In my view this perspective seems a bit forced. It's just a non-issue that some players choose to interact with a game in an unintended way. Especially when the default experience works as...
In my view this perspective seems a bit forced. It's just a non-issue that some players choose to interact with a game in an unintended way. Especially when the default experience works as intended. Yes there are options that could be added to cater to each audience, but the value in that is pretty questionable.
but that's kinda what the video talks about in the end, Mark gives some suggestions on how to cater to each audience without changing the initial design too much. One of his other videos he talks...
but that's kinda what the video talks about in the end, Mark gives some suggestions on how to cater to each audience without changing the initial design too much. One of his other videos he talks about players tending to optimize the fun out of games, which I think is a valuable watch as an addendum to this video.
I think it's pretty funny that the way the designer tried to keep the players from "optimizing the fun out" of xcom resulted in players making mods to let them have their fun back.
I think it's pretty funny that the way the designer tried to keep the players from "optimizing the fun out" of xcom resulted in players making mods to let them have their fun back.
People gravitate towards the path of least resistance, even if that path is less "fun". That is what "optimizing the fun out" really means. I think many people are hard wired to avoid discomfort...
People gravitate towards the path of least resistance, even if that path is less "fun". That is what "optimizing the fun out" really means. I think many people are hard wired to avoid discomfort more readily than to seek out joy, especially when that joy is unpredictable.
In Balatro's case, the fun the developer wants to create is in the suspense of watching your hand play out. Score previews neuter that suspense, removing an entire (and arguably the most important) emotion from the experience.
It's an interesting situation that's not quite an accessibility issue, but it's still an alternate means of playing the game. There is even a similar mechanic where if you hunt around the...
It's an interesting situation that's not quite an accessibility issue, but it's still an alternate means of playing the game. There is even a similar mechanic where if you hunt around the settings, there is an unlock all option that disable achievements on the profile, but will otherwise let you play the game normally. You could even open up another profile and progress normally should you choose to. If they're playing the game wrong and are having fun, is that an issue, even if it messes with the game loop?
No. It's a singleplayer game that people spent money on. They can funitize it in whatever way they want. Design intention has shown time and time again it's really strong by itself, which is why...
If they're playing the game wrong and are having fun, is that an issue, even if it messes with the game loop?
No. It's a singleplayer game that people spent money on. They can funitize it in whatever way they want.
Design intention has shown time and time again it's really strong by itself, which is why enough people probably forgo the calculator websites, but at the core of the problem lies... nothing. People can, should, and will play however they want.
A developer (or in this video often called designer) also doesn't have to accommodate this. If he doesn't intend on people calculating cards then... don't give them the option. At the same time, if it starts impacting the fun people will have it may be prudent to give players that option anyway. Clearly they want something else than just your design intention*. That is, if you care about it monetarily succeeding or having any sort of longevity.
Ultimately, players can interface with something they bought in any way they want as long as it's singleplayer and not affecting others.
*sidenote: I don't think a developer/designer should always give into what the user wants, have you ever read some fan ideas on movies or tv shows? There's a reason writers are paid for the job.
From the top Youtube Comment: There's a game that I'm going to write about more in the 'almost great' thread, Prismata. It's a game that puts all the information out on the table. In theory, there...
From the top Youtube Comment:
This is also a famous problem in board games, typically referred to as "hidden but trackable information." The classic example is Catan, where player's hands are considered secret, even though every player knows exactly what is gained by each player and what cards each player spends, so a player with a pad of paper or a good memory can remember all of it.
There's a game that I'm going to write about more in the 'almost great' thread, Prismata. It's a game that puts all the information out on the table. In theory, there is perfect play for every game. The reality is that the search space is so huge that it's impossible for a human to keep up with it, especially if there's a tight chess clock going. Even the best AI was completely beatable by a well-practiced person.
The game is, sadly, defacto dead. It's one of those games that caters to a very specific niche of competitive multiplayer games. It owes pretty much it's entire existence to a Reddit TIFU post, for those interested in diving into some internet history.
