Should I go for a fun convertible I can drive every day to work, or a classic weekender?
Hey! I know a couple Miata owners are hiding here, so I figured I'd ask a car question here. Bear with me, this is a non problem that I blow out of proportion.
I get twitchy when I don't have a fun manual car, so right now I have a high mileage 330i E46 ZHP sedan. For those out of the know they're fairly notorious BMWs that are pretty unreliable, but the E46 generation is fairly easy to work on yourself. This was the ideal performance model that I wanted for a while, but unfortunately this one gave me lots more things to work on over the last year and a half than my last one. (Who knew the one with 230k miles off the street would be more difficult to sort than my grandpa's pristine 50k example??) It is a great car, it brings fun to my commute, but I don't feel the love with it. After the last repair I did took a turn, I just wanted it out of my parking spot more than anything... So now that it's back in a solid state, I have it up for sale and I'm planning on replacing it.
Here's the problem: bare minimum, if I'm going to drive something to work I want it to have side airbags. My pregnant wife and I almost got sidelined by a moving truck blowing a red light in my old NB Miata, and while I consider that kind of thing could happen regardless of the car I'm driving, I have a 60-mile highway commute and figured I shouldn't play those odds in a car with 80's safety sensibilities anymore. I sold the Miata and got the BMW, for safety and because it had back seats in case I needed to take the kid in it.But then I ended up never needing the back seats at all, and it doesn't seem like I really ever will in whatever I get. So now I'm looking to replace the bimmer with something less practical. And while my second kid is on the way - so we won't have a ton of time to go together for a bit - my wife agreed she misses the drop-top. So I'm looking at convertibles again. I feel like I've got two routes about this. (We have a minivan and a family sedan, so ignore any unmentioned notions of practicality going into this.)
The NC Miata has side airbags, and as a benefit they're dead reliable. They're a bit faster, a bit more comfy, and all around a better car than my NB was. So I could save up for that... But I just don't feel a ton of heart for them? Despite all the revisionism going around the NC and how they're underappreciated, I just find them very, uh, bar of soap to look at. Some seat time might change my mind here. A Fiat 500 Abarth or a 986 Boxster would also work, and I find them more interesting, but they don't have the reliability points.
On the other hand, if I'm looking to get something for my hobby... Shouldn't I get something I really want? There are a few things I'm interested in my price range, but what's really piquing my interest is an NA Miata or an MR2 of some generation. I had a bad NA before and would like to try again; I adore the styling, and the market cooled off a bit since the Covid bubble. With the MR2, I've never had a mid-engine car and they seem pretty simple, reliable, and aren't as unpredictable as a lot of other MR options. I could upgrade either of those down the line, and many I'm looking at are well taken care of with rust or pre-cat issues out of the way. There's also a huge influx of interesting kei cars and imports coming in that I'm really curious to drive and work on in the price range; Beats, Cappuccinos, Pajero Minis, and GC8 Imprezas are on my radar.
Since I'm not going to be driving to work for a few months while my kid is coming, it won't matter if I won't take it. But when that time comes I'm not going to drive the thing 5/7 days of the week. A manual car really livens my commute up and makes it much more enjoyable, and I probably won't want to be working on an old something with two kids around.So I keep jumping between these two options. My brain tells me I should save for an NC2 Miata; my heart tells me to get something cooler. My gut says I'm clueless and I should just wait for he best thing that pops up. But I just don't know.
Was anyone asking themselves the same question at some point, and what did you end up doing? Did you get the fun side dream car and keep it as the weekender, or did you get the compromise car and enjoy it every day?
What is your budget? That will influence a lot of peoples answer (including mine).
Whoops - budget is about $8k right now, more towards $12k if I wait a bit. Unfortunately I'm in a salt state, so non-rusty stuff comes at a premium. I don't mind higher mileage stuff as long as service history checks out.
Fly to a salt-free state, then drive the car back!
Would you just drive this in the spring/summer/fall, or would you try to drive it in winter too?
Given your price point, I’d stick with a Miata. Could you swing the NC PRHT? That could be better for winter. If you are just sticking with a summer car, go for the NA.
I would, but I've got kid #2 coming in the next two months and my wife needs me around! I've pulled a couple cars from out of state and I may be able to sneak out for a road trip to a border state, but probably nothing more for a bit.
