This Classic+ server was released less than a month ago and was largely viewed as a competitor to Turtle WoW. It was greatly anticipated by the WoW private server community. Their website is...
This Classic+ server was released less than a month ago and was largely viewed as a competitor to Turtle WoW. It was greatly anticipated by the WoW private server community. Their website is already offline, which is why I am forced to share a Reddit link.
I created this post (in addition to this one about Turtle WoW) because this is a very popular project. Perhaps we have some fans and players over here.
Were the private servers built in a clean-room environment using reverse-engineering, or are they based on leaked or copyrighted code? I'm curious to understand what right Blizzard has in taking...
Were the private servers built in a clean-room environment using reverse-engineering, or are they based on leaked or copyrighted code? I'm curious to understand what right Blizzard has in taking these projects down.
Most, if not all, popular WoW private servers distribute Blizzard's assets along with their client from their websites. I am talking about models, images, music, sound effects, textures, etc....
Most, if not all, popular WoW private servers distribute Blizzard's assets along with their client from their websites.
I am talking about models, images, music, sound effects, textures, etc. Everything needed to run the game in a single package. This goes way beyond reverse-engineered code.
Ah, that would definitely be a no-go then. I was expecting that users just updated their hosts file to point at another server, or that some software ran in front which bootstraps the change. So...
Ah, that would definitely be a no-go then. I was expecting that users just updated their hosts file to point at another server, or that some software ran in front which bootstraps the change.
So presumably private servers could exist, but they'd need to be built in a more legal way.
Many private servers operate in a way that is not that much different from Blizzard. Everything is abstracted to the user; you just download and play. EDIT: If Blizzard keeps shutting them down,...
Many private servers operate in a way that is not that much different from Blizzard. Everything is abstracted to the user; you just download and play.
EDIT: If Blizzard keeps shutting them down, I'm sure they'll go back to working as you propose. Which may be a good thing.
That was how they generally worked—you would install retail WoW for a certain expansion, patch it up to a specific version, then edit reamlist.wtf to point to the private server. I remember using...
That was how they generally worked—you would install retail WoW for a certain expansion, patch it up to a specific version, then edit reamlist.wtf to point to the private server. I remember using the regular launcher and having to immediately press Play or it would automatically update to the latest retail patch (apparently I could have just launched Wow.exe directly to bypass this, whoops).
Nowadays all the popular private servers just distribute the entire modified client so that it's entirely click and run, because convenience attracts more players, of course. I do think there are still some old school servers doing it the traditional way, though, they just have a much more limited audience.
Would it be? As far as I understand, they just distribute a client with an updated realms list (essentially the hosts file). The client was freely given away by Blizzard, does hosting it violate...
Would it be? As far as I understand, they just distribute a client with an updated realms list (essentially the hosts file). The client was freely given away by Blizzard, does hosting it violate any laws?
Kind of a moot point though, if you get a letter from Blizzard you don't really have the resources to fight them on it -- either you're somewhere where the legal system can't get to you or you close up shop.
Even if the client is free to download, only Blizzard would have the right to distribute that software and all the assets alongside it. For that reason, it would be better to let people download...
Even if the client is free to download, only Blizzard would have the right to distribute that software and all the assets alongside it. For that reason, it would be better to let people download the regular client from Blizzard, and then patch it to make any necessary changes. This is also how romhacks operate today – by patching an existing rom, rather than distributing copyrighted assets.
It's true that a lawsuit from a large company would make anyone buckle. However, I think the idea is that it's far less likely that they would file a suit if there's no legal basis for doing so. Clean-room reverse engineering is legal, and has a number of historical examples such as Wine, ReactOS, and ScummVM.
At least before Classic came out, I think private servers were dependant on old client versions that I'm not sure Blizzard was still making available, and users who couldn't find the right version...
At least before Classic came out, I think private servers were dependant on old client versions that I'm not sure Blizzard was still making available, and users who couldn't find the right version would have difficulties connecting. Cause I do once remember a time when users were instructed to edit their realmlist instead of having an all-in-one download.
Now that Classic exists maybe you could say an "old" client is now more readily available for users to get from Blizzard and not the Private Server hosts, but I don't know if the modern Classic client realmlist can be altered in the same way, or if classic changes under the hood would make that client not cross-compatible with what the private server infrastructure is expecting the client to do if its built with actual 2000s era clients in mind, etc.
