17 votes

How the Nintendo Switch prevents downgrades by irreparably blowing its own fuses

11 comments

  1. [11]
    stu2b50
    Link
    I don't know, honestly I don't mind these. Nintendo pretty clearly lists out what you're getting with the box when you buy a switch, customizable firmware is not it. And as someone who pirated all...

    I don't know, honestly I don't mind these. Nintendo pretty clearly lists out what you're getting with the box when you buy a switch, customizable firmware is not it.

    And as someone who pirated all of their DS games (R4 baby) when they were a teenager, I'm pretty sure proliferation of custom firmware does damage sales. It really fucked with the PSP in particular.

    Custom firmware also allows people to start hacking online games. And while yes, the Switch as is does have vulnerable editions, and there are hackers right now, I think the added difficulty prevents hordes of script kiddies. There really are very few people dedicated enough to make their own hacks, and I can't imagine too many of them plan on seriously using them for long.

    There was definitely an explosion of hackers on the 3DS after a breakthrough exploit was found, and custom firmware was everywhere.

    10 votes
    1. [3]
      Crespyl
      Link Parent
      I have mixed feelings about this kind of thing. I'm generally ok with reasonable protection measures, as long as manufacturers are up front about what you can expect not to work, but I'm wary of...

      I have mixed feelings about this kind of thing. I'm generally ok with reasonable protection measures, as long as manufacturers are up front about what you can expect not to work, but I'm wary of the longer game around right-to-repair and recycling/e-waste issues.

      I waffled on buying a Switch (the first console I've owned, I'm mostly a PC guy), but the thing that got me to finally pull the trigger was the news that a new hardware revision was starting to show up that had fixed the RCM exploit. I specifically wanted to get an exploitable version of the machine, and most likely would never have bought the device if I knew it didn't have that feature. I have no particular interest in pirating or hacking Switch games, I just want to be able to repurpose and recycle the device after I'm done playing games on it. (I think it'll make a nice portable Netflix and Steam Link device. If nobody else has beat me to it in a few years, it should be a fun project)

      Likewise with my Kobo; I had a secondhand Kindle for a while but found the ecosystem and software obnoxious, and opted for the more hackable and linux friendly system, and have since spent far more on Kobo books and devices (and recommended them to friends/family) than I ever would have with Amazon.

      I think I'd be happier if there was some legal requirement to include some kind of hard-reset physical "backdoor" that would wipe the manufacturer keys/burn a fuse and explicitly allow the user to re-use the device with their own software, while marking it in such a way that the manufacturers original software or network services could refuse to interact with it. If, say, I'm done with using my PS4 as a PS4, I don't care if I have to wipe the TPM (or equivalent subsystem) so it can't decrypt content licenses anymore, since I'll have other things I want to do with it.

      15 votes
      1. vord
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I don't like the ever-growing trend of 'you don't actually own this' technology. I agree with the core concept of being able to opt-out and take total ownership. I do think there should be some...

        right-to-repair and recycling/e-waste issues.

        I don't like the ever-growing trend of 'you don't actually own this' technology.

        I agree with the core concept of being able to opt-out and take total ownership. I do think there should be some way to toggle it though, as I can think of many use cases for various stuff lying around my house that are effectively impossible due to mechanisms like this, and I may or may not want to revert back to the original purpose at any time. A switch is a good case...I wold love to be able to alternate between Switch OS and Android, so I can use as a productivity device as well.

        Edit: Biggest use-case: I would love for ability to opt-out of my TV's OS and flash with a community OS. Imagine the improvements in usability and functionality that a community effort could achieve.

        15 votes
      2. tomf
        Link Parent
        The kobo scene is awesome. I recently got a Libra H20 and absolutely love it. Until I tucked into this scene, I always assumed that the Paperwhite scene was superior. I was so wrong. Like you, I...

        The kobo scene is awesome. I recently got a Libra H20 and absolutely love it.

        Until I tucked into this scene, I always assumed that the Paperwhite scene was superior. I was so wrong.

        Like you, I almost exclusively target systems / devices that can be modded. It feels right.

        9 votes
    2. [7]
      crdpa
      Link Parent
      Most people who pirate games wouldn't buy them. I know me and my friends don't. PSP failed because it was bad. PSX was a huge success and it made Sony what it is today (in gaming). In Brazil,...

      Most people who pirate games wouldn't buy them.

      I know me and my friends don't. PSP failed because it was bad.

      PSX was a huge success and it made Sony what it is today (in gaming). In Brazil, there was no original PSX games for sale. Period.
      Even when renting games, they only had pirated ones.

