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Tabletop Weekly Discussion #1 - Chain Suggestions
I'd love to see a recurring thread here in ~games.tabletop where we can talk about board games in a fun way. Here's my hook for this thread:
List one boardgame that you like, and we will suggest a boardgame that you may also like based on your one selection. Ideally, there will be an explanation for "why" as well.
Edit: I also encourage other people to post suggestions!
Root
I've not played Root, but after looking at it online for a bit I'm struck by what a delightfully constructed game it seems to be. All the images just make it seem rich and beautifully constructed, and the story sounds good. I'm half-inclined to suggest Anachrony, as I did above - delightful construction, mostly intuitive board states, asymmetric player abilities, and a completely different but still very strong underlying storyline.
But I don't want to just say the same thing twice! Instead, I'm going to suggest Smallworld, which is a cute game that seems like it might be simpler than Root. Each player has the option of choosing a fantastical race with a random power and taking over Smallworld, but Smallworld is small and there's not enough room for everyone, so it leads to a Risk-like conflict, but unlike Risk, there's not a lot of chance involved. You only get one roll of the die per turn (your last attack) so mostly it's a "size of the armies" situation, where luck isn't involved. Lots of replay value due to how the races are constructed (special power tile + race tile means no two games are the same), and it's something that even younger players can get into - my younger daughter is 8 and has won, and it's not just because of the bullshit that is Spirit Trolls. That does bring up one drawback: because of how the tiles are randomly put together and how asymmetric it is, sometimes a player can get a race / power combination that is just stupidly powerful and they're hard to deal with.
Splendor
It's a really well-known game so I suspect you've probably already played it, but 7 Wonders is very good (or 7 Wonders Duel if you're mostly playing with 2 people). Sushi Go! and Sushi Go Party! are also great (but again, pretty well-known).
I haven't played it myself so I can't vouch for it personally, but I've definitely seen a lot of people recommend Saint Petersburg as a game similar to Splendor.
I have played the well-knowns above (but still great recommendations, thanks) but haven't played Saint Petersburg. It looks pretty interesting and I might give it a go!
I like your card-based followup recommendations; I think the card drafting is a nice counterpoint to the engine building that Splendor does, and all of them are kind of on the same "level" but can be expanded upon.
Saint Petersburg is one of my and my wife's absolute favourites, so I can definitely recommend it. I love the artwork (we have the first edition) and the game works brilliantly with 2, 3 or 4 players. The expansion is worth getting, too. Although the game is not that complex or deep, there are still multiple strategies to pursue, and your opponents' actions do have an effect on you, without the game being all that confrontational. The deck also brings a nice level of the luck element into the game.
I have never played Splendor though, so I can't say how similar they are.
Splendor is the entire opposite end of the spectrum from RoR. ;)
It's a delightful little game that you can play in 15 minutes or so; basically there are tiles available for purchase; the cost of the tiles can be paid by using up a coin, or by simply having a tile that provides the particular colour. For example, if you had 2 white and 2 red tiles, you could take a tile that costs 2 white and 2 red for free. You build a little engine that ends up sustaining itself. Tiles also can have point values on them; game ends at the end of the turn where the first person gets to 15.
There's really not much more to it than that; interaction is minimal and mostly involves taking tiles before other people.
St Petersburg's card purchasing and engine building mechanism is very similar to what you describe. So you might well like it, if you are looking for something similar. I just hope it's not too similar!
Oh, and don't think that it's just RoR that I play, day in day out. I actually get to play games of its calibre very rarely. But I'm also perfectly happy with a couple of rounds of Love Letter, a night of Tichu, or a PitchCar championship, for instance. A good game is a good game. Currently, my wife and I are alternating between Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective and Ohanami.
Ha, I 100% get it. I just thought it was fun that we suggested things that are in almost all ways polar opposites of each other. I totally agree - a good game is a good game.
I haven't played Ohanami (I don't think I've even heard of it) - it looks pretty interesting. I think I'll add that to my list as well.
Have you seen "The Mind"? It's not really similar to any of these, other than that it's another card based game that's beautifully made. It has 100 numbered cards; each round you deal out a small amount of cards to each player (3 in round 1, 4 in round 2, etc). Then as a group, you have to play the cards in order from lowest to highest. The catch is that you cannot communicate. There's not a lot of strategy (the game is better if you don't discuss methodologies to start with) but it ends up with a lot of laughs and it's short and really easy to get into.
To be honest, Ohanami is not a very good game. The only reason why we have been playing it so much is because we got stuck with it on a holiday a while ago, having brought no other simple games with us. It's an ok filler game I suppose, but there are better drafting games out there, better set building games, and the Japanese garden theme is very much an afterthought, although the cards are pretty. We ended up making some house rules to make it more interesting.
