Time to share my "worked at a recycling facility" story: Show up to shift. Conveyer belt after the first pass, which was removing all the ferrous metal via magnet. Ordered to grab any non-ferrous...
Time to share my "worked at a recycling facility" story:
Show up to shift. Conveyer belt after the first pass, which was removing all the ferrous metal via magnet.
Ordered to grab any non-ferrous metal, and the rest went into the landfill.
This was in the 90's. There's a reason single-stream recycling became a thing, it's because it increased recycling rate for the only thing that genuinely matters: Metal.
Turns out you can often find a scrap yard near you that will pay by the lb for metals at market rates. That's why you'll find a beatup pickup truck cruising around yanking metals into the back on trash nights.
Glass is fantastic because it can be collected, washed, and reused in a way that neither metal or plastic can be. I think all beverages should only be allowed to be sold in glass, with a proper bottle buyback/reuse program.
Not just beverages! Think of how much plastic we could avoid if our cleaning supplies and pre-made foods came in glass containers that could be returned to the store and reused? It would require...
I think all beverages should only be allowed to be sold in glass, with a proper bottle buyback/reuse program.
Not just beverages! Think of how much plastic we could avoid if our cleaning supplies and pre-made foods came in glass containers that could be returned to the store and reused? It would require additional sanitation capabilities on the premises, and it would increase the weight of groceries which people would balk at, but I think those are fairly small sacrifices to make. Also being able to put your produce in a glass container instead of a plastic bag would make it heavier, but it would also make it easier to make sure the produce isn't bruised on the walk home or to the car, so it's not all downsides for convenience.
A personal wood or metal basket would probabaly work better for produce. Premade supplies and cleaners though 100%. I'd expect the retail stores to just do pickup, and they get shipped to a proper...
A personal wood or metal basket would probabaly work better for produce.
Premade supplies and cleaners though 100%. I'd expect the retail stores to just do pickup, and they get shipped to a proper processing facility for redistribution to manufacturers.
That would work too. The downsides for wood or metal are that produce tends to have a lot of moisture and if your tomato does get squished or your lettuce is a bit drippy, it can rust the metal or...
That would work too. The downsides for wood or metal are that produce tends to have a lot of moisture and if your tomato does get squished or your lettuce is a bit drippy, it can rust the metal or warp the wood. They would be a lot lighter than glass, though.
The downside of a processing facility is the emissions for transport. Probably necessary for things like cleansers which can be dangerous if mixed improperly, but for something that can be easily cleaned with soap and water it might be better not to ship it around. I'm thinking things like the deli potato salad coming in something more like a big jelly jar than a plastic container.
The upside, though is that you wouldn't need a separate larger container for transport to the store, then the labor to be parceled out into the smaller containers at the store. The cleaning could be done at the same facility where the packages are refilled. That might be worth the emissions once things like the changing store footprint are taken into account.
Re. beverage containers, I recalled that some lifecycle analyses disagree that glass should be used widely. This wasn't easy to find -- I'm definitely cherry picking -- but this lifecycle...
Re. beverage containers, I recalled that some lifecycle analyses disagree that glass should be used widely. This wasn't easy to find -- I'm definitely cherry picking -- but this lifecycle assessment (Stefanini et. al, 2020) figures that in at least one case (pasteurized milk bottles), PET containers can beat out glass containers on several environmental indicators.
I guess the idea is, if we're going to push for sweeping changes, we should fund research into what their impacts are ahead of time. This is probably a stretch, but an example of this in practice could've been public backlash against nuclear power generation in the 70s vs. coal, gas, etc.
Unanswered questions:
what if we had decent systems for refilling our own, reused bottles?
does this generalize to other beverage containers?
is energy use a major concern if recycling facilities can be colocated with green energy sources? (e.g. the infamous Texan windmills that mine bitcoins, or excess solar capacity)
It's certainly possible to refill already in certain contexts. You can fill a reusable glass growler at a brewery. Nothing stopping you from filling a glass/aluminum water bottle on your own. I...