I would want to drive during the winter when its not oppressively snowy, so yeah PRHT and a lot of under-body washes most likely.
Man if it weren't for the airbag requirement, I'd say go motorcycle + sidecar since it seems like your key requirements are gears/clutch, 2 seats, and wind in your hair.
Nahhhh, I took the MSF and flunked it twice in one weekend. ADHD, bad balance, and if I'm oh-shitting over the handlebars braking the front wheel I'm gonna do it at like 60 MPH. Not built for it.
Fair enough xD. It wasn't a serious suggestion, I'd personally like a Ural, but those things are sooooo expensive.
Yeah, I had the same feeling after seeing some of BMW's bikes a while back lol. They just look so purpose-driven, and I'd love to be able to do motorcycle repair since it seems like a more straightforward, accessible car repair... Ah well.
Yeah apparently the older BMW boxer engines (and Triumph?) are a bit easier to deal with in some cases as the cyclinder head covers are literally sticking sideways out of the bike, so you don't have to take half the bike apart. Also the older bikes don't have quite as much insane electronics and engineering as the newer ones.
TLDR: I am in favor of a daily driver that you can have some fun with and a compromised weekender.
Up until this spring my garage was K1 BMW (motorcycle), 228 BMW, 981 Porsche, and 944S2 Porsche. My commute is 30-40 minutes each way 75% highways/freeways and 25% congested roads in town.
The 944S2 is also a lot of fun to drive. But it is a retired race car and has no creature comforts. The AC was ripped out decades ago. It has a cassette deck and I have some good period correct rock tapes but there's no listening to a podcast. As you've said it's safety is minimal. It has bragging rights for one of the first cars with an airbag at all an that's about it. I feel absolutely tiny compared to modern vehicles. It isn't an obnoxious loud car, but it is loud from road noise and the rattles an old car develops, driving it is an effort, and I'm sweaty and smell like gas when I get to my destination. I love it. I don't like to commute in it.
What I found is that I hated commuting in something like a 981. Mine had very low miles, excellent condition. Driving it on the roads I commute on was a mix of boring and stressful. I enjoyed taking it on longer drivers in to the city but city roads were awful on the tires and wheels so I ended up avoiding that. It was a joy to drive on our mountain backroads but there is a precise season for that.
So 98% of the time I just take my daily driver BMW. It's racking up miles, but it's well maintained, gets the job done, and a boring drive is nothing more than getting from point A to point B. I can listen to podcasts, and navigate on google maps, I pay someone else to maintain it. It can be zippy when I want it to be and I like it a lot.
So I sold the 981, it held its value through the time I had it so I got to have the experience for essentially free. But it was just too good. Disgustingly fast, sounded amazing, handled perfectly with no effort. But it has none of the edges (personality) that the 944S2 has and with stress that the BMW doesn't.
So my advice is, accept the compromises a car you love might have for the weekends or commuting days when you want to put up with that friction. But have a car you can drive daily and brings you some joy and can be fun in when the mood strikes, but functions as a transportation device.
That's part of the problem - I bought a Sienna recently because family + dogs, and since my wife drives it 90% of the time she's letting me take her Legacy to/from work whenever needed. So I have her functional appliance car to get me to and back. It's a good appliance, buuut that's that. Due to insurance and a lack of spaces I don't really want to get a fourth car. Doesn't help she can't drive stick.
Ideally we could share something like a DSG Mk7 GTI or a DCT Veloster/Elantra N, and then I'd go full project on our second car. But, y'know, money. Two college accounts, I'm already being selfish enough.
I was not so recently freed of the burden of a Mk7 GTI Autobahn. If your idea of a fun project car is hunting down cooling system leaks and having to remove at least five torx screws, if not the whole bumper, to replace a +$100 bulb then you'll probably have a lot of fun.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it wasn't all bad but it seemed like a new problem cropped up every time I let it out of my sight. I've still got some unused g13 in the garage because I always had to keep a bottle on hand.
I had a mk7 and swear I’m the luckiest motherfucker on the planet. I bought it in 2018 at 50k miles. It was a 2015 2 door manual with the headlight package in white (the exact one I wanted). I bought for $18k, dailied it and autocrossed it for 3 years, got it to 80k miles, and then sold it for $14k in the covid market when I owed $12k and I never had to do anything more than an oil change.
