My position on the Epic store is basically driven by Occam's razor: is it likely that a company throwing vast amounts of money at forming a short-term monopoly will act in the best interests of...
My position on the Epic store is basically driven by Occam's razor: is it likely that a company throwing vast amounts of money at forming a short-term monopoly will act in the best interests of the consumer in the long term?
I doubt that "squeeze out competition and then raise prices" will show up on the roadmap, but history suggests that's the likely outcome here.
Real competition would be separating the digital distribution services from game development/publishing. The real problem is how much games licenses are tied to these services.
Real competition would be separating the digital distribution services from game development/publishing. The real problem is how much games licenses are tied to these services.
The Epic Store really only has "lower prices" if the games are sold elsewhere. Imagine how much more excited people would be about EGS if Metro launched at $50 on it while still being available...
The Epic Store really only has "lower prices" if the games are sold elsewhere. Imagine how much more excited people would be about EGS if Metro launched at $50 on it while still being available for $60 on Steam.
I would advise any and all potential customers of epic to be very cautious and take this roadmap with a grain of salt. They are heavily in bed with tencent, regardless of if epic gives them data...
I would advise any and all potential customers of epic to be very cautious and take this roadmap with a grain of salt. They are heavily in bed with tencent, regardless of if epic gives them data or takes order from tencent, everyone should understand one simple fact, not gathering 85 million user's behaviors and account activity as well as metadata is simply leaving millions of dollars on the table. Now ask yourself, if you were in their position and wanted to start a store and save face from shady business practices, would you find a way to give that data up without simply handing it over so you can say you don't give tencent access to your customer data? If it means millions of dollars in easy revenue, you bet I would. What makes you think epic is any different?
Obviously I don't want to be tracked online by a Chinese conglomerate or an authoritarian regime, but with posts like yours here and elsewhere, I'm having trouble understanding the immense level...
Obviously I don't want to be tracked online by a Chinese conglomerate or an authoritarian regime, but with posts like yours here and elsewhere, I'm having trouble understanding the immense level of paranoia. What's "worst case" here? Is the fear that Epic Games Launcher becomes a rootkit that tracks ALL activity on my computer? Or simply that China/Tencent will know what games I play? Not dismissing your concern; I'm genuinely trying to understand.
Epic's store has already been caught reading data from the Steam folder, information about your friends and recently played games. They created an encrypted file on your hard drive of it and...
Epic's store has already been caught reading data from the Steam folder, information about your friends and recently played games. They created an encrypted file on your hard drive of it and claimed they only send it to their servers if you wish to import your Steam friends, but they always create the file, doesn't matter if you choose to do so. Completely ignoring the fact that Steam has APIs made exactly for this purpose, which you should use instead of snooping through the PC of the user. So there already is evidence of Epic going through your files.
The problem being we simply don't know what tencent is doing with our data, and the fact is epic is using other launchers to steal our private information for their gain. This is absolutely not...
The problem being we simply don't know what tencent is doing with our data, and the fact is epic is using other launchers to steal our private information for their gain. This is absolutely not something we as consumers should just be okay with, it's essentially someone spying at you through your home window and seeing what products you use everyday then knowing that, turn around and buy up all the products in your area and sell them to you at enormous overhead for profit. It's not okay to steal a movie, or music, or a TV show, or shoplift from a supermarket, so why in the world is it okay for them to steal my personal information without my consent and use that information in ways they don't disclose?
I'll give it a try. 1: Data Security When creating an Epic account, they don't even manage to send out confirmation email reliably.. Which means that there's a good number of Epic accounts out...
I'll give it a try.
1: Data Security
When creating an Epic account, they don't even manage to send out confirmation email reliably.. Which means that there's a good number of Epic accounts out there vulnerable to hijacking. All you need is their email. A company which doesn't manage to have something so basic working well doesn't get any of my other, more sensitive data like credit card numbers. In the fairly short time they've had an internet presence, their forums and account systems have suffered at least 3 major data breaches (2016, 2018 and more recently in January 2019). For me personally this is reason enough to not give them any of my personal data ever, or at the very least until I see significant change.
2: Exclusives
This is the major sticking point for some people, and another reason for me to not want to support them. I dislike exclusives in the console world already. Arbitrarily making me use a clearly inferior store (see point 1, 3) because Epic decided to throw some Fortnite cash at publishers makes me dislike the company immensely, as they aren't interested in competing by creating a viable product, but by forcing consumers to flock to their store because they don't have any other choice.
Adding to this, Epic (and the publishers, by an extent) are clearly willing to advertise their products on Steam and later pulling them for exclusivity (such as with Metro: Exodus), where the time frame was extremely short.