No, never, but I have played similar games. Sounds like fun!
I've taken Ohanami off the list then; thanks for the followup!
The Mind is a bit silly (not in a bad way) and I've found it's a love-it-or-hate-it sort of game; my oldest daughter refuses to play it, so we have actually stopped, but the rest of us enjoy it quite a bit.
Republic of Rome
Wow, that's a hard one to come up with a suggestion for, because everything else feels like a bit of a step down.
I'm going to suggest Eclipse - it's a big, busy game with complex board states and lots of social interactions, but it's at the opposite spectrum for themes. Tons of fun, more board building, perhaps a bit faster (don't get to say that much about Eclipse).
Yeah, I admit that this was a bit of a curve ball. But it was made with the faint hope that someone could surprise me with a game that I have never considered.
It's interesting that you would pick Eclipse. I'm actually not a big fan of the game at all. It incorporates all the needlessly fiddly elements that I really don't like to have in space strategy games, but which for some reason exist in most of them. It also feels a bit cold and mechanical to me, lacking in soul or meaningful interaction. Nonetheless, I know it's very popular, and clearly not a bad game, just not for me. As it happens, I've also seen test prints of the upcoming new edition and it looks lovely and they seem to have streamlined things here and there, so I'm looking forward to giving the game a new try at some point. I would love to finally find a space strategy game that I actually like.
My favourite aspect of Republic of Rome is the way it combines its co-op and back stabbing elements so cleverly and organically. The fact that the players are all trying so hard and so publicly to work together to keep the republic up and alive, while each individual is also constantly manoeuvring behind the scenes to cause Rome's downfall and make it happen at just the right moment for them to seize power alone. Although many co-op games have traitor mechanisms, I have found nothing like RoR as a gaming experience.
But I have read good things about games by the independent designer Rick Heli. Founding Fathers (there are at least two games with that title, Heli's is the less known) was apparently quite directly modelled after RoR, setting it in early American independence, while Athens: The Birth of Politics also builds on its systems with yet another historical era. Alas, getting a copy to Europe is so costly and my chances of finding people to play with so low that it just hasn't made sense for me to order either. Yet.
That's a fair assessment overall regarding Eclipse. I didn't want to just suggest a different civ-like, which is why I went in a different direction.
I also love games with traitor mechanics, but as I said, I can't really think of anything in the same oeuvre that isn't just a step down.
With respect to fiddly space games, but with soul, have you tried Anachrony? It's a beautifully made game with a wonderful story (perhaps my favourite story in any boardgame). It's a worker placement game with no betrayal mechanic at all (so it doesn't really follow from RoR), but if you like the idea of a space adventure that's a little more interesting, then I really enjoy that one. Again, I'll stress that it's not actually really like RoR in any way, but it's a ton of fun.
I was not at all aware of Anachrony's existence. Its looks may not be quite my thing (so, so, fiddly, based on the BGG images), but you definitely make it sound interesting! I love games with good stories, and with good mechanics to tell those stories. I have added the game to my future purchases list. Thanks!
My experience with Anachrony is that the first time you play it it seems really fiddly as you're getting set up, but I (and the others I play with) found it really intuitive; things aren't fiddly just to be fiddly, they're fiddly because the approach makes sense. We've found that we rarely forget how things work, despite the fact that there's dozens of different little "fiddles" but they're all sensible and work how you feel like they should work.
Plus the concept (a meteor hit the earth in the future so hard that it exploded in the past and destroyed everything, started the possibility of time loops, and now it's almost time that the asteroid is actually going to hit the earth and you have to deal with it) is so cool. Every time we play, we read out the page from the rulebook explaining the story and it really sets the mood. It's insanely important to have a good storage system though, because getting things out and putting things away is time consuming. Also the idea that you can borrow from your future turns, but you have to actually spend those resources on future turns or there are punishments is one that I just love.
Seeing how you describe what you like in RoR in a comment below, I think you may like New Angeles.
You are a member of a comity of megacorporation ruling over New Angeles. The city has a special status giving them free rein as long as the needs of the city are fulfilled. Otherwise, the government might end its experiment, and you don't want to give back your powers. You want the city to be happy, but you NEED to have economic supremacy over one of your rivals. Unless you actually want the federal government to get involved, or your situation is so catastrophic that you threaten the entire board to plunge the city into chaos if they don't bail you out !
That sounds pretty interesting, thanks for the recommendation!