Sorry yours was a pain in the ass. I’m not really trying to brag, just commiserating with a fellow mk7 owner, I suppose. Fantastic cars when they’re working properly. That + my NA Miata is probably the best two car lineup I’ll ever have.
Woof, I heard Mk7s were the good ones... I had a Mk5 TSI that was a money pit, but I absolutely adored the drive - felt fast, handled well, carried torque wonderfully, and it was still comfy at the end of the day.
Is there a problem with daily driving the legacy? In your position I would just expect to daily that and get whatever you want as your weekender/summer driver. Then when the legacy needs to be replaced, find something sporty enough for you and comfortable for her.
For fun weekend cars, that MR2 you mentioned in another comment would be very tempting to me as well. A corvette is tempting especially a C4, there's a very nice looking one on my local craigslist for 10k. I've owned a couple LT1 Trans Ams and really enjoyed them. With your budget I personally might look for an LT1 Camaro or Trans Am. A car I've always been interested in is a 90s Eclipse, but I'm not sure if I want it enough to buy and maintain one. Datsun 260Z occasionally sell in your price range but I haven't shopped them much. And 944's are also within your price range. They're pretty much a German Miata
The Legacy works just fine and it's comfortable if I got an older car, it's just the trade-off that I could get something I could drive more and get to enjoy it all week.
The C4 is tempting, yeah. I'm on the fence about an LT1 as mentioned elsewhere with the Optispark setup, but I could just bite the bullet on that and do the water pump/Optispark job. Or just get a 1990/1991.
The 944 looks cool, but to get Miata performance with like twice as many water pump / electrical problems and an extra ~500 lbs doesn't really sound fun. S2 or a turbo would be a different story, but money. Funny enough I think Mazda got the design better by ripping it off for the FC RX-7 - it's maybe my favorite car design - but the convertible is such a boat anchor for a car with lackluster torque.
Have you ever considered a motorcycle or scooter?
A state approved training course, full high quality safety gear, insurance, and a used bike can all be had for under $5k. If you want to go for a new bike, you can still be all in for under $10k.
I got a 125cc scooter for $1.5k and it’s not incredibly fast, but it’s much more engaging in corners than a car has ever been.
EDIT: Just saw your reply to Plik and definitely valid. It’s not for everyone and it’s best to know your limits.
As an NA miata owner, I heavily recommend them. It's such a joy of a car, fun to drive at any speed, and fun to drive regardless if you leave it stock or mod it. I have a 94 that I love to bits! That said, even though I also feel nothing for NC miatas, I feel like if you drove one, you'd probably forget all about the looks after a couple weeks, though it will probably not give you the effect an NA does, where every time you walk out of a store and see it parked there, you get to relive your "damn, that's my car" realization every single time, it never gets old.
I have a love for most 90's japanese sports cars, so I like where your head is at with an MR2 as well. The non turbo versions are reasonably priced and a decent performace step up from a miata. I also have a GC8 impreza 2.5RS sedan and if you can find a nice one, that's also a great choice. It will be a bit more plain than a miata or MR2, but they're easy to work on and have the benefit of being a year round car. That said, many, many of them are rusted out and I've been pretty frustrated when working on mine in the last few months, but there are also some interesting things with mine, like how a prior owner put mystery calipers in it.
If you want to be really dumb, boxters and caymans can get down into your price range if you keep your nose to the ground and accept it will probably have cosmetic issues.
Some other cars that are likely in your price range: C4 corvette, BMW Z3, Integras of various trims, 90's civic hatches, tons of options :)
Feel free to bounce ideas off me as it sounds like we have similar car interest and while I can't tell you what to buy, I know it helps to bounce ideas off. I'm starting to consider selling the miata, not because I really want to, but because I've only got one garage stall and want to experience other sports cars, but I don't think I'll be able to until I buy a house, which is probably 3-5 more years away (I've had the miata four years already). So I'm looking at very similar stuff to you in a similar price range. NGL, it's tempting to know that I could essentially trade my NA for a C4 corvette...
Jesus, yeah we have similar taste. I was first planning on getting a C4! But a mix of the weight, the Optispark issues in later models, and what sounds like some slightly sketchy handling has me holding off there l. I'm not a power fiend and don't really need the LT1, so I still have an eye out for a 1990 MY specifically. Older circle tail lights plus the new interior is ideal to me.