3: An inferior store
The Epic Store itself is extremely barebones and has a fraction of the features that Steam has. This is to be expected, as they haven't been a player in this business for as long as Valve has, but considering the money they are making and clearly willing to throw at publishers to build a consumer base, they could've invested that money into actually building a viable product. There are no forums, which has lead to hilarious occasions where Epic users turn to the Steam forums for support.. Another example. It also has no achievements. The support is garbage. And so on and so forth. Steam, Origin, Humble Bundle, even Uplay are all much better storefronts.
I could probably add more to this list if I sat on it longer, but that's all I have for now. The exclusivity is obviously what stings the most, because I wouldn't have to bother with the store at all and could simply ignore it, but this way Epic is forcing me to be vocal about these things.
EDIT: Also, the Epic CEO is a dick and a hypocrite, who has previously spoken out against exclusivity when he was attacking Microsoft for it. He's another reason I dislike the company.
I think they should have had all of the features on the roadmap at the minimum before launching their store. There's no excuse for how bare bones their launcher is, with how much money they make.
I think they should have had all of the features on the roadmap at the minimum before launching their store. There's no excuse for how bare bones their launcher is, with how much money they make.
Thanks for the detail. The Steam love-fest, in response to all of this, is just weird to me. I guess I'm old enough to remember when Steam launched -- it was EXTREMELY unpopular. People were...
Thanks for the detail. The Steam love-fest, in response to all of this, is just weird to me. I guess I'm old enough to remember when Steam launched -- it was EXTREMELY unpopular. People were furious at its existence as a launcher for CS, etc. It had practically all of the problems people are complaining about now with Epic. I do think it's important for Valve to face some competition in online game distribution, but obviously I don't want my data stolen. I haven't used or saved any payment information on Epic.
I see this line of thinking quite a lot, and I feel like it leaves out the fact that Steam sort of pioneered its kind of business. Basically every feature Steam has, Valve had to create. The Epic...
Exemplary
[Steam] had practically all of the problems people are complaining about now with Epic.
I see this line of thinking quite a lot, and I feel like it leaves out the fact that Steam sort of pioneered its kind of business. Basically every feature Steam has, Valve had to create. The Epic Store does not have this problem. The set of features that are expected from an online gaming storefront can be found in many of its competitors, so I really don't see why I should be patient while they reinvent the wheel.
I've seen a decent amount of ranting and speculation too, but to turn the question back on you: can you think of a likely situation in which things are made better for the consumer by Epic paying...
I've seen a decent amount of ranting and speculation too, but to turn the question back on you: can you think of a likely situation in which things are made better for the consumer by Epic paying hugely for exclusivity? That's my concern, that they're taking the market by force rather than with a superior product, and that they're only doing so because they think it'll make them more money in the long run - money that, one way or another, comes out of the customers' pockets.
We have yet to see Valve's real reaction to the Epic Store. The things they've done so far, like the dev pricing, the new incoming overlay, the update to allow Steam devs access to the internal...
We have yet to see Valve's real reaction to the Epic Store. The things they've done so far, like the dev pricing, the new incoming overlay, the update to allow Steam devs access to the internal Valve global network, have all been in development for years. Ultimately, I'd say that there's a chance that Epic will force Valve to improve on Steam, but in all honesty, I'm very satisfied with it. Anyone but Valve would've already abused their monopoly position to maximize profit. The people at Valve aren't directly driven by the shareholders lighting up fires under their asses, so they have some leeway on how to really improve Steam for customers and developers.
My position on the Epic store is basically driven by Occam's razor: is it likely that a company throwing vast amounts of money at forming a short-term monopoly will act in the best interests of the consumer in the long term?
I doubt that "squeeze out competition and then raise prices" will show up on the roadmap, but history suggests that's the likely outcome here.
Real competition would be separating the digital distribution services from game development/publishing. The real problem is how much games licenses are tied to these services.
The Epic Store really only has "lower prices" if the games are sold elsewhere. Imagine how much more excited people would be about EGS if Metro launched at $50 on it while still being available for $60 on Steam.
I would advise any and all potential customers of epic to be very cautious and take this roadmap with a grain of salt. They are heavily in bed with tencent, regardless of if epic gives them data or takes order from tencent, everyone should understand one simple fact, not gathering 85 million user's behaviors and account activity as well as metadata is simply leaving millions of dollars on the table. Now ask yourself, if you were in their position and wanted to start a store and save face from shady business practices, would you find a way to give that data up without simply handing it over so you can say you don't give tencent access to your customer data? If it means millions of dollars in easy revenue, you bet I would. What makes you think epic is any different?
Obviously I don't want to be tracked online by a Chinese conglomerate or an authoritarian regime, but with posts like yours here and elsewhere, I'm having trouble understanding the immense level of paranoia. What's "worst case" here? Is the fear that Epic Games Launcher becomes a rootkit that tracks ALL activity on my computer? Or simply that China/Tencent will know what games I play? Not dismissing your concern; I'm genuinely trying to understand.
