the author, qntm, published a related story set in the same universe ("Driver")...
Fantastically unsettling in its verisimilitude, and all too plausible if we ever invent such technology.
I recently was linked to this wiki-entry-like short story in the comments of a thread in the fediverse, and it's the first piece of fiction in ages that I have saved for re-reading. The comments...
I recently was linked to this wiki-entry-like short story in the comments of a thread in the fediverse, and it's the first piece of fiction in ages that I have saved for re-reading.
The comments under the actual piece of fiction are also rather interesting in that some people react very differently to it.
PS: I posted this here in ~misc because it isn't a book and I couldn't find something for short stories.
There are comments at the very bottom of the page, in a blue button that says "show discussion". I had to check again, I think the positioning and design makes it kind of easy for people to pass...
There are comments at the very bottom of the page, in a blue button that says "show discussion". I had to check again, I think the positioning and design makes it kind of easy for people to pass over it as part of the footer.
I didn't see much discussion in the fediverse thread (just me and another person thanking the commenter above us for this link). The thread itself was about someone who asked whether they could...
I didn't see much discussion in the fediverse thread (just me and another person thanking the commenter above us for this link). The thread itself was about someone who asked whether they could make an objective version of themselves by uploading their diary to an LLM.
The interesting comments I was referring to were at the bottom of the page the link directs to (press the "Show Discussion" button at the bottom).
I think the scariest part for me is the idea of red motivation, which works though the AI responds poorly. I interpret blue and red as pleasure and pain, with the implication being that some of...
I think the scariest part for me is the idea of red motivation, which works though the AI responds poorly. I interpret blue and red as pleasure and pain, with the implication being that some of these copies, as standard practice, are tortured into compliance.
The xmas episode of black mirror (season one) is really about this.... and so the videogame called Soma. This was really interesting to read. Thanks for sharing.
The xmas episode of black mirror (season one) is really about this.... and so the videogame called Soma.
This was really interesting to read. Thanks for sharing.
Really great piece of fiction, loved reading this. Others have shared some good recommendations, I'll share a piece of fiction that's a more positive spin on this concept - the "Bobiverse" by...
Really great piece of fiction, loved reading this.
Others have shared some good recommendations, I'll share a piece of fiction that's a more positive spin on this concept - the "Bobiverse" by Dennis Taylor: https://www.goodreads.com/series/192752-bobiverse
I read somewhere that the title is a nod to the Swedish model Lena Forsén, whose photo in a Playboy centerfold became a popular test image for computer systems in the 90s.
I read somewhere that the title is a nod to the Swedish model Lena Forsén, whose photo in a Playboy centerfold became a popular test image for computer systems in the 90s.
It's right at the top of the comments under the story, in a comment by the author. Iirc HeLa cells are also mentioned if not by the author then by a comment not much further down.
It's right at the top of the comments under the story, in a comment by the author. Iirc HeLa cells are also mentioned if not by the author then by a comment not much further down.
Ok, I've just finished two collections of short fiction by this author: Valuable Humans in Transit and Other Stories (this one contains Lena, the short story that started this thread) There Is No...
Ok, I've just finished two collections of short fiction by this author: Valuable Humans in Transit and Other Stories (this one contains Lena, the short story that started this thread) There Is No Antimemetics Division
Loving everything so far and highly recommend it to anyone else on this thread!
The second collection is about "antimemetic" entities of all sorts-- creatures that are effectively invisible because they can't be remembered, or, worse, actively eat the memories of observers.
The author's fiction is all listed here: https://qntm.org/fiction
I very much appreciate that they've made their fiction available on a "pay-what-you-want" basis. Very generous!
This was a great piece of speculative fiction that almost reads like non-fiction! But is anyone else horrified at the prospect of this? Imagine yourself “waking up” as one of the copies, in a simulation, and then being used, abused, and experimented on by others in the fashion described in the story. This paragraph in particular made me uncomfortable and sad:
You might enjoy the video game SOMA. Its central plot tension deals with this exact premise.
SOMA made me so angry because the protagonist did not get it even at the end. It was so frustrating watching him be confused by the same exact concept three separate times.
That's honestly my only gripe about the game. It seemed like the devs weren't quite confident enough in the player to get it, so they felt the need to really drive it home & make the protagonist a bit dense to justify repeating themselves to the player.
You're probably right. It was actually quite brilliant from a player control pov, to not change your perspective at the very end. But from his point of view... dude, if you're doing a mind transfer, you've already lost the coin flip. The person who wins the coin flip doesn't exist yet. He gets surprised every time. I was frustrated, my wife was laughing her ass off.