I'm jealous of your GC8, the 22B is my unattainable dream car and a regular old 90's WRX would be my attainable one... But I feel later and later to the 90's Impreza party. A half-decent shell is like $4k starting since everyone else already had the same swap idea, and I don't have a driveway to do one anyway. I've kept a search on imports, but a decent WRX reaches like $14k minimum with the broker fees. That's probably down the line someday.
I'm hearing that a 986 S is an utterly stellar car, and I've adored the runny eggs since I had a toy one as a kid, but unfortunately all the sorted and well-priced ones in my budget are base models. And that's before I get to having a backup fund for parts and time for fixing the IMS, RMS, AOS, EIEIO, ETC...
It's funny, talking here I may be back to a C4? Parts are cheap, they shouldn't be a mystery to mechanics, rust shouldn't be a huge factor with fiberglass, the torque makes it an upgrade over other options, the top comes off, and if I keep it long enough I have that sweet, sweet "make my children laugh" button in the pop-ups. Or an NA and I slap a turbo in down the line? There are some beautiful ones around me in the $7k-$8k region.
I don't know. I wish I just knew what I wanted so I could hunker down on one set of searches and pounce. A lot of the unsureness comes from a 2zz MR-S for $6000 I saw last week, and I saw it at the 5 hour mark... Owner said he'd tell me if it didn't sell from the person going to see it, but that was a laugh. Been cringing since. And a few years ago I saw a pristine $4500 Integra GSR a few years ago that I should've messaged the poster for, but I just didn't because I thought I didn't want one at the time... It immediately disappeared. The whole Facebook Marketplace algo roulette has me down, you either stay glued to it or you miss these things.
Don't let the FOMO get to you. Yeah sometimes you miss stuff and it sucks, but new stuff is popping up all the time! And yeah, I hear you on the 22B, absolute dream car. Like you, I'd even settle for a WRX of the same gen, but realistically my current 2.5 RS is probably the nicest GC I'll drive. You can certainly find clean GC 2.5RS's and WRX's, but they're just not worth the money when they're selling for near 987 cayman money... At least around me in Minnesota, you can get rusty higher mile 2.5RS's for well under $8k if you just want to experience the 2.5L motor and have the GC body for a bit. Mine was only $2k though I knew the dude already and it needed an immediate suspension replacement, but I've been seeing a number of them around $4k or so.
If you're not in a position where you need a sports car at this exact moment, I say just look at facebook and craigslist every week for new stuff. Miatas and C4 corvette's are a dime a dozen, they won't go anywhere if you instead spend a few months looking for weird shit. If you can afford to wait for more things like that GSR, why not just wait a bit?
Y'know I'm thinking that's the right mentality, waiting for another cool deal seems fun. See where chance takes me on a deal, maybe save a couple bucks until I know for sure along the way... Who knows. Thanks, we'll see.
Not in the exact same boat since I don't have the safety and child requirements, but here's what happened to me to have a garage queen:
About 8 years ago, I bought a low miles S2000. They were cheaper back then, and with miles/age/wear it's still worth about what I paid for it on the used market. I suspect they're out of the price range for a toy. That said, I did daily the car for a few years. Eventually, I had use for a small truck and bought a 1st gen Canyon (5 on the floor). That's my daily. The S2k is an awesome car for many of the same reasons people like Miatas. It's also dead reliable. I can tell you the next five things that will break due to owning a 17 year old car simply because there's a fleet of folks keeping them on the road.
I'm personally much happier with the fun weekend car and boring (but still manual) daily. I also highly advocate that your weekend car be reliable. When stuff breaks, it's never the weekend car that gets priority in budgeting.
VTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEC
I would really love an S2K at some point, but they’re getting to be insanely priced for what they are.
I think as long as you don't want something low miles, it'll become more reasonable before too long. Setting expectations helps. They're all old now, and stock survivors are just going to become rarified. And of course, ignore BaT's crazy auctions on unicorns.
Just to get things straight before weighing in with opinion/options...
Requirements:
Want, but not required:
...the above correct or is a convertible also a requirement?
