I thought this was interesting because it goes into the actual linguistics issues here of "off the shelf" and "under the counter" language changes, concepts I'd never heard of before. It reminds...
I thought this was interesting because it goes into the actual linguistics issues here of "off the shelf" and "under the counter" language changes, concepts I'd never heard of before. It reminds me of children speaking with an English accent because of the indomitable symbol of cultural imperialism, Peppa Pig.
The article is quite short and maybe I missed where the professor's optimism is coming from that would put American accent into the off the shelf category. That, because the accent is something...
The article is quite short and maybe I missed where the professor's optimism is coming from that would put American accent into the off the shelf category. That, because the accent is something teens are emulating intentionally, that is why it is off the shelf and won't last?
What will make Irish teens stop consuming American tiktok well into their adult years? If they're not going to mass anymore are they regularly exposed to long readings of others Irish cultural offerings? What if there's a component of conscious fad copying, but the consumption exposes them to some elements of under the counter?
I don't necessarily disagree though, in fact I hope he's right.
A lot of Americans pronounce "data" in a British way because we all heard Sir Patrick Stewart pronounce Mr Data that way. We may not have all picked up Received Pronunciation but little things will get snuck under the counter anyway.
Also, bravo on the Peppa Pig reference! In our household we watched Stephen Fry narrated Pocoyo on loop, to a similar effect.
I think the principle thing the linguist here is offering is that conscious fad copying like this is not necessarily going to stick around. Fads change, teenagers grow out of their "copying what I...
That, because the accent is something teens are emulating intentionally, that is why it is off the shelf and won't last? What will make Irish teens stop consuming American tiktok well into their adult years? If they're not going to mass anymore are they regularly exposed to long readings of others Irish cultural offerings? What if there's a component of conscious fad copying, but the consumption exposes them to some elements of under the counter?
I think the principle thing the linguist here is offering is that conscious fad copying like this is not necessarily going to stick around. Fads change, teenagers grow out of their "copying what I see on tiktok" phase, etc. The parts of American English that are likely to actually become part of these Irish teens' language use longer-term are more likely to be aspects of language use that they're unconsciously emulating, rather than the whole accent they're affecting at the moment. These things are probably going to be a lot subtler than what Irish parents are worried about atm and it's vanishingly unlikely that they'll stop "sounding Irish" more generally longterm.
A lot of Americans pronounce "data" in a British way because we all heard Sir Patrick Stewart pronounce Mr Data that way. We may not have all picked up Received Pronunciation but little things will get snuck under the counter anyway.
This is a bit nitpicky, but the "British way" you describe (the one in which the first syllable is pronounced like "day") is the older pronunciation and has been in use both in the US and UK since the word came into use in its modern English sense in the 1940s or '50s. Perhaps Sir Patrick Stewart made this pronunciation more popular in the US than prior to Star Trek: Generations and contributed to fewer people using the alternate US pronunciation (the one in which the first syllable rhymes with "cat"), but the two pronunciations have co-existed in the US since well before then.
But, this is the sort of small change that could indeed stick around in a situation like this! It's just not guaranteed to happen and the more extreme idea of Irish teens switching to full-on American accents for their entire remaining lives is far-fetched.
I'm not aware of who coined it! The attestation of when it appeared in writing by is available on Online Etymology Dictionary (which I highly recommend, they're well-sourced and detailed) but they...
I'm not aware of who coined it! The attestation of when it appeared in writing by is available on Online Etymology Dictionary (which I highly recommend, they're well-sourced and detailed) but they don't include any details about who first used it that way so it might not be well-documented.
I’m wondering if these kids speak like that all the time, or only in certain contexts. Code switching has a pragmatic function, and it’s really interesting. But it’s a bit different from adopting...
I’m wondering if these kids speak like that all the time, or only in certain contexts. Code switching has a pragmatic function, and it’s really interesting. But it’s a bit different from adopting a different accent/dialect full time. Do these Irish youths speak the same way among each other, to their teachers and parents? Or does it only apply to certain situations?
One cool phenomenon I’ve observed in my own non-English language is that children who don’t speak the prestige dialect (the one commonly represented in media) will imitate the prestige dialect when they’re play-acting. They will then revert back to their native, local dialect when stepping out of their roleplay. This clearly serves a pragmatic function of differentiating between different contexts, and appears to have emerged organically among fairly young children. However, that’s quite different from consciously adapting your speech to something resembling that of a different demographic full time.
It would be interesting if the article had gone into some detail about that. Teenagers — really, all people, but especially teenagers — present different personas in different contexts. It’s a part of finding your identity. No one is the same person to everyone, but especially in your teens, a lot of people tend to experiment with radically different personas among their friends than they present to their elders.