Okay, so mine is a bit of a weird one, since it's not really a tabletop boardgame, but a PC game with tabletop-like elements instead. I hope that's okay @aphoenix, but if not lemme know and I will delete this comment.
Does anyone know of anything similar to Hand of Fate/HoF2, on PC or tabletop? The reason I ask is because the developer behind the series recently closed down, so no more HoF games will likely be made and that seriously bums me out.
Now, obviously the action-RPG combat cannot ever really be replicated on tabletop, but that was my least favorite part of the game anyways, and what I loved most was the RPG-items deck-building, exploration, questing and story aspects of the game, which should translate well to tabletop... so I am curious if anyone knows any actual tabletop games similar to it in that regard.
p.s. The closest tabletop game I know of to HoF is Talisman, and I already have that, all of the expansions and play it reasonably often (in person and on PC). So I guess if anyone knows of something a bit like Talisman but with a bit more HoF flair to it, that would be amazing! :P
Disclaimer : Unless mentioned otherwise, I haven't played those games. I just spend too much time reading about games.
Did you know there was a boardgame adaptation : Hand of Fate : Ordeals ?
I second the recommendation of Mage Knight. It has the best "go on an epic adventure" feel of any game I've played. It's not really HoF, but neither is Talisman so it may still work.
Runebound is another "go on adventures" games that's less daunting than Mage Knight.
Pathfinder : Adventure Card Game. I disliked the first edition, but apparently the second is improved.
Heroes of Terrinoth (or the older Warhammer Quest) should fit the bill.
I really enjoy playing Aeon's End and would say it's the best deckbuilder I know but there are less quests and exploration involved.
I heard good things of Thunderstone Quest but don't know how it fits.
Arkham Horror : The Card Game is not fantasy, costs a lot and is more narrative than many of the others games I cited but it's a great game that I love.
I did not! But I will absolutely be checking that out now. Thanks... and thanks for all the other recommendations too!
I don't know that it's that similar to HoF overall, but Mage Knight is a hell of a game. It's basically Heroes of Might and Magic: the board game.
It's ridiculously complex and takes a very long time to play—like, "set aside your entire day" level—but it's excellent. Vlaada Chvatil is probably my favorite game designer, and he pretty much went all-out on this game.
HoMM is one of my absolute fav series, and one that I still go back and revisit every few years; HoMM3 being the pinnacle of it IMO, which I have purchased multiple times on multiple platforms, even iOS (although it eventually got pretty broken and IIRC is not even available on the app store anymore)... So that tabletop game sounds intriguing regardless of its lack of similarity to HoF. And Mage Knight is apparently even available on tabletop simulator too, so I will def be seeing about getting a group together and giving it a try. Thanks for the recommendation!
Mage Knight is the absolute best game ever (though it's a bit of a beast to learn) and I really think you'd like it, but I want to do a warning:
We usually start at like 11am with 4 or 5 players, and set up some kind of crock-pot situation for dinner and play until about 9 or 10 pm. That seems like a looong day to be on tabletop simulator! :)
You may be the first person I've heard recommending (indirectly) or at least not strongly discouraging Mage Knight with more than 2 players. I'm almost jealous of your group.
Are you all experienced gamers ?
Anyway, I strongly advise anyone interested in Mage Knight to play a solo game first.
oh! really, I find that surprising - I don't really know anyone else who ever plays mage knight that isn't inviting me, so I wasn't aware people didn't like it at higher player counts!
I guess we're all fairly experienced, but I would guess it's more than we're all kind of settled into it being the activity for the day, so even if it's really long it's not aggravating. We tend to plan out our turns while other people do theirs, and we speak everything aloud so that you can be engaged in everyone's character's storylines/activities. And we always play cooperative so that everyone is inclined to help each other and see where their strengths are!
I saw that it had solo rules, but didn't really think much of it at the time. Is the solo play actually good?
I never had the opportunity to play Mage Knight with anyone so all my games were solo. I found them all very satisfying.
But the game really feels like a dense version of Heroes of Might and Magic like someone said earlier, it's something to keep in mind if you really want the Hand of Fate experience.
Maybe Slay the Spire has some of the same elements? I'm mostly going by the trailers for HoF, because I haven't played them. If the deckbuilding is what you enjoy, then that might fill that void. I've also been enjoying Slay the Spire a lot so maybe I'm just into recommending it right now (also, it's in Humble's monthly bundle right now).
I don't have a good tabletop recommendation that's publicly available, unfortunately. My brother did a homebrew DnD / Magic mashup that blends DnD storytelling, but the combat is replaced with Magic. That's maybe the closest thing I could think of, and I could see if I could share his game building notes at some point.