The side airbags are kinda the question here, it's more optional. If I find something that has side airbags and I'm bonkers about it, that's perfect. But if not, I'd have a cool weekend car. I also generally prefer things on the lighter side of like 3200 lbs, but I could do something like a Mustang if I found an interesting one like an early New Edge SVT Cobra at a low price.
Thoughts on replacing the sedan with a manual transmission sedan to satiate the need to row gears regularly and get a weekend car you don't have to compromise on?
To answer the question in your post: My cars are purpose built. Instead of having a street car I can take to the road course, I just decided to build an all out race car. Instead of getting a Jeep, Subaru, or similar compromise commuter/off roader, I decided to just build an off roader that happens to be street legal. I wanted a comfortable long range luxury cruiser, so I bought a limo. I needed a reliable daily driver I don't care about to get from A to B and can hold other people, so I got an Accord (after getting rid of a Saab I miss dearly). However, I do miss just having a fun, manual, street car so the Accord is likely to be replaced somewhat soon with a small pickup, station wagon, or van as I do have a need for more cargo capacity with the new house and I'll acquire something newer, that I'll minimally/not modify, for running around like a 370Z.
If side airbags aren't a requirement I'd go with an MR-S.
If side airbags are a requirement I'd go with an ND Miata, 350/370Z, or Lexus IS (even if both options are a little fatter than the 3,200lbs you want). With patience and a little wiggle room/negotiating all can be had within your budget.
The above all assume convertible, because I like convertibles (my race car is one) and they often tend to be less expensive on the used market.
I'm over in the UK so I think in terms of "MX-5" rather than Miata ... but I had a Japanese spec "NA" (technically a "Eunos Roadster") which was great fun but in terrible condition.
I eventually upgraded to a NB 10th Anniversary Special, which was then damaged in a crash and written off by the insurance company. It was replaced with an NC ... for about 6 months until we replaced it with another NB as we just found the NC dull.
Unfortunately a back injury means I struggle to squeeze myself into a NA/NB (for reference I'm 6'2") and spent about 6 months unable to drive my NB with the top up, so started looking at an ND as it gives just enough extra headroom to allow me to drive it. Eventually I ended up buying an Abarth 124 Spider ... which is an ND with a Fiat Turbo engine and some different body panels, it was made in the same Mazda factory and has the same interior, entertainment system, etc. I've had the Abarth for a few years now and planning to keep it long-term!
On each car swap I look at non-Mazda options, but the only options I'd ever been tempted by were S2000 or MR2 and I don't fit comfortably in the drivers seat of either! I've looked at the Boxter options a few times (I don't fit in the first-gen ones!) but not only do I expect maintenance to be painful but I think they are a car where "the limit" is much higher - thus I suspect I'd be going a lot faster at the point of getting into trouble. One of the great things about the MX-5 has always been the ability to have fun at relatively low speeds and give yourself a chance to get back out of trouble!
I don't know what US second-hand prices are like these days but its worth checking out the Fiat 124 or Abarth 124 as an ND variant, they are discontinued now so my be cheaper but Fiat will support them long-term and 90% of the thing is Mazda so the core is pretty bullet proof.
Manual 124s are just a touch out of reach, but I love the styling and it sounds like the Multiair is a pretty potent tuning engine. Definitely are on my radar if I see one at a low price.
Heh, I forget automatic 124 & MX-5's exist!
...i have an NC, an ND RF, and an elise: if you can afford an ND as your only car, it offers all the modern comforts of a grand tourer with runabout fun instantly on-tap whenever your daily commute obliges a bit of whimsy...
...also, dropped tops make traffic tolerable!..
UPDATE: Going off of the "wait for something cool to pop up" advice, I saw an, uh, interesting NA Miata that had a slew of absurd mods. Basically someone threw in a '99 BP4W, updated every part that could be updated - whether it was necessary or not - and then threw ITBs on for excessive measure. Unfortunately it wasn't registered at all (huh!) and the owner couldn't drive, so that was a bust.
In the manner of a good coin flip making you realize in the air what you really want, it turned out that made me realize I was excited at the thought of being in an NA again... So I reached out to the guy who had a nice clean one I'd been watching. I'm a sucker for 'em, turns out. Think I'll enjoy the heck out of it on the weekends as it is, and maybe I'll get that bug for ITBs or a turbo... Thanks for all the input, everyone!