33 votes

Intel's next-gen Meteor Lake CPUs: A game-changing 40-year architectural shift to rival Apple

18 comments

  1. [15]
    Greg
    (edited )
    Link
    It’ll be great if this lives up to the headline - I hadn’t really appreciated how big a deal Apple’s power efficiency was until I took a new MacBook Pro on a couple of long haul flights last week....

    It’ll be great if this lives up to the headline - I hadn’t really appreciated how big a deal Apple’s power efficiency was until I took a new MacBook Pro on a couple of long haul flights last week. One way I managed a full 8 hour workday plugged into the 8W seat back USB A port and still had 100% battery when I landed; the other comfortably lasted about the same amount of time on battery alone because the USB sockets on my row weren’t working.

    That’s just a total transformation of how I use a laptop, and I’m so used to dismissing marketing bullshit that I absolutely didn’t expect it. Battery had always meant “you’ve got a few hours of use on the road between desks where you can plug in” - the idea that it’s feasible to charge overnight and use all day like a phone is a whole different thing. If these chips can bring that closer to being the standard across the board it’s a huge, huge win.


    [Edit] This got me wondering about the numbers and it turns out that the $35, 100Wh power bank that I also keep in my laptop bag for emergency phone charging is 40% larger than the MBP’s internal battery. Between the two that’s a plausible 3 full days of use just with what I was carrying anyway!

    24 votes
    1. [11]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [3]
        TangibleLight
        Link Parent
        The battery situation on Linux is currently worse than that on Windows in my experience. The article makes a fuss about Intel working with Microsoft to improve task scheduling on Windows... I...

        The battery situation on Linux is currently worse than that on Windows in my experience.

        The article makes a fuss about Intel working with Microsoft to improve task scheduling on Windows... I wonder if any effort is made to improve the situation on Linux. Somehow I doubt it but I hope I'm wrong, or at least that the community can put together some improvements after release.

        6 votes
        1. [2]
          vord
          Link Parent
          I've not played with a Windows laptop in some time, but I've found that the biggest problem of Linux battery life is getting all the tweaking done. OOTB often leaves substantial room for...

          I've not played with a Windows laptop in some time, but I've found that the biggest problem of Linux battery life is getting all the tweaking done. OOTB often leaves substantial room for improvement.

          Insuring TLP is installed and configured properly is a good start. Afterwards your DE tends to have a lot of specific settings to fine tune that TLP explicitly doesn't, especially relating to backlight management.

          2 votes
          1. ButteredToast
            Link Parent
            Linux power management also varies from laptop to laptop which makes it more difficult to get consistently right. What applies for one model might not for another, and the ceiling for efficiency...

            Linux power management also varies from laptop to laptop which makes it more difficult to get consistently right. What applies for one model might not for another, and the ceiling for efficiency on some models is quite low due to little to no deep integration with the device's firmware.

            For example there's Linux packages specifically aimed at power management for Lenovo machines that aren't useful for anything else. Some distros ship these types of packages while others don't, and not all models have packages like that.

            5 votes
      2. [7]
        sneakeyboard
        Link Parent
        I strongly believe the majority of battery issues with other laptops are mainly due to how terrible windows is optimized. While hardware matters, the software that runs on it matters as well....

        I strongly believe the majority of battery issues with other laptops are mainly due to how terrible windows is optimized. While hardware matters, the software that runs on it matters as well. Apple's advantage is that both software and hardware is developed internally.

        I understand that these M-devices are considered "laptops," but they are completely different technologies and shouldn't be compared to traditional laptops because they're completely different products. Apple has been building these "computers" since the first iphone and seem to be trying to unify their ecosystem further with how these devices operate. Costs and branding aside, I still consider these M-variants an amazing device but not a fully-functional computer replacement; you can't run anything outside their app store and only time will tell how well Apple implements compatibility with X-86 applications. That said, the integration of their app store with these devices and their capabilities make them suitable for general purpose and unsurprisingly, that covers the majority of end-users.

        Unless I'm mistaken, intel's CPU is still x-86 based and Apple switched to ARM. As @vord mentioned, the move reads a LOT like AMD's announcement for Ryzen with the "glued-down" technology that intel mocked at some point and not a response to Apple as the article's title suggests.

