It seems to depend on the exact production process. If the land use change to start producing bioplastics involves cutting down carbon-sink trees and replacing them with plants suited for plastic...
It seems to depend on the exact production process. If the land use change to start producing bioplastics involves cutting down carbon-sink trees and replacing them with plants suited for plastic production but not carbon absorption, you have an increase in greenhouse gas emissions in that step of the process.
But some amount of research appears to suggest that "the harms associated with bioplastics are less severe as compared to conventional plastics." This article also distinguishes between different subcategories of bioplastic: some are apparently more biodegradable and/or non-toxic than others. I think it’s safe to say that some/many/all bioplastics are still bad for the environment and probably toxic to humans in some way, but I would like to see more research on the lifetime emissions and health externalities of oil-based vs. bioplastics.
In any case I agree with the idea that we should reuse containers made out of metal or other relatively sustainable materials instead of relying on disposable objects.
I'm not seeing anything about plastic volume either. Even if the plastic film is just as harmful, is it not a much lesser amount of plastic used than completely plastic product? Can it not be used...
I'm not seeing anything about plastic volume either. Even if the plastic film is just as harmful, is it not a much lesser amount of plastic used than completely plastic product? Can it not be used as a stepping stone while we try to transition people out of the disposable lifestyle?
Additionally, it's much easier to recycle than traditional plastic. Perhaps not recycle into more plastic, but at least compost industrially, which can be done reasonably.
Almroth, Carle, Blanchard, Molinari, Bour Link to the research publication
Almroth, Carle, Blanchard, Molinari, Bour
Reports of plastics pollution contaminating all parts of the Earth and in all living things has accelerated a shift to alternative materials. The coffee latte you take with you from the kiosk on the corner now comes in paper cups, sometimes even with paper lids. But that cup can also harm living organisms if it ends up in nature as they also contain toxic chemicals.
Paper is neither fat nor water resistant, so paper that is used in food packaging material needs to be treated with a surface coating. This plastic protects the paper from the coffee in your hand.
Nowadays, the plastic film is often made of polylactide, PLA, a type of bioplastic. Bioplastics are produced from renewable resources (PLA is commonly produced from corn, cassava or sugarcane) rather than fossil-fuels as is the case for 99% of plastics on the market today.
PLA is often regarded as biodegradable, meaning that it can break down faster than oil-based plastics under the right conditions, but the researchers' study shows that it can still be toxic.
“Bioplastics does not break down effectively when they end up in the environment, in water. There may be a risk that the plastic remains in nature and resulting microplastics can be ingested by animals and humans, just as other plastics do. Bioplastics contain at least as many chemicals as conventional plastic,” says Bethanie Carney Almroth.
“When disposable products arrived on the market after the Second World War, large campaigns were conducted to teach people to throw the products away, it was unnatural to us! Now we need to shift back and move away from disposable life styles.
"It is better if you bring your own mug when buying take away coffee. Or by all means, take a few minutes, sit down and drink your coffee from a porcelain mug,” says Bethanie Carney Almroth.
Professor Almroth is a member of a council of scientists, SCEPT – Scientists Coalition for an Effective Plastics Treaty, which contributes scientific evidence to the negotiations. The council calls for a rapid phasing out of unnecessary and problematic plastics, as well as vigilance to avoid replacing one bad product with another.
Unfortunately I can’t seem to find it now, but there was a great (short) video showing how the Italians serve espresso in their cafes, it took maybe two minutes from ordering to the last sip, and...
Unfortunately I can’t seem to find it now, but there was a great (short) video showing how the Italians serve espresso in their cafes, it took maybe two minutes from ordering to the last sip, and it was all done in a standard porcelain espresso mug.
That works for espresso as there's it's just coffee. There's so little water used that it cools very rapidly, you can't really take espresso to go as it would be cold by the time you got there....
That works for espresso as there's it's just coffee. There's so little water used that it cools very rapidly, you can't really take espresso to go as it would be cold by the time you got there. Milk drinks take a lot longer to make and drink, there's no way up get through a milk drink in that small a time frame.
Regardless, the major reason for the to go lifestyle in America is because of cars. Parking and going in take considerably more time and a lot more space that drive through. In more walkable areas in America, you can get this same experience of coffee in a porcelain cup. But a coffee shop will only support that if they have a lot of foot traffic and no drive through.
I don’t think cars have anything to do with it. It’s just a question if you’re there to chill or you have somewhere to be. There’s people sitting down in cafe in suburban areas in the US as well,...
I don’t think cars have anything to do with it. It’s just a question if you’re there to chill or you have somewhere to be. There’s people sitting down in cafe in suburban areas in the US as well, and no lack of people in NYC strolling towards their next destination with a paper cup.
PLA is not quite as biodegradable as it is often made to seem. Getting rid of PLA involves shredding it and putting them in an extremely rare and expensive commercial heated composting machine....
PLA is not quite as biodegradable as it is often made to seem.
Getting rid of PLA involves shredding it and putting them in an extremely rare and expensive commercial heated composting machine. This of course means it requires energy to heat it. These factors mean that it’s fairly expensive to do this, so it rarely gets done if ever.
In the meanwhile, the heat used to form the plastic in the first place is often enough to make it degrade enough to make it bad for reuse, which means that it doesn’t get recycled either.