I'm speculating on all of the above, but in short I think getting the exact client version users need without literally giving it to them might actually be not so straightforward, which is probably why private servers aren't going the "get it and patch it yourself" route like with romhack patching.
Vanilla/TBC/WotLK private servers are all built around a couple of open source server cores (or forks thereof) that are built specifically for the 1.12.1, 2.4.3, and 3.3.5 clients. There are cores...
Vanilla/TBC/WotLK private servers are all built around a couple of open source server cores (or forks thereof) that are built specifically for the 1.12.1, 2.4.3, and 3.3.5 clients.
There are cores targeting newer clients (which Classic falls under) but they’re far less mature and more buggy, and porting content from those cores targeting older clients would be nontrivial.
There’s also a fair number of purists and semi-purists in the private server playerbase who play because private servers work with old clients, holding that Classic clients don’t or can’t replicate the experience yielded by the originals.
Also, if you have a physical retail copy of WoW from the early days, it is fair use to run that. The private server software itself is likely not illegal, as it is a seperate software sourcing the...
Also, if you have a physical retail copy of WoW from the early days, it is fair use to run that.
The private server software itself is likely not illegal, as it is a seperate software sourcing the scraped data from different sources (which is probably not illegal given they have yet to get a shutdown).
It's more the sharing the use of the private server which is the problem, as you're now providing a competing service, and not just emulating a core compnent to play your retail copy.
Yea I don't play on (public) private servers but I do run my own server with bots based on CMaNGOS. That to me seems completely legal and unlikely to attract attention.
Yea I don't play on (public) private servers but I do run my own server with bots based on CMaNGOS. That to me seems completely legal and unlikely to attract attention.
They are pretty nice for a complete solo experience. You can log in all your PCs and then summon them to you, so I keep a permanent party of 5 on each account that I do dungeons with, but you can...
They are pretty nice for a complete solo experience. You can log in all your PCs and then summon them to you, so I keep a permanent party of 5 on each account that I do dungeons with, but you can invite/summon random bots as well. The AI is pretty good and very configurable. You can configure/command them on the fly with a UI tool or chat commands. I haven't raided yet, but it seems like it would be do-able, but you'd need a bunch of bot macros setup I imagine.
Not to mention marketing and promotional material using copyrighted images. The websites always use official assets, which is how a lot have gotten zapped in the past
Not to mention marketing and promotional material using copyrighted images. The websites always use official assets, which is how a lot have gotten zapped in the past
They merged with Ascension (a server cluster based in Russia), and it sounds like they're going to continue Epoch, based on since-deleted Discord messages.
They merged with Ascension (a server cluster based in Russia), and it sounds like they're going to continue Epoch, based on since-deleted Discord messages.
Welp, I'm happy that LOTRO is my main MMO. I think I'll steer clear of the WoW pserver scene for a couple of months and then see what's left when I get the WoW bug again.
Welp, I'm happy that LOTRO is my main MMO. I think I'll steer clear of the WoW pserver scene for a couple of months and then see what's left when I get the WoW bug again.
This Classic+ server was released less than a month ago and was largely viewed as a competitor to Turtle WoW. It was greatly anticipated by the WoW private server community. Their website is already offline, which is why I am forced to share a Reddit link.
I created this post (in addition to this one about Turtle WoW) because this is a very popular project. Perhaps we have some fans and players over here.
That is in addition to the takedown of the Everlook private server following request by Blizzard.
Something's gone funky with the link embedded in this sentence, it's bringing me to a r/wowservers submit page.
Okay, this is the correct link: https://old.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/1nb6wl6/everlook_shutdownthanks_for_these_3_years/.
Sorry about that :P
Were the private servers built in a clean-room environment using reverse-engineering, or are they based on leaked or copyrighted code? I'm curious to understand what right Blizzard has in taking these projects down.
Most, if not all, popular WoW private servers distribute Blizzard's assets along with their client from their websites.
I am talking about models, images, music, sound effects, textures, etc. Everything needed to run the game in a single package. This goes way beyond reverse-engineered code.
Ah, that would definitely be a no-go then. I was expecting that users just updated their
hostsfile to point at another server, or that some software ran in front which bootstraps the change.So presumably private servers could exist, but they'd need to be built in a more legal way.
Many private servers operate in a way that is not that much different from Blizzard. Everything is abstracted to the user; you just download and play.
