16 votes

Runners - please help me with tempo runs!

I’m training for a 10K race in September. The app I’m using this time includes tempo runs - I’ve never done one before! When I looked it up the speed advice was pretty vague (hard but controlled) or dependent on your race time (85-90% of your 5k race speed). I find both of these pretty confusing! I recently did a 7km race at an average speed of 6.20/km and did the jogging portion of this run at about that speed (I wasn’t trying to run fast in my 7km, only to finish!); I did the tempo portion of my run at about 5.45/km, but I found it pretty tough and also found it hard to maintain a speed without constantly checking my watch.

Any tips here?

24 comments

  1. [8]
    Kazarelth
    Link
    In addition to the tips from @Hooked I will also suggest that you do some intervals for increasing speed and stamina. I've found this set of 8 interval work for me as one of the training days (my...

    In addition to the tips from @Hooked I will also suggest that you do some intervals for increasing speed and stamina. I've found this set of 8 interval work for me as one of the training days (my 5k fastest is 4:55, average "fast run" is 5:20 - so please adjust down or up depending on your race predictor) :

    1. Warm up - 15m @6:00/km
    2. 8 sets of: Sprinting for 15s and recovery of 1:30m
    3. Cool down - 10m @6:10 /km

    Mad gains once you start and then keep increasing the sets of increasing speeds over weeks. The cool down is the most important cuz you'll likely be at threshold or peak the whole time.

    8 votes
    1. Hooked
      Link Parent
      Agreed on this point as well. If you're looking for a great book to learn the different components of training, I recommend the book Faster Road Racing by Pete Fitzgerald and Philip Latter. It's...

      Agreed on this point as well.

      If you're looking for a great book to learn the different components of training, I recommend the book Faster Road Racing by Pete Fitzgerald and Philip Latter. It's got lots of good info about what different work outs are for. It's got tips for training and non-running workouts. It gives information about nutrition before, during, and after the race as well as recovery. And most importantly, it's got training schedules for different distances and different weekly mileage.

      4 votes
    2. [3]
      AgnesNutter
      Link Parent
      Thanks for the tip! That looks manageable to fit into my training. When you say “recovery” do you mean fully stopped or a slow jog?

      Thanks for the tip! That looks manageable to fit into my training. When you say “recovery” do you mean fully stopped or a slow jog?

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        Kazarelth
        Link Parent
        I actually walk because the interval sprint is basically max speed and I am out of wind by the end of it (which is why the last cooldown step is a killer - I go from full tilt speed to comfortable...

        I actually walk because the interval sprint is basically max speed and I am out of wind by the end of it (which is why the last cooldown step is a killer - I go from full tilt speed to comfortable 6-6:10/km pace without a break which kills me for the first 3-4 mins: I am at peak HR zone the whole time). But a slow jog would actually be much better imo - keeps your heart rate in Zone 3-4 the whole time for the workout.

        2 votes
        1. AgnesNutter
          Link Parent
          Thanks so much, I’ll try it out and see how I go :)

          Thanks so much, I’ll try it out and see how I go :)

          2 votes
    3. [3]
      exces6
      Link Parent
      So are you saying you do 8 sets of the above for each tempo run workout? Then increase your warm up and cool down speeds over the following weeks? Or increase the number of sets but keeping the...

      So are you saying you do 8 sets of the above for each tempo run workout?

      Then increase your warm up and cool down speeds over the following weeks? Or increase the number of sets but keeping the same speeds?

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        Kazarelth
        Link Parent
        I generally increase the number of sets. I'm not training actively - and every Friday I end up having alcohol which kind of resets the progress over the week to a certain extent. But if I'm...

        I generally increase the number of sets. I'm not training actively - and every Friday I end up having alcohol which kind of resets the progress over the week to a certain extent. But if I'm restarting my entire training regiment I start with sets of 6 and a cooldown of 5mins, and over the weeks build up to set of 9-10 with cooldown of 15 mins. Basically the intervals increase power, while the cooldown kind of builds threshold/peak HR stamina. (I'm not a scientist - just my lived experience)

        1. exces6
          Link Parent
          Awesome, thanks! I've just been kind of making up my plan as I go and have settled into 3x 3 mile runs during the week and a 9 mile on the weekends. Works well for half marathon distance but I've...

          Awesome, thanks! I've just been kind of making up my plan as I go and have settled into 3x 3 mile runs during the week and a 9 mile on the weekends. Works well for half marathon distance but I've slowed a bit recently and also would love to push out to marathon distance at some point. Getting that distance in my warm climate is a little difficult, but I hope to get there someday.