        4 votes
        1. [3]
          smores
          Link Parent
          This... isn't true, actually! There's a single (admittedly somewhat hidden) toggle in System Settings on macOS to allow installation of any software, signed or unsigned, App Store or not. This has...

          you can't run anything outside their app store and only time will tell how well Apple implements compatibility with X-86 applications.

          This... isn't true, actually! There's a single (admittedly somewhat hidden) toggle in System Settings on macOS to allow installation of any software, signed or unsigned, App Store or not. This has been the case for... a long time! The entire life of the App Store, in fact.

          Apple's M1 computers also launched with Rosetta 2, a compatibility layer that lets users run software built for Intel chips on Apple silicon. There are a small number of types of applications (VM software and software that relies on kernel extensions) that won't work with Rosetta, but nearly all of the programs in those categories have been built for Apple Silicon/arm64 by now.

          I think "M1/M2 MacBooks aren't really computers" is an... odd take, and one that I simply don't think holds any water.

          18 votes
          1. Akir
            Link Parent
            Yeah, that comment about Apple's computers not being computers was really weird. The only meaningful difference between what Apple is doing and what everyone else is doing is that they are using...

            Yeah, that comment about Apple's computers not being computers was really weird. The only meaningful difference between what Apple is doing and what everyone else is doing is that they are using the ARM ISA instead of x86. And if Intel and AMD offered licensing as favorable as ARM's, there's a pretty good chance they would have built their silicon to use their ISA instead.

            8 votes
          2. ButteredToast
            Link Parent
            Furthermore, it's possible to run x86 Windows applications two different ways: Through WINE, which runs x86 Windows app via Rosetta 2 Through Parallels running Windows for ARM, which has its own...

            Furthermore, it's possible to run x86 Windows applications two different ways:

            1. Through WINE, which runs x86 Windows app via Rosetta 2
            2. Through Parallels running Windows for ARM, which has its own (less performant) x86 translation

            It's also possible to run Linux for ARM through several different virtualization apps, and Apple even provides a way to use Rosetta to run x86 Linux binaries inside of ARM Linux VMs.

            4 votes
        2. mild_takes
          Link Parent
          To call them not computers is absurd. @smores points out that you can in fact run non apple signed apps, and IIRC the warning dialog actually points you to the correct spot to allow unsigned apps...

          I understand that these M-devices are considered "laptops," but they are completely different technologies and shouldn't be compared to traditional laptops because they're completely different products. Apple has been building these "computers" since the first iphone and seem to be trying to unify their ecosystem further with how these devices operate

          To call them not computers is absurd.

          @smores points out that you can in fact run non apple signed apps, and IIRC the warning dialog actually points you to the correct spot to allow unsigned apps to run.

          Beyond that there is nothing windows or Linux are doing that is outside of the realm of what MacOS is doing. The big difference is what software is MADE for MacOS, not what software its capable of running.

          8 votes
        3. [2]
          Greg
          Link Parent
          I, and many others, use macOS as our primary platform for writing software. It is very much a fully featured computing environment on ARM as well as on x86, it’ll happily let you run anything up...

          I, and many others, use macOS as our primary platform for writing software. It is very much a fully featured computing environment on ARM as well as on x86, it’ll happily let you run anything up to and including that definitelyNotMalware() function you copied from stack0verflow.com, and once you get past the UI it has as much functionally in common with FreeBSD as iOS.

          That’s not to say I’m totally happy: Apple are still occasionally making gestures that hint at plans for iOS-style lock in, and there are one or two filesystem limitations that I don’t agree with, but to say it’s not a laptop is just flat wrong. I think ultimately we’re safe because Apple do still need something for devs to write iOS apps on, so their hands are pretty much tied on leaving macOS open, but if I’m wrong and that day ever does come I guarantee you MacBook Pro sales will plummet.

          8 votes
          1. ButteredToast
            Link Parent
            Apple seems to see Macs as categorically different from iDevices, even if the two share a lot of hardware and software these days. It's why they added support for booting third-party operating...