EDIT: If Blizzard keeps shutting them down, I'm sure they'll go back to working as you propose. Which may be a good thing.
That was how they generally worked—you would install retail WoW for a certain expansion, patch it up to a specific version, then edit
reamlist.wtfto point to the private server. I remember using the regular launcher and having to immediately press Play or it would automatically update to the latest retail patch (apparently I could have just launchedWow.exedirectly to bypass this, whoops).Nowadays all the popular private servers just distribute the entire modified client so that it's entirely click and run, because convenience attracts more players, of course. I do think there are still some old school servers doing it the traditional way, though, they just have a much more limited audience.
Would it be? As far as I understand, they just distribute a client with an updated realms list (essentially the hosts file). The client was freely given away by Blizzard, does hosting it violate any laws?
Kind of a moot point though, if you get a letter from Blizzard you don't really have the resources to fight them on it -- either you're somewhere where the legal system can't get to you or you close up shop.
Even if the client is free to download, only Blizzard would have the right to distribute that software and all the assets alongside it. For that reason, it would be better to let people download the regular client from Blizzard, and then patch it to make any necessary changes. This is also how romhacks operate today – by patching an existing rom, rather than distributing copyrighted assets.
It's true that a lawsuit from a large company would make anyone buckle. However, I think the idea is that it's far less likely that they would file a suit if there's no legal basis for doing so. Clean-room reverse engineering is legal, and has a number of historical examples such as Wine, ReactOS, and ScummVM.
At least before Classic came out, I think private servers were dependant on old client versions that I'm not sure Blizzard was still making available, and users who couldn't find the right version would have difficulties connecting. Cause I do once remember a time when users were instructed to edit their realmlist instead of having an all-in-one download.
Now that Classic exists maybe you could say an "old" client is now more readily available for users to get from Blizzard and not the Private Server hosts, but I don't know if the modern Classic client realmlist can be altered in the same way, or if classic changes under the hood would make that client not cross-compatible with what the private server infrastructure is expecting the client to do if its built with actual 2000s era clients in mind, etc.
I'm speculating on all of the above, but in short I think getting the exact client version users need without literally giving it to them might actually be not so straightforward, which is probably why private servers aren't going the "get it and patch it yourself" route like with romhack patching.
Vanilla/TBC/WotLK private servers are all built around a couple of open source server cores (or forks thereof) that are built specifically for the 1.12.1, 2.4.3, and 3.3.5 clients.
There are cores targeting newer clients (which Classic falls under) but they’re far less mature and more buggy, and porting content from those cores targeting older clients would be nontrivial.
There’s also a fair number of purists and semi-purists in the private server playerbase who play because private servers work with old clients, holding that Classic clients don’t or can’t replicate the experience yielded by the originals.
Also, if you have a physical retail copy of WoW from the early days, it is fair use to run that.
The private server software itself is likely not illegal, as it is a seperate software sourcing the scraped data from different sources (which is probably not illegal given they have yet to get a shutdown).
It's more the sharing the use of the private server which is the problem, as you're now providing a competing service, and not just emulating a core compnent to play your retail copy.
Yea I don't play on (public) private servers but I do run my own server with bots based on CMaNGOS. That to me seems completely legal and unlikely to attract attention.
I had been curious about playerbots. Do they really do much besides provide some more NPC filler?
They are pretty nice for a complete solo experience. You can log in all your PCs and then summon them to you, so I keep a permanent party of 5 on each account that I do dungeons with, but you can invite/summon random bots as well. The AI is pretty good and very configurable. You can configure/command them on the fly with a UI tool or chat commands. I haven't raided yet, but it seems like it would be do-able, but you'd need a bunch of bot macros setup I imagine.
Thanks for providing the details. Pretty much what I was looking to say except I'm just not as well informed as you. Thanks again for sharing!!
Not to mention marketing and promotional material using copyrighted images. The websites always use official assets, which is how a lot have gotten zapped in the past
Ascension WoW may continue to run Epoch. I cannot confirm that as of now.
They merged with Ascension (a server cluster based in Russia), and it sounds like they're going to continue Epoch, based on since-deleted Discord messages.
Welp, I'm happy that LOTRO is my main MMO. I think I'll steer clear of the WoW pserver scene for a couple of months and then see what's left when I get the WoW bug again.