It's certainly possible to refill already in certain contexts. You can fill a reusable glass growler at a brewery. Nothing stopping you from filling a glass/aluminum water bottle on your own. I suppose if you're willing to pay a price premium and face some dirty looks you could fill a growler from a soda fountain.
Most everything short of milk and water can be still be bought at retail in glass bottles now anybow..teas, sodas, beers, liqours. That tells me the lifecycle isn't that bad. Especially if there were proper bottle/can buyback systems in place. And if plastic were banned, aluminum and glass could scale up relatively quickly.
Especially in this case, part of it is more about eliminating waste than just raw energy. It's probably worth an extra 50% energy to stop polluting the planet with plastic. Glass will at least somewhat gracefully degrade back to sand.
I do hate the 'rely on green energy to save us from energy inefficiencies,' but in this case I'd say it'd be worth...especially if we can shutdown the bitcoin miners in the process.
Whenever I threw out plastic (of who knows which polymer, probably not even PET, which is the best for recycling AFAIK) my mom would complain that I didn’t care about the earth. I always recycled...
Whenever I threw out plastic (of who knows which polymer, probably not even PET, which is the best for recycling AFAIK) my mom would complain that I didn’t care about the earth. I always recycled metal and glass, but was red-pilled at 13 about the wasted effort on plastics.
Around the time the plastics industry launched its recycling campaign, the head of a trade group called the Vinyl Institute acknowledged at a 1989 conference that "recycling cannot go on indefinitely, and does not solve the solid waste problem."
The idea that recycling can solve the problem of plastic waste "has always been a fraud, and it's always been a way for the industry to sell more plastic," says Richard Wiles, president of the Center for Climate Integrity
The economics of plastic recycling "haven't changed at all. Not at all. And if virgin [plastic] was always cheaper and of higher quality, that's still the case today," says Wiles of the Center for Climate Integrity.
He says the plastics industry continues to mislead the public and needs to be held responsible for it.
Here's a video from Climate Town on this topic. I believe it was the first one I saw from the channel and what turned me into a fan. Apparently his style of humor doesn't resonate with everyone,...
Here's a video from Climate Town on this topic. I believe it was the first one I saw from the channel and what turned me into a fan. Apparently his style of humor doesn't resonate with everyone, but Climate Town videos (and newsletters) (and the Climate Denier's Playbook podcast from the same guy) are incredibly well researched (dude has a master's in Climate Science) and (IMO) funny (host is a comedian and a writer/co-host of the podcast writes for the Daily Show).
I thought this was an article from a few years ago, but it’s not. Glad to see the issue is still getting coverage. The one I was thinking of is Recycling plastic is practically impossible – and...
I thought this was an article from a few years ago, but it’s not. Glad to see the issue is still getting coverage.
Greenpeace found a couple facilities are trying to reprocess cups and containers — sometimes called "number 5s" because of the markings on the containers. But the numbers are low. While 52% of recycling facilities in the U.S. accept that kind of plastic, the report found less than 5% of it is actually repurposed — and the rest is put into a landfill.
Similarly, the National Association for PET Container Resources, an industry trade group, found in 2017 that only 21 percent of the plastic bottles collected for recycling were turned into new things.
Time to share my "worked at a recycling facility" story:
Show up to shift. Conveyer belt after the first pass, which was removing all the ferrous metal via magnet.
Ordered to grab any non-ferrous metal, and the rest went into the landfill.
This was in the 90's. There's a reason single-stream recycling became a thing, it's because it increased recycling rate for the only thing that genuinely matters: Metal.
Turns out you can often find a scrap yard near you that will pay by the lb for metals at market rates. That's why you'll find a beatup pickup truck cruising around yanking metals into the back on trash nights.