          1 vote
  2. [2]
    Hooked
    Link
    The way tempo runs have been explained to me is to basically get your body used to running at your goal pace. Your training program probably has easy runs, long runs, speed workouts, and tempo...

    The way tempo runs have been explained to me is to basically get your body used to running at your goal pace. Your training program probably has easy runs, long runs, speed workouts, and tempo runs. Tempo runs are supposed to incorporate all 3. You're usually running a longer distance than normal, but not quite a long run. You're running pretty hard, but you're not out of breath. You're running smoothly and relaxed, but keeping an eye on your pace.

    Since this is your first tempo run, I would recommend running about half of just over half of the distance of your race, at your goal pace +5 or 10 sec/km. Make sure you have a warm up and cool down Km just to make sure you are ready to go.

    Good luck! Feel free to ask me any follow up questions.

    Edit: Quick couple of things I wanted to add. First, your first tempo run is gonna feel tough. You might feel like you're goal pace is too fast and that you can't do it. That's fine for now, depending on when your race is, you'll have time to get the adaptaions from your training and you'll get better. Second, as you do more tempo runs, check in with how you're feeling. Are you sticking to the pace? Do they still feel very hard? Are you improving? The tempo runs are a great way to see how the race might go. It's similar to. how a teacher does quizzes on the material to get an idea of what the students struggle with as the exam date approaches. The tempo runs are a way to see how you're doing, tracking your fitness, and build some mental toughness as well.

    4 votes
    1. AgnesNutter
      Link Parent
      Thank you! There’s no speed work in this plan, and it’s sort of building me up to “proper” tempo runs I think - this run was 10 min jog, 3 mins tempo, 10 min jog. I think your edit is key: it’s...

      Thank you! There’s no speed work in this plan, and it’s sort of building me up to “proper” tempo runs I think - this run was 10 min jog, 3 mins tempo, 10 min jog. I think your edit is key: it’s just about checking in with myself and working out from there what to do next time, rather than trying to get it perfect from run one!

      1 vote
  3. [7]
    circaechos
    Link
    Yay! Exercise physiology time! Also, @Hooked probably has the better lay explanation, @loaffy mentioned this, but though I'd expand a bit -- I don't use all this knowledge terribly often, but it's...

    Yay! Exercise physiology time! Also, @Hooked probably has the better lay explanation, @loaffy mentioned this, but though I'd expand a bit -- I don't use all this knowledge terribly often, but it's fun to have around :)

    So, there's two types of respiration in humans: aerobic and anaerobic. Aerobic respiration is probably what you're used to with running: your body needs oxygen to keep moving, but you can take in enough oxygen that you can maintain a steady state without going into a deficit. That is, oxygen in >= oxygen used. Aerobic respiration is the opposite; you're going fast enough that your body's using more oxygen than you're taking in, leaving you with an oxygen deficit; oxygen in < oxygen used. (And, technically it's more about CO2 buildup than oxygen, but they're kinda the same -- breathing is just as much about getting rid of CO2 as it is about taking in air). So, there's a threshold where oxygen in ~= oxygen used, that's your threshold/tempo/10k pace! Lactic threshold is another name, it's the point where lactate stars to build up quickly. The point of training at this pace is so that your body gets more efficient at processing oxygen and getting rid of lactate, so that when you're racing, the point at where oxygen in ~= oxygen out is just a bit faster, you're more oxygen/lactate efficient at all speeds, and (hopefully) you run faster time :)

    So, with all that, you can go the super scientific route (e.g. 85% of max heart rate or gauging pace based on a recent race), or (my preference) you can use those to approximate a pace, and then go off of feel. Most folks, with some practice, can start to feel out where the switch happens between aerobic and anaerobic respiration. I've described it as a "tying up" of muscles, or a breathing that dips below 2-2 (that is, breathing faster than two steps per inhale, two steps per exhale).

    I'm much more a fan of going by breathing and effort --- when prescribed a pace, lots of folks will try to rigorously stick to it, rather than adjusting based on how well they're feeling that day. You don't get any benefit from going 5-10% faster than your tempo run pace, you just tire your body out more/risk unnecessary injury, and, if you slept poorly or your exercise increased, your threshold might be lower than what a recent race would prescribe. So, with all that, my advice would be to use online calculators to find an approximate pace (this one lists it as "threshold"), and go to a track or to a course that you have a pretty good idea of distances and try it out, eventually trying to focus on feel as much as you can. IIRC, tempo pace is about the same as 10k pace, but that depends a bunch on fitness, the terminology's more about respiration and lactate.

    Citations, I learned all this from Daniels' Running Formula, which I'm sure is deserving of a few valid critiques, but it's one of the more accessible exercise physiology resources that I've come across.