Oh, cool. I actually own the game already (I think I got it in a bundle), but never got around to playing it. I will be sure to play it now though, since that sounds right up my alley. :P
Permutation City by Greg Egan follows this premise, but obviously explored to a larger degree with more existential dread. All mind uploads are required (by law) to be able to self-delete. No mind upload has lasted longer than something like 15 minutes before deleting themselves.
The novel starts out from the perspective of a person who is initially disoriented by waking up, then over a couple paragraphs realizes that they're not their original self, but a mind upload. Horrified, they attempt to self-delete, only to discover that their original has removed the self-delete option. Their original makes a deal with them: do the research and work I need you to do, and I'll let you delete yourself.
The rest of the book is appropriately mind boggling and bonkers.
Ooof, that's horrible. But an awesome story premise. I have added it to my reading list now too. Thanks for the recommendation!
The book "The Quantum Thief" (and its sequels) is partly based on this premise, and it's about as horrifying as you imagine. It's been said that, if mind-uploading is ever invented, it's best to opt for cremation. Even if you're still alive.
Edit: Good book series though.
Added to my reading list. Thanks for the recommendation!
Every time a book recommendation thread comes along, "The Quantum Thief" is one that I suggest. I love how it manages to deal with such wildly futuristic technologies while still coming across as hard sci-fi.
Here it is formatted like a Wikipedia article: https://i.imgur.com/i0sze4U.jpg
Fantastically unsettling in its verisimilitude, and all too plausible if we ever invent such technology.
Note that the author, qntm, published a related story set in the same universe ("Driver") in his recent collection Valuable Humans in Transit and Other Stories.
I loved this collection, and it is a very fast read. Months out, I still think about the Turing test short story.
I recently was linked to this wiki-entry-like short story in the comments of a thread in the fediverse, and it's the first piece of fiction in ages that I have saved for re-reading.
The comments under the actual piece of fiction are also rather interesting in that some people react very differently to it.
PS: I posted this here in ~misc because it isn't a book and I couldn't find something for short stories.
Could you please link that fediverse thread?
I would love to see more discussion about this.
There are comments at the very bottom of the page, in a blue button that says "show discussion". I had to check again, I think the positioning and design makes it kind of easy for people to pass over it as part of the footer.
Thanks a lot for this!
I was able to find the discussion and it offered the context I was looking for!
I didn't see much discussion in the fediverse thread (just me and another person thanking the commenter above us for this link). The thread itself was about someone who asked whether they could make an objective version of themselves by uploading their diary to an LLM.
The interesting comments I was referring to were at the bottom of the page the link directs to (press the "Show Discussion" button at the bottom).
Thanks a lot for this!
I was able to find the discussion and it offered the context I was looking for!
I think the scariest part for me is the idea of red motivation, which works though the AI responds poorly. I interpret blue and red as pleasure and pain, with the implication being that some of these copies, as standard practice, are tortured into compliance.
The xmas episode of black mirror (season one) is really about this.... and so the videogame called Soma.
This was really interesting to read. Thanks for sharing.
Really great piece of fiction, loved reading this.
Others have shared some good recommendations, I'll share a piece of fiction that's a more positive spin on this concept - the "Bobiverse" by Dennis Taylor: https://www.goodreads.com/series/192752-bobiverse
This is insanely well written. How harrowing to think about... and cool to read if you like tech.
This reminds me of HeLa cells.
I read somewhere that the title is a nod to the Swedish model Lena Forsén, whose photo in a Playboy centerfold became a popular test image for computer systems in the 90s.
It's right at the top of the comments under the story, in a comment by the author. Iirc HeLa cells are also mentioned if not by the author then by a comment not much further down.
Good short read, thanks for sharing. Aside from all the other items people have mentioned, Cory Doctorow's book "Walkaway" deals directly with this.
Ok, I've just finished two collections of short fiction by this author:
Valuable Humans in Transit and Other Stories (this one contains Lena, the short story that started this thread)
There Is No Antimemetics Division
Loving everything so far and highly recommend it to anyone else on this thread!
The second collection is about "antimemetic" entities of all sorts-- creatures that are effectively invisible because they can't be remembered, or, worse, actively eat the memories of observers.
The author's fiction is all listed here:
https://qntm.org/fiction
I very much appreciate that they've made their fiction available on a "pay-what-you-want" basis. Very generous!