Glass is fantastic because it can be collected, washed, and reused in a way that neither metal or plastic can be. I think all beverages should only be allowed to be sold in glass, with a proper bottle buyback/reuse program.
Not just beverages! Think of how much plastic we could avoid if our cleaning supplies and pre-made foods came in glass containers that could be returned to the store and reused? It would require additional sanitation capabilities on the premises, and it would increase the weight of groceries which people would balk at, but I think those are fairly small sacrifices to make. Also being able to put your produce in a glass container instead of a plastic bag would make it heavier, but it would also make it easier to make sure the produce isn't bruised on the walk home or to the car, so it's not all downsides for convenience.
A personal wood or metal basket would probabaly work better for produce.
Premade supplies and cleaners though 100%. I'd expect the retail stores to just do pickup, and they get shipped to a proper processing facility for redistribution to manufacturers.
That would work too. The downsides for wood or metal are that produce tends to have a lot of moisture and if your tomato does get squished or your lettuce is a bit drippy, it can rust the metal or warp the wood. They would be a lot lighter than glass, though.
The downside of a processing facility is the emissions for transport. Probably necessary for things like cleansers which can be dangerous if mixed improperly, but for something that can be easily cleaned with soap and water it might be better not to ship it around. I'm thinking things like the deli potato salad coming in something more like a big jelly jar than a plastic container.
The upside, though is that you wouldn't need a separate larger container for transport to the store, then the labor to be parceled out into the smaller containers at the store. The cleaning could be done at the same facility where the packages are refilled. That might be worth the emissions once things like the changing store footprint are taken into account.
Re. beverage containers, I recalled that some lifecycle analyses disagree that glass should be used widely. This wasn't easy to find -- I'm definitely cherry picking -- but this lifecycle assessment (Stefanini et. al, 2020) figures that in at least one case (pasteurized milk bottles), PET containers can beat out glass containers on several environmental indicators.
I guess the idea is, if we're going to push for sweeping changes, we should fund research into what their impacts are ahead of time. This is probably a stretch, but an example of this in practice could've been public backlash against nuclear power generation in the 70s vs. coal, gas, etc.
Unanswered questions:
It's certainly possible to refill already in certain contexts. You can fill a reusable glass growler at a brewery. Nothing stopping you from filling a glass/aluminum water bottle on your own. I suppose if you're willing to pay a price premium and face some dirty looks you could fill a growler from a soda fountain.
Most everything short of milk and water can be still be bought at retail in glass bottles now anybow..teas, sodas, beers, liqours. That tells me the lifecycle isn't that bad. Especially if there were proper bottle/can buyback systems in place. And if plastic were banned, aluminum and glass could scale up relatively quickly.
Especially in this case, part of it is more about eliminating waste than just raw energy. It's probably worth an extra 50% energy to stop polluting the planet with plastic. Glass will at least somewhat gracefully degrade back to sand.
I do hate the 'rely on green energy to save us from energy inefficiencies,' but in this case I'd say it'd be worth...especially if we can shutdown the bitcoin miners in the process.
Whenever I threw out plastic (of who knows which polymer, probably not even PET, which is the best for recycling AFAIK) my mom would complain that I didn’t care about the earth. I always recycled metal and glass, but was red-pilled at 13 about the wasted effort on plastics.
A few excerpts:
Here's a video from Climate Town on this topic. I believe it was the first one I saw from the channel and what turned me into a fan. Apparently his style of humor doesn't resonate with everyone, but Climate Town videos (and newsletters) (and the Climate Denier's Playbook podcast from the same guy) are incredibly well researched (dude has a master's in Climate Science) and (IMO) funny (host is a comedian and a writer/co-host of the podcast writes for the Daily Show).
https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g?si=_MrXoHStYNHQqpZk
I thought this was an article from a few years ago, but it’s not. Glad to see the issue is still getting coverage.
The one I was thinking of is Recycling plastic is practically impossible – and the problem is getting worse by NPR in 2022.