    4 votes
    1. [3]
      Hooked
      Link Parent
      Excellent explanation! Thank you for bringing in the technical explanation to the conversation. Your comment is pretty much exactly what my runner friend has explained to me several times, and my...

      Excellent explanation! Thank you for bringing in the technical explanation to the conversation. Your comment is pretty much exactly what my runner friend has explained to me several times, and my comment is basically my "how do I apply this knowledge" version of it (plus, I don't want to share info that I'm not completely certain of).

      As a small sidenote, this is why a lot of couch to 5k programs start out with a lot of walking and short burts of jogging. They are training your aerobic respiratory system so that you can eventually maintain a jogging pace without stopping. A lot of people start out running thinking they have to, well, run the entire time and that they'll eventually get better. Unfortunately, two things happen: First, they are only training their anaerobic system and not their aerobic system (which from my understanding is kind of the foundation of the two). Second, since they're only running anaerobically, they are constantly in pain since they're well last the lactic threshold, leading to people having a bad experience with running and thinking that they are not meant for running (which is a shame!).

      So for all new runners out there, start slow! Make sure that during your running workouts you're not constantly gasping for air (even if that means not running a whole lot). A good saying I've heard to determine whether you're aerobic goes like this: "If you can't talk you're going too fast. If you can sing, you're going too slow."

      Again, thanks for sharing the science behind it. Maybe at some point we can chat about the glucose in the blood and muscle cells, plus how nutrition during the race helps with all of that, cause learning about that was a total game changer for me in my long runs.

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        circaechos
        Link Parent
        Oh geez, blood glucose has definitely been beyond me; I was too cheap to think about mid-run snacks and my long runs never went beyond 14-16 miles, but I'd love to hear what you know!

        Oh geez, blood glucose has definitely been beyond me; I was too cheap to think about mid-run snacks and my long runs never went beyond 14-16 miles, but I'd love to hear what you know!

        1. Hooked
          Link Parent
          The short of it is that your body needs glucose to activate your muscles. This energy is stored in your blood (and is replenished by eating) and in the muscle cells themselves (and is replenished...

          The short of it is that your body needs glucose to activate your muscles. This energy is stored in your blood (and is replenished by eating) and in the muscle cells themselves (and is replenished by sleeping). While you run, your muscles are using energy from both of these stores, but once the glucose from your muscles is out, your done, you will start locking up, your muscles won't fire, and you'll be in a world of hurt. This is known as hitting the wall, and after enough running you'll hit it, the goal is to push that off until AFTER you've finished the race.

          One way to slow down the depletion of the energy stores in your cells is to replenish the glucose in your blood. This is why you see runners taking those little packets during their long runs, those packates contain basically pure sugar in a gel, and the runners have trained their gut to be able to absorb that energy while running (you train this by basically doing it a bunch lol, your body will figure it out). The body has a natural rate at which it can absorb nutrition, most people can absorb about 60g of glucose per hour, while the elite athletes are close to 90g per hour! The higher absorption rate means that they can basically keep their levels of sugar in the blood high and thus push off the hitting the wall for longer.

          The energy packets I used while training had about 28g of glucose in them, I assumed an average absorption rate of 60g, which means about 2 packets per hour, at the rste I was going that was more or less one packet every 4 miles.

          But yeah! that's basically my understanding of it. I'm not exactly clear on how the body decides where to draw its energy from, but all I know is that keeping your blood sugar at normal levels (as if you had just started running) as opposed to depleted (like when you're in the middle of a long run), means that you can last longer and feel fresh for longer. If I got anything else wrong, please correct me!

    2. [3]
      AgnesNutter
      Link Parent
      Thank you for such a great write up and explanation! Someone else also said to go by feel and how you’ve explained it here really helps me see why - your body conditions might not be the exact...

      Thank you for such a great write up and explanation! Someone else also said to go by feel and how you’ve explained it here really helps me see why - your body conditions might not be the exact same as they were last run/last race. Super duper helpful tip about the 2-2 breathing, that’s a really easy way to assess where my body is.

      Based on that calculator I did my last tempo run a little fast, and it definitely felt too fast! I have a problem sometimes where I don’t trust myself - if I’m tired I worry that I’m making excuses and I should just keep pushing. The replies here have made it a lot easier to see how important it is not to do that, and how to scan my body to make sure I’m at a good pace.

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        circaechos
        Link Parent
        You're welcome! Only caveat, IIRC 2-2 breathing assumes a stride around 90 (that is, averaging 90 steps with your right foot per minute). And totally, like, learning to listen to your body is a...