            Apple seems to see Macs as categorically different from iDevices, even if the two share a lot of hardware and software these days. It's why they added support for booting third-party operating systems to M-series Macs when they absolutely didn't have to — it would've been much easier to just do a direct copy of the iOS bootloader without writing all of the new bits for arbitrary OS support.

            Most of the restrictions added to macOS in the past few years have more to do with security than with lock-in. For instance system directories being immutable is done to make persistent malware more difficult to implement and to prevent badly behaving software from poking its nose where it shouldn't (looking at you Adobe) and inadvertently corrupting system files in the process. It also makes updates more reliable since they can just copy in a single file (read-only overlay disk image) instead of modifying hundreds or thousands. Some Linux distributions like Fedora Silverblue are now doing something similar.

            4 votes
    2. [4]
      Gaywallet
      Link Parent
      Have you used a newer laptop that wasn't a mac? I have a 2-in-1 convertible that when doing basic tasks like browsing the web, text editor, etc. easily lasts me 6-8hrs. I also have a small server...

      Have you used a newer laptop that wasn't a mac? I have a 2-in-1 convertible that when doing basic tasks like browsing the web, text editor, etc. easily lasts me 6-8hrs. I also have a small server I run on an intel NUC that's got a processor as powerful as my 4yr old desktop processor that idles at like 6w and rarely goes above 25w even when multi-transcoding plex streams.

      Five to ten years ago you'd be absolutely correct, intel was not particularly power efficient at low consumption, but the smaller nm processes and increases in processing power per watt that have happened over the last 5 years mostly due to smartphone demands have improved processors for pretty much everyone. Apple had the benefit of reaping these rewards faster because they shared a lot of architecture between phones and laptops, but they aren't miles ahead of any competitor. The field looks very similar no matter the producer of the chip (mac, amd, intel, samsung, qualcomm, etc.)

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        DarthYoshiBoy
        Link Parent
        I've got a modern AMD based Lenovo laptop that regularly goes 12 hours on a charge and it's a 2-in-1 that has a touchscreen, a stylus, a finger print scanner, an excellent trackpad, a TrackPoint...

        I've got a modern AMD based Lenovo laptop that regularly goes 12 hours on a charge and it's a 2-in-1 that has a touchscreen, a stylus, a finger print scanner, an excellent trackpad, a TrackPoint (which is better for gaming than a trackpad by a mile), a Lenovo keyboard that makes the Mac keyboard look silly, and everything I could want or need away from my Desktop. I find that most people who are enamored with Apple battery life haven't recently checked out the competition.

        Sure the M line chips give pretty great performance per watt, but 99% of the time I either want the absolute best performance I can get (consumption of energy be damned, usually for gaming) or something that will allow me to browse the web, write some code, and watch some movies. A MacBook does one of those really well, and unfortunately for Apple, it's the one that I can do with a $200 Lenovo 2-in-1, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        6 votes
        1. ButteredToast
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I have a ThinkPad X1 Nano Gen 1 and what's frustrating about it is that I have to keep it in power save mode to get halfway decent battery life (7-8 hours), which makes the machine noticeably slow...

          I have a ThinkPad X1 Nano Gen 1 and what's frustrating about it is that I have to keep it in power save mode to get halfway decent battery life (7-8 hours), which makes the machine noticeably slow and laggy, somewhat reminiscent of the old Core 2 Duo laptop sitting in my closet. The other thing is that whenever it does anything even remotely challenging (even handling a single 2560x1440 external display but otherwise idle) its fan becomes very audible.

          Meanwhile my M1 Pro MPB can be firing on all cylinders compiling code while unplugged without a performance hit, without its fan being audible, driving a brighter higher resolution screen with battery life better than the Nano gets in power save mode.

          I don't really care for maximum performance in a laptop… that's what my well cooled tower with a desktop CPU and GPU are for. In a laptop I want decent performance, efficiency, and silence and it's shockingly hard to find that balance in the x86 world.

          2 votes
      2. Greg
        Link Parent
        It’s a good question, and I haven’t - my direct point of comparison was the 2019 Intel MacBook Pro that I’d been using before, so it’s far from a scientific test: older x86 tech, older battery...