When my daughter and my nieces were younger they all did this, and to be honest I have memories of doing it as well. Granted they and I weren't using the prestige dialect of British English, we...
One cool phenomenon I’ve observed in my own non-English language is that children who don’t speak the prestige dialect (the one commonly represented in media) will imitate the prestige dialect when they’re play-acting. They will then revert back to their native, local dialect when stepping out of their roleplay.
When my daughter and my nieces were younger they all did this, and to be honest I have memories of doing it as well. Granted they and I weren't using the prestige dialect of British English, we were all tilting toward the American, which is the accent that a majority of films and TV shows display here. I am inclined to agree with you that there is a pragmatic function of accent being derived by children. Hearing a specific accent used in contexts which are clearly fanciful and removed from real life probably links it quite strongly in their minds with playing make believe.
I thought this was interesting because it goes into the actual linguistics issues here of "off the shelf" and "under the counter" language changes, concepts I'd never heard of before. It reminds me of children speaking with an English accent because of the indomitable symbol of cultural imperialism, Peppa Pig.
The article is quite short and maybe I missed where the professor's optimism is coming from that would put American accent into the off the shelf category. That, because the accent is something teens are emulating intentionally, that is why it is off the shelf and won't last?
What will make Irish teens stop consuming American tiktok well into their adult years? If they're not going to mass anymore are they regularly exposed to long readings of others Irish cultural offerings? What if there's a component of conscious fad copying, but the consumption exposes them to some elements of under the counter?
I don't necessarily disagree though, in fact I hope he's right.
A lot of Americans pronounce "data" in a British way because we all heard Sir Patrick Stewart pronounce Mr Data that way. We may not have all picked up Received Pronunciation but little things will get snuck under the counter anyway.
Also, bravo on the Peppa Pig reference! In our household we watched Stephen Fry narrated Pocoyo on loop, to a similar effect.
I think the principle thing the linguist here is offering is that conscious fad copying like this is not necessarily going to stick around. Fads change, teenagers grow out of their "copying what I see on tiktok" phase, etc. The parts of American English that are likely to actually become part of these Irish teens' language use longer-term are more likely to be aspects of language use that they're unconsciously emulating, rather than the whole accent they're affecting at the moment. These things are probably going to be a lot subtler than what Irish parents are worried about atm and it's vanishingly unlikely that they'll stop "sounding Irish" more generally longterm.
This is a bit nitpicky, but the "British way" you describe (the one in which the first syllable is pronounced like "day") is the older pronunciation and has been in use both in the US and UK since the word came into use in its modern English sense in the 1940s or '50s. Perhaps Sir Patrick Stewart made this pronunciation more popular in the US than prior to Star Trek: Generations and contributed to fewer people using the alternate US pronunciation (the one in which the first syllable rhymes with "cat"), but the two pronunciations have co-existed in the US since well before then.
But, this is the sort of small change that could indeed stick around in a situation like this! It's just not guaranteed to happen and the more extreme idea of Irish teens switching to full-on American accents for their entire remaining lives is far-fetched.
Oooh today I learned :) thanks
Do we know if the person who coined the word use for computing was American or British (or some other nationality)?
I'm not aware of who coined it! The attestation of when it appeared in writing by is available on Online Etymology Dictionary (which I highly recommend, they're well-sourced and detailed) but they don't include any details about who first used it that way so it might not be well-documented.
I’m wondering if these kids speak like that all the time, or only in certain contexts. Code switching has a pragmatic function, and it’s really interesting. But it’s a bit different from adopting a different accent/dialect full time. Do these Irish youths speak the same way among each other, to their teachers and parents? Or does it only apply to certain situations?
One cool phenomenon I’ve observed in my own non-English language is that children who don’t speak the prestige dialect (the one commonly represented in media) will imitate the prestige dialect when they’re play-acting. They will then revert back to their native, local dialect when stepping out of their roleplay. This clearly serves a pragmatic function of differentiating between different contexts, and appears to have emerged organically among fairly young children. However, that’s quite different from consciously adapting your speech to something resembling that of a different demographic full time.
It would be interesting if the article had gone into some detail about that. Teenagers — really, all people, but especially teenagers — present different personas in different contexts. It’s a part of finding your identity. No one is the same person to everyone, but especially in your teens, a lot of people tend to experiment with radically different personas among their friends than they present to their elders.
When my daughter and my nieces were younger they all did this, and to be honest I have memories of doing it as well. Granted they and I weren't using the prestige dialect of British English, we were all tilting toward the American, which is the accent that a majority of films and TV shows display here. I am inclined to agree with you that there is a pragmatic function of accent being derived by children. Hearing a specific accent used in contexts which are clearly fanciful and removed from real life probably links it quite strongly in their minds with playing make believe.