My takeaway from this essay is that developers should consider accommodating different tastes in features, and I'm inclined to agree. It's not really that different than what difficulty settings...
My takeaway from this essay is that developers should consider accommodating different tastes in features, and I'm inclined to agree. It's not really that different than what difficulty settings are for the general audience (as in those without accessibility issues). You need a really tight gameplay design for not to have anything worth tweaking, and roguelikes are kinda inherently wonky. That's probably why some people enjoy them so much.
It's an interesting idea and offering options to customize the game to suit your personal style while still keeping it at its core "fair" is nothing but a good thing and probably will give the game a little longer life.
In my view this perspective seems a bit forced. It's just a non-issue that some players choose to interact with a game in an unintended way. Especially when the default experience works as intended. Yes there are options that could be added to cater to each audience, but the value in that is pretty questionable.
but that's kinda what the video talks about in the end, Mark gives some suggestions on how to cater to each audience without changing the initial design too much. One of his other videos he talks about players tending to optimize the fun out of games, which I think is a valuable watch as an addendum to this video.
Isn’t that just a different way of having fun?
This is the video I'm referencing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L8vAGGitr8
I think it's pretty funny that the way the designer tried to keep the players from "optimizing the fun out" of xcom resulted in players making mods to let them have their fun back.
People gravitate towards the path of least resistance, even if that path is less "fun". That is what "optimizing the fun out" really means. I think many people are hard wired to avoid discomfort more readily than to seek out joy, especially when that joy is unpredictable.
In Balatro's case, the fun the developer wants to create is in the suspense of watching your hand play out. Score previews neuter that suspense, removing an entire (and arguably the most important) emotion from the experience.
I guess I’ve just got this idea in my head that I can’t shake of the fun police shouting “Stop, criminal! You’re not having fun the right way!”
It's an interesting situation that's not quite an accessibility issue, but it's still an alternate means of playing the game. There is even a similar mechanic where if you hunt around the settings, there is an unlock all option that disable achievements on the profile, but will otherwise let you play the game normally. You could even open up another profile and progress normally should you choose to. If they're playing the game wrong and are having fun, is that an issue, even if it messes with the game loop?
No. It's a singleplayer game that people spent money on. They can funitize it in whatever way they want.
Design intention has shown time and time again it's really strong by itself, which is why enough people probably forgo the calculator websites, but at the core of the problem lies... nothing. People can, should, and will play however they want.
A developer (or in this video often called designer) also doesn't have to accommodate this. If he doesn't intend on people calculating cards then... don't give them the option. At the same time, if it starts impacting the fun people will have it may be prudent to give players that option anyway. Clearly they want something else than just your design intention*. That is, if you care about it monetarily succeeding or having any sort of longevity.
Ultimately, players can interface with something they bought in any way they want as long as it's singleplayer and not affecting others.
*sidenote: I don't think a developer/designer should always give into what the user wants, have you ever read some fan ideas on movies or tv shows? There's a reason writers are paid for the job.
From the top Youtube Comment:
There's a game that I'm going to write about more in the 'almost great' thread, Prismata. It's a game that puts all the information out on the table. In theory, there is perfect play for every game. The reality is that the search space is so huge that it's impossible for a human to keep up with it, especially if there's a tight chess clock going. Even the best AI was completely beatable by a well-practiced person.
The game is, sadly, defacto dead. It's one of those games that caters to a very specific niche of competitive multiplayer games. It owes pretty much it's entire existence to a Reddit TIFU post, for those interested in diving into some internet history.
My takeaway from this essay is that developers should consider accommodating different tastes in features, and I'm inclined to agree. It's not really that different than what difficulty settings are for the general audience (as in those without accessibility issues). You need a really tight gameplay design for not to have anything worth tweaking, and roguelikes are kinda inherently wonky. That's probably why some people enjoy them so much.
It's an interesting idea and offering options to customize the game to suit your personal style while still keeping it at its core "fair" is nothing but a good thing and probably will give the game a little longer life.