        It’s a good question, and I haven’t - my direct point of comparison was the 2019 Intel MacBook Pro that I’d been using before, so it’s far from a scientific test: older x86 tech, older battery tech, four years of use and degradation, etc. etc.

        I was tied to having a Mac laptop for work either way, so I didn’t really go deep on reviews, but almost all that I saw called out the battery life as especially good - and I was still a little dismissive until I saw it myself. If it turns out the rest of the industry is already more or less there as well that’s awesome!

        3 votes
  2. [2]
    vord
    (edited )
    Link
    Of course this wasn't a response to Apple's M1. M1 came out first in 2020. This was a response to AMD changing the game with the 2016 announcements of Ryzen/EPYC. I also recall AMD's Skyridge...

    Of course this wasn't a response to Apple's M1. M1 came out first in 2020. This was a response to AMD changing the game with the 2016 announcements of Ryzen/EPYC. I also recall AMD's Skyridge project circa 2012 which got canned, but was ahead of its time in bridging the gap between ARM and x86. I forsee it might still see the light of day, and be a gamechanger the way x86_64 was.

    The chiplet architecture with Infinityfabric let them scale core counts in a way Intel was incapable of, but also laid the groundwork for letting you sub out regular CPU cores with GPU cores (or whatever dedicated other core you wanted). Intel saw it for what it was: AMD's path to eating Intel's server market alive. Doubly so because it let them break the process limit that Intel was stuck on at the time.

    And it worked. Before EPYC, AMD was down to < 4% of the server market. Now, 7 years later, they're up to > 20%. This is quite astounding. Consider that most server purchases have a 3-7 year lifecycle. Especially since introducing an alternative CPU architecture comes with additional challenges for enterprise...they won't readily switch unless the upside heavily mitigates those risks. Seeing a 17%+ jump inside of a decade means the next decade may well see a total flip. Personally, I'd like to see both Intel and AMD both sitting around 50% of the market, as they both are at their best when they have the other as meaningful competition.

    This review is older, but highlights the Intel vs AMD laptop game well. In an otherwise identical laptop, the AMD laptop had far superior battery life, especially when doing heavy lifting.

    AMD is offering not just serious competition, but is eating Intel's margins in the process. Intel has to price aggressively in a way they didn't for a decade. And that is way more of a threat than anything Apple does, unless Apple is gonna start propping up datacenters.

    As a random aside I thought of, we really need to migrate off the "nm" naming scheme for die processes. With 2nm it's turning into a worthless marketing gimmick instead of shorthand information about the capabilities of the process.

    14 votes
    1. sneakeyboard
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      My first thought was about AMD and how they pushed the envelope towards what is 64-bit architecture today; they're usually the first to risk improvements on R&D for both CPUs and GPUs. Also:...

      My first thought was about AMD and how they pushed the envelope towards what is 64-bit architecture today; they're usually the first to risk improvements on R&D for both CPUs and GPUs.

      Also: didn't intel snatch AMD's lead engineer for Ryzen/EPIC? I take it this is what he's been working on since then. Interesting stuff and 100% agree that the likelihood of Apple competing is relatively low.

      edit: I will add that while the response isn't to Apple's M-chips, they could be targeting to compete with them later on. Unlikely but the article reads like AMD's announcement for Ryzen.

      And yes, I'm also curios about what will be the next denomination after nm...pm? My issue is that these tell you nothing as the metric isn't really an accurate measure and more of a stamp you'd find on those "As seen on TV" products.

      4 votes
  3. Amun
    Link
    Daniel Rubino with contributions from Ben Wilson Intel is taking off the wraps on Meteor Lake, its next-gen power-efficient processors. The company broke down its new architecture based on a...

    Daniel Rubino with contributions from Ben Wilson


    Intel is taking off the wraps on Meteor Lake, its next-gen power-efficient processors.

    Intel calls Meteor Lake its "biggest architectural shift in 40 years" and that it will "lay the foundation for innovations for the PC," as noted by Tim Wilson, VP, Design and Engineering Group and GM, SoC Design at Intel.