In my opinion plastic was one of the biggest mistakes developing societies ever made. Even the supposed benefits of plastic have led to worse overall outcomes. We've become completely dependent on...
In my opinion plastic was one of the biggest mistakes developing societies ever made. Even the supposed benefits of plastic have led to worse overall outcomes. We've become completely dependent on the ability to cheaply seal products in this strong and toxic material. It has completely snuffed out other approaches to food packaging and delivery; leaving us in this spot where we're looking for alternatives that have to meet all the requirements of plastic while also being safe. Which is essentially impossible because at that point we're just asking for plastic but ya'know, safe.
Single use plastics, sure, but plastic has revolutionlizard the medical industry, transportation, spaceflight, research, information technology, and literally every single other industry that...
Single use plastics, sure, but plastic has revolutionlizard the medical industry, transportation, spaceflight, research, information technology, and literally every single other industry that exists.
When plastics are used for its beneficial properties, which few, if any other substances can match, it’s an amazing material that’s been an incredible boon for humanity. It’s just when it’s used for the fact that it’s so cheap that it starts becoming a problem, because those use cases are usually disposable, and a disposable material that doesn’t easily degrade and is potentially toxic is an environmental disaster.
The fact that plastic is just so damn inexpensive is counterintuitively the major issue with it. We use plenty of non biodegradable, potentially harmful materials that haven’t become a major issue because they’re somewhat more expensive, so companies don’t put them in literally everything they produce.
It seems to depend on the exact production process. If the land use change to start producing bioplastics involves cutting down carbon-sink trees and replacing them with plants suited for plastic production but not carbon absorption, you have an increase in greenhouse gas emissions in that step of the process.
But some amount of research appears to suggest that "the harms associated with bioplastics are less severe as compared to conventional plastics." This article also distinguishes between different subcategories of bioplastic: some are apparently more biodegradable and/or non-toxic than others. I think it’s safe to say that some/many/all bioplastics are still bad for the environment and probably toxic to humans in some way, but I would like to see more research on the lifetime emissions and health externalities of oil-based vs. bioplastics.
In any case I agree with the idea that we should reuse containers made out of metal or other relatively sustainable materials instead of relying on disposable objects.
I'm not seeing anything about plastic volume either. Even if the plastic film is just as harmful, is it not a much lesser amount of plastic used than completely plastic product? Can it not be used as a stepping stone while we try to transition people out of the disposable lifestyle?
Additionally, it's much easier to recycle than traditional plastic. Perhaps not recycle into more plastic, but at least compost industrially, which can be done reasonably.
Almroth, Carle, Blanchard, Molinari, Bour
Link to the research publication
Unfortunately I can’t seem to find it now, but there was a great (short) video showing how the Italians serve espresso in their cafes, it took maybe two minutes from ordering to the last sip, and it was all done in a standard porcelain espresso mug.
Generally that's how it is in most of Europe unless you get something to go.
That works for espresso as there's it's just coffee. There's so little water used that it cools very rapidly, you can't really take espresso to go as it would be cold by the time you got there. Milk drinks take a lot longer to make and drink, there's no way up get through a milk drink in that small a time frame.
Regardless, the major reason for the to go lifestyle in America is because of cars. Parking and going in take considerably more time and a lot more space that drive through. In more walkable areas in America, you can get this same experience of coffee in a porcelain cup. But a coffee shop will only support that if they have a lot of foot traffic and no drive through.
I don’t think cars have anything to do with it. It’s just a question if you’re there to chill or you have somewhere to be. There’s people sitting down in cafe in suburban areas in the US as well, and no lack of people in NYC strolling towards their next destination with a paper cup.
PLA is not quite as biodegradable as it is often made to seem.
Getting rid of PLA involves shredding it and putting them in an extremely rare and expensive commercial heated composting machine. This of course means it requires energy to heat it. These factors mean that it’s fairly expensive to do this, so it rarely gets done if ever.
In the meanwhile, the heat used to form the plastic in the first place is often enough to make it degrade enough to make it bad for reuse, which means that it doesn’t get recycled either.
In my opinion plastic was one of the biggest mistakes developing societies ever made. Even the supposed benefits of plastic have led to worse overall outcomes. We've become completely dependent on the ability to cheaply seal products in this strong and toxic material. It has completely snuffed out other approaches to food packaging and delivery; leaving us in this spot where we're looking for alternatives that have to meet all the requirements of plastic while also being safe. Which is essentially impossible because at that point we're just asking for plastic but ya'know, safe.
Single use plastics, sure, but plastic has revolutionlizard the medical industry, transportation, spaceflight, research, information technology, and literally every single other industry that exists.
When plastics are used for its beneficial properties, which few, if any other substances can match, it’s an amazing material that’s been an incredible boon for humanity. It’s just when it’s used for the fact that it’s so cheap that it starts becoming a problem, because those use cases are usually disposable, and a disposable material that doesn’t easily degrade and is potentially toxic is an environmental disaster.
The fact that plastic is just so damn inexpensive is counterintuitively the major issue with it. We use plenty of non biodegradable, potentially harmful materials that haven’t become a major issue because they’re somewhat more expensive, so companies don’t put them in literally everything they produce.
Sure, I think I can agree with that. I'm just curious what alternatives those industries might have found if it weren't for the existence of plastic.
"Bioplastics contain at least as many chemicals as conventional plastic" This quote cracks me up.
FFS. We're so doomed.