Epic's store has already been caught reading data from the Steam folder, information about your friends and recently played games. They created an encrypted file on your hard drive of it and claimed they only send it to their servers if you wish to import your Steam friends, but they always create the file, doesn't matter if you choose to do so. Completely ignoring the fact that Steam has APIs made exactly for this purpose, which you should use instead of snooping through the PC of the user. So there already is evidence of Epic going through your files.
The problem being we simply don't know what tencent is doing with our data, and the fact is epic is using other launchers to steal our private information for their gain. This is absolutely not something we as consumers should just be okay with, it's essentially someone spying at you through your home window and seeing what products you use everyday then knowing that, turn around and buy up all the products in your area and sell them to you at enormous overhead for profit. It's not okay to steal a movie, or music, or a TV show, or shoplift from a supermarket, so why in the world is it okay for them to steal my personal information without my consent and use that information in ways they don't disclose?
I'll give it a try.
1: Data Security
When creating an Epic account, they don't even manage to send out confirmation email reliably.. Which means that there's a good number of Epic accounts out there vulnerable to hijacking. All you need is their email. A company which doesn't manage to have something so basic working well doesn't get any of my other, more sensitive data like credit card numbers. In the fairly short time they've had an internet presence, their forums and account systems have suffered at least 3 major data breaches (2016, 2018 and more recently in January 2019). For me personally this is reason enough to not give them any of my personal data ever, or at the very least until I see significant change.
2: Exclusives
This is the major sticking point for some people, and another reason for me to not want to support them. I dislike exclusives in the console world already. Arbitrarily making me use a clearly inferior store (see point 1, 3) because Epic decided to throw some Fortnite cash at publishers makes me dislike the company immensely, as they aren't interested in competing by creating a viable product, but by forcing consumers to flock to their store because they don't have any other choice.
Adding to this, Epic (and the publishers, by an extent) are clearly willing to advertise their products on Steam and later pulling them for exclusivity (such as with Metro: Exodus), where the time frame was extremely short.
3: An inferior store
The Epic Store itself is extremely barebones and has a fraction of the features that Steam has. This is to be expected, as they haven't been a player in this business for as long as Valve has, but considering the money they are making and clearly willing to throw at publishers to build a consumer base, they could've invested that money into actually building a viable product. There are no forums, which has lead to hilarious occasions where Epic users turn to the Steam forums for support.. Another example. It also has no achievements. The support is garbage. And so on and so forth. Steam, Origin, Humble Bundle, even Uplay are all much better storefronts.
I could probably add more to this list if I sat on it longer, but that's all I have for now. The exclusivity is obviously what stings the most, because I wouldn't have to bother with the store at all and could simply ignore it, but this way Epic is forcing me to be vocal about these things.
EDIT: Also, the Epic CEO is a dick and a hypocrite, who has previously spoken out against exclusivity when he was attacking Microsoft for it. He's another reason I dislike the company.
I think they should have had all of the features on the roadmap at the minimum before launching their store. There's no excuse for how bare bones their launcher is, with how much money they make.
Thanks for the detail. The Steam love-fest, in response to all of this, is just weird to me. I guess I'm old enough to remember when Steam launched -- it was EXTREMELY unpopular. People were furious at its existence as a launcher for CS, etc. It had practically all of the problems people are complaining about now with Epic. I do think it's important for Valve to face some competition in online game distribution, but obviously I don't want my data stolen. I haven't used or saved any payment information on Epic.
I see this line of thinking quite a lot, and I feel like it leaves out the fact that Steam sort of pioneered its kind of business. Basically every feature Steam has, Valve had to create. The Epic Store does not have this problem. The set of features that are expected from an online gaming storefront can be found in many of its competitors, so I really don't see why I should be patient while they reinvent the wheel.
I've seen a decent amount of ranting and speculation too, but to turn the question back on you: can you think of a likely situation in which things are made better for the consumer by Epic paying hugely for exclusivity? That's my concern, that they're taking the market by force rather than with a superior product, and that they're only doing so because they think it'll make them more money in the long run - money that, one way or another, comes out of the customers' pockets.
We have yet to see Valve's real reaction to the Epic Store. The things they've done so far, like the dev pricing, the new incoming overlay, the update to allow Steam devs access to the internal Valve global network, have all been in development for years. Ultimately, I'd say that there's a chance that Epic will force Valve to improve on Steam, but in all honesty, I'm very satisfied with it. Anyone but Valve would've already abused their monopoly position to maximize profit. The people at Valve aren't directly driven by the shareholders lighting up fires under their asses, so they have some leeway on how to really improve Steam for customers and developers.