    Previous generation naming would suggest it would be called Intel 14th Gen, but Intel is moving away from its older naming schema. Some reports have suggested Meteor Lake may reflect a reboot in generation numbers.
    Interestingly, while Meteor Lake may finally start to match Apple on efficiency, the design and feature set for Meteor Lake began over four years ago before Apple's M-series existed. That means Meteor Lake isn't so much a reaction to Apple's M-series but was planned independently.

    The company broke down its new architecture based on a "tile" design and disaggregated components.

    The significant change for Meteor Lake is what Intel calls disaggregation, which means the breaking down of core components into separate ‘tiles’ on the SoC. Meteor Lake features four Tiles, including:

    • Compute Tile: New E-core and P-core microarchitecture, built on Intel 4 process technology
    • SoC Tile: Low power island E-cores, NPU, Wi-Fi 6E/7, native HDMI 2.1 and 8K HDR AV1 support
    • Graphics Tile: Integrated Intel Arc architecture
    • IO Tile: Thunderbolt 4 (and presumably Thunderbolt 5) and PCIe Gen5

    First, separating core components (“disaggregating”) allows the SoC to turn off certain parts when not used. For instance, Media IP, including support for playing back video, previously was on the integrated GPU. However, Intel doesn’t need that much power for just video, so instead, it has moved to the main SoC Tile. This means when streaming or using local video file playback, the power-hungry integrated GPU “shuts off” since everything needed is found on the SoC Tile.

    New low-level E-cores, an NPU for AI, and a brand-new GPU based on Arc graphics.

    Next is the introduction of new low-power island E-cores. Intel Alder and Raptor Lake chips featured E-cores (“efficiency”) for lower power functions and P-cores (“performance”) for primary ones where more power is needed. Those cores, while improved in Meteor Lake, have been moved to the new Compute Tile. New and additional low-power island E-cores remain on the SoC Tile. These new E-cores draw even less power and offer a third level of performance, mainly for system background functionality in Windows. The updated Intel Thread Director, in combination with optimizations in Windows 11, lets the OS handle which cores get used for which tasks.

    Think of it this way: When your PC is idling and not running any core tasks, these low-power E-cores take over, letting the P- and E-cores on the Compute Tile “turn off.”

    Intel includes a discrete neural processing unit (NPU) on the SoC Tile. This chip offloads AI tasks like background blurring for webcams, on-the-fly noise removal for microphones, and even localized large language models (LLMs). This frees up all the P- and E-cores for everyday Windows tasks without degradation in performance. Moreover, Intel’s NPU draws much less power, which adds to the increased efficiency of Meteor Lake.

    The GPU is also getting a significant overhaul as Intel is porting its Arc GPU technology to Meteor Lake, delivering up to 2x the performance of Iris Xe found in 12th and 13th-generation CPUs. Because it’s built on Arc, driver compatibility is mainly taken care of, as Intel has created upwards of 30 drivers for Arc in the last year.

    When all these tiles are combined and managed by the Intel Thread Director (and Windows 11), Intel has maintained (or exceeded performance) while sharply reducing power consumption since there are specialized pieces of the SoC for every task, and none require the other tiles to be powered to function.

    Meteor Lake is built on an Intel 4 process node with Foveros 3D packaging.

    Intel uses its new Foveros advanced packaging technology, which uses “high density, high bandwidth, low power interconnects to enable large, disaggregated die complexes made up of individual tiles manufactured across multiple process nodes.”

    The design and feature set for Meteor Lake began four years ago.

    The shift is so significant that it's undoubtedly related to a total reset of its naming system. Rather than simply becoming the predictable 15th Gen, Meteor Lake marks a significant milestone at the dawn of locally-processed AI with a dedicated NPU alongside an overhaul to integrated graphics with Intel Arc.

    The big question, of course, is how Intel's Meteor Lake compares to Qualcomm's forthcoming Oryon (ARM) processors (made by the team who designed Apple's processors), where AMD goes with Ryzen, and how Intel's efficiency efforts compare to Apple's new M3 series of CPUs. The good news is that processor competition has never looked so good, meaning consumers will be the big winners in 2024.

    Watch Day 1 coverage of Intel Innovation 2023 (takes you to intel.com) from San Jose, California – including a keynote led by Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger.

    8 votes