I have played Slay the Spire a bit, but was actually not a huge fan of it despite it being the perfect game for me on paper (roguelike+deckbuilding). To paraphrase from a convo I had on Discord about it:
I have actually been enjoying Dicey Dungeons so far more than Slay the Spire... though neither really has that heavy story/questing element of HoF that I miss so much. :(
That D&D/M:TG mashup sounds pretty rad though, as both game systems are very near the top of my all-time favorites list... I literally just finished a D&D session on roll20 a few min ago! So if you ever decide to share your brother's game notes please ping me, as I would greatly appreciate seeing them and giving that homebrew system a try. :)
The thing that you dislike about Slay the Spire is one that I actually love, which is that it's not always a good idea to take the card when you have the opportunity to do so. Once I stopped auto-including cards if they weren't right, I enjoyed it more.
I will talk to my brother about sharing his game notes (and try to convince him to try out Tildes again). He's shared notes before, and we've played ten or so sessions over the last few years (having transitioned more into pure D&D), and every time we've done it, it's been a riot - things mostly play out as one-offs that last 5 or 6 hours, and it's great fun even for people that don't really know what they're doing with Magic or D&D. He even did one session that used planechase cards (which was the weakest session, but still enjoyable).
Betrayal Legacy
An easy pivot from Betryal Legacy is to any of the other "Legacy" games - if the hook that you enjoy is recurring the same game with previous games choices lingering over you, then any of the other ones could be a worthwhile pickup. I'm especially fond of Pandemic: Legacy, which is thematically quite different, but could be a nice followup to Betrayal.
Thanks! I didn't personally love the original Pandemic, but one of my friends that I played Betrayal Legacy with grabbed Pandemic Legacy recently and has been really enjoying it. Knowing that Rob Daviau was involved definitely makes me interested.
I've also been eyeing Risk: Legacy, but it is hard to get people to commit to playing Risk on a regular basis at my age. The games are just so long...
One of the advantages of Risk Legacy is that games are a lot quicker than in Risk. BoardGameGeek claims 60 minutes for Risk Legacy, which sounds about right from my experience.
Would you say the games are shorter or longer than Risk 2210? That's probably the gold standard for Risk game length for me, so far. Especially if you hand out territories at random instead of drafting them.
I've only played 2210 a couple of times, more than a decade ago, so I can't recall how long those games were, sorry. Hopefully someone else have more to add.
No worries, thanks for your replies in this thread. I do love a game of Risk, so I may have to bump Risk Legacy to the top of the wishlist.
Risk Legacy games are quite short. It's been years since I played it now so I can't really remember the details, but there are some different rules or win conditions that make them end quite a bit faster. I don't enjoy Risk (including 2210), but I had a lot of fun with Risk Legacy.
That sounds like it might actually work pretty well for me, then. I guess once I've finished the Gloomhaven campaign (in a year or two at the pace we're going) I'll have to give Risk Legacy another look!
We've played a lot of boardgames over the years at our house, and when my sons were younger, they were all fun. It turns out though that they were fun for me because I could trounce them or let them win whenever I wanted. As they became older and developed personalities, and ganging up on mom was fun, I stopped enjoying them. I am a salty loser.
Now I am on the hunt for cooperative games. We really enjoy Pandemic and to a lesser degree Codenames, and would love to add some more games to the cooperative genre. Any suggestions?
If you want a more frantic one, I think Escape: The Curse of the Temple is a lot of fun. It's a "real-time" dice-rolling game where there aren't any turns or anything, so everyone's frantically rolling dice as fast as they can and yelling at each other to try to get through everything in time (each round is only about 10 minutes).
I absolutely love frantic and so do my sons. This and Mysterium will be in the house before the holiday season. Thank you!
Mysterium may be one that you enjoy. One player is a ghost, and the rest of the players are mediums; the ghost sends "visions" in the form of cards to the mediums to try to get them to understand who the murderer is. It's a fun game with a fun concept.
In a similar vein, Dixit is pretty good; it's another game where you match pictures to phrases. There are some elements of cooperation, but it still has some competition to it. I've always enjoyed it, even when coming in dead last because of the delight in seeing what my kids pick for different cards, and because you're actually part of the points that other people get as well.
I am totally getting this before the holidays! Thank you for the suggestion!
I've only played Mysterium with 3 players, and I thought the 3-player rules were a bit strange. I imagine the game gets a lot better with 4+ players. The BoardGameGeek community seems to agree.
I've only played with 7!
It's pretty good with 7, I don't actually know the 3 player rules. I should read them and try it before I make these recommendations (or add a stipulation to my recommendation).