      The success and popularity of PSX, at least here, was because the pirated games were cheap and abundant.

      PC gaming is still strong and piracy still exists.

      The money now is on online gaming.

      1 vote
      1. [6]
        Diff
        Link Parent
        How'd the PSP fail? In my middle school years the buses and lunch periods were filled with the sounds of UMDs spinning up and friends beating each other up in Dragonball Z over Ad Hoc play. And...

        How'd the PSP fail? In my middle school years the buses and lunch periods were filled with the sounds of UMDs spinning up and friends beating each other up in Dragonball Z over Ad Hoc play.

        And the PSP was a golden age for homebrew. I used my PSP to write a pixel art editor for the PSP in Lua. It was trash and I couldn't draw anyway but I spent weeks tapping out code on the PSP, was probably my first introduction to code outside of copying and pasting JavaScript on a silly web forum. By running different homebrew apps my PSP could become an IR remote or a wired USB controller or even a wired/wireless monitor for my PC.

        I'd say do what you can to combat piracy, but the PSP's openness made it an amazingly versatile homebrew machine that I sadly haven't found an equal to.

        3 votes
        1. [4]
          feigneddork
          Link Parent
          I don't thin the PSP failed. While it didn't sell as well as the Nintendo DS, 84 mill units sold isn't anything to sniff at. The PS Vita, however. Yeah, that definitely smells like a failure,...

          I don't thin the PSP failed. While it didn't sell as well as the Nintendo DS, 84 mill units sold isn't anything to sniff at.

          The PS Vita, however. Yeah, that definitely smells like a failure, estimates say it sold 16 mill units (Sony won't give figures which is very telling).

          3 votes
          1. [3]
            Diff
            Link Parent
            Yeah, the Vita makes me sad. Most people I know who own one use it as an upgraded PSP with a nicer screen and better controls, not even for its own anemic library.

            Yeah, the Vita makes me sad. Most people I know who own one use it as an upgraded PSP with a nicer screen and better controls, not even for its own anemic library.

            3 votes
            1. [2]
              feigneddork
              Link Parent
              I think it was a lot of things, from (I'm guessing) the escalating costs of developing a game for that platform Mobile gaming sort of exploding around that time A lack of strong marketing from...

              I think it was a lot of things, from

              • (I'm guessing) the escalating costs of developing a game for that platform
              • Mobile gaming sort of exploding around that time
              • A lack of strong marketing from Sony. I saw PSP ads everywhere. I saw PS Vita advertised alongside PS4 eventually, but never really it's own thing in terms of TV/billboard marketing.
              • Not the biggest factor, but it did play a part - proprietary, expensive memory sticks. When I heard how much my brother paid for like a 16GB stick (as of now it's £60 in the UK) I couldn't justify buying a system with those sorts of hidden costs.

              It's a shame, because I think they could've learned some lessons from Nintendo - Nintendo always sells decent, relaible but cheap/old tech with a high markup price. As a result, they make bank from every single console and every single game.

              I don't think the PS Vita needed to go that far, but they could cutdown on the excess things like a touchscreen back (even the touchscreen front if I'm being honest) and a simpler SD card system would've done wonders for the system.

              4 votes
              1. Akir
                Link Parent
                As someone who toyed around with developing for the Vita, the biggest problem it had was a lack of third party support. Unity added support for Vita very late in the game, and I am not sure if...

                As someone who toyed around with developing for the Vita, the biggest problem it had was a lack of third party support. Unity added support for Vita very late in the game, and I am not sure if Unreal ever made it at all. That meant that games for the Vita had to be made from the ground up for the platform. This is why the few cross-platform titles for the system typically came out for other systems after the Vita release.

                Sony also gave up on it remarkably quickly. Look at how well it integrated with the PS3 - you could buy games for it on PS3, transfer your files, and backup your saves. None of that came to PS4. It seems like Sony expected it to be a PS3 companion, but when it came to market too late they didn't bother to pivot.

                Likewise, since there was no easy way to transfer the games and saves you weren't using anymore to an external source (there was technically a way to do it with a PC, but the software was terrible), the small expensive memory cards became another liability.

                5 votes
        2. crdpa
          Link Parent
          Didn't knew that. I know that here in Brazil I never saw a PSP until 4 months ago. It failed here. I always wanted one because of the homebrew community, but they were a rare thing here.

          Didn't knew that. I know that here in Brazil I never saw a PSP until 4 months ago. It failed here.

          I always wanted one because of the homebrew community, but they were a rare thing here.

          1 vote