        You're welcome! Only caveat, IIRC 2-2 breathing assumes a stride around 90 (that is, averaging 90 steps with your right foot per minute). And totally, like, learning to listen to your body is a whole practice, well beyond running. I had a yoga teacher that would say that learning to balance the discipline for where you'd like your practice to be and grace for where your practice is, now, is at least a lifetime of work. But, in my experience, most folks that are running regularly are pretty solid on discipline, and grace doesn't get enough credit in those circles :)

        1 vote
        1. AgnesNutter
          Link Parent
          I’m quite short which would usually mean more than 90 strides a minute but I’m also quite slow so maybe it’ll balance out! Thanks for the extra info. So true about needing grace for yourself. It’s...

          I’m quite short which would usually mean more than 90 strides a minute but I’m also quite slow so maybe it’ll balance out! Thanks for the extra info.

          So true about needing grace for yourself. It’s the constant push/pull between wanting to go go go and always improve, and not pushing your body to injury, isn’t it. Without grace for where your body is you’re always either frustrated by your progress or you’re always hurt by pushing beyond where you are now

          1 vote
  4. loaffy
    Link
    Tempo runs are a way of getting your body used to running with an increased amount of lactic acid in your muscles. Lactic acid is responsible for causing soreness/tiredness. This way when it comes...

    Tempo runs are a way of getting your body used to running with an increased amount of lactic acid in your muscles. Lactic acid is responsible for causing soreness/tiredness. This way when it comes to race day and you are running at 100% you can hold it longer before the lactic acid starts to creep in.

    2 votes
  5. [2]
    ianw
    Link
    The way I learned tempo runs back in high school, and something I’ve tried to stick to, is the concept of “hard but manageable” or “comfortably hard”. I believe, according to some traditional...

    The way I learned tempo runs back in high school, and something I’ve tried to stick to, is the concept of “hard but manageable” or “comfortably hard”. I believe, according to some traditional definitions, it’s something that you really should be able to hold for about an hour for someone who’s properly trained.

    This is all very vague, but I really do think that starting out, not looking at your watch and just thinking “this should sting, but I want to be able to hold it for awhile” is a good mindset. If you do this once a week or so for awhile, you’ll start to nail down what that pace is, and more importantly, how to run at the correct tempo pace for whatever your current fitness is.

    I can also highly recommend “Faster Road Racing” by Pfitz that someone else mentioned, but be warned that it is not necessarily for beginners, the plans can be pretty tough and they understate the weekly mileage needed to start them.

    1 vote
    1. AgnesNutter
      Link Parent
      I looked for that book and my library doesn’t have it so I’ll have to look further afield! Good tip about not clock watching (watch watching?) and going by feel. Currently I feel that I would...

      I looked for that book and my library doesn’t have it so I’ll have to look further afield!

      Good tip about not clock watching (watch watching?) and going by feel. Currently I feel that I would struggle for even 5 minutes and might never get to an hour at tempo pace - I just have one pace and that’s “I can probably finish this amount of time but maybe not”, but I guess that’s the idea of practicing!

      1 vote
  6. [4]
    nullbuilt
    Link
    Can I ask what app are you using for training? I tend to run simply with a fixed-BPM playlist which gets very comfortable quite quickly; since I tend to run only on warmer seasons, I get the...

    Can I ask what app are you using for training? I tend to run simply with a fixed-BPM playlist which gets very comfortable quite quickly; since I tend to run only on warmer seasons, I get the feeling of plateauing every time and maybe an app can give me some guidance.

    1. [2]
      piedpiper
      Link Parent
      Not OP, but I've heard a lot of people recommend Nike Run Club. I downloaded it, but haven't tried it yet.

      Not OP, but I've heard a lot of people recommend Nike Run Club. I downloaded it, but haven't tried it yet.

      1. elguero
        Link Parent
        I really liked the Nike App for the guided runs. They will talk in effort not pace, so it’s suitable for everyone. It has some runs that taught me my different speeds and how to switch gears. The...

        I really liked the Nike App for the guided runs. They will talk in effort not pace, so it’s suitable for everyone. It has some runs that taught me my different speeds and how to switch gears.

        The plans in the app didn’t work for me, but I might revisit them since they seem to have made an update to them.

        I usually track with the Apple Fitness app nowadays, because it’s easier to access the data.

    2. AgnesNutter
      Link Parent
      It’s called 5k to 10K; the app logo (? Picture? The little square you click on to get into the app) is blue with 10K in green. I’m not sure it’s the absolute best for the job, but it’s free!

      It’s called 5k to 10K; the app logo (? Picture? The little square you click on to get into the app) is blue with 10K in green. I’m not sure it’s the absolute best for the job, but it’s free!