Posting more content by Olly Richards that I found to be very, very true -- with one asterisk. He talks about the "app villain" and shames Duolingo, says you won't find a polyglot who learned with...
Posting more content by Olly Richards that I found to be very, very true -- with one asterisk. He talks about the "app villain" and shames Duolingo, says you won't find a polyglot who learned with Duolingo. This is untrue. As a polyglot myself, I've learned Swedish and now am learning Russian with great help from Duolingo. The thing is, Duolingo isn't a way to learn, it's a way to assist learning. Duo's main attraction is how fun it is, which makes it very easy to get into the mood of "learning", at a time where you might not really have time to eg. get into a podcast, a conversation with a native, or whatever.
I see language apps as a good regular habit to supplement learning. If you don't have a reliable way of getting your brain in 'target-language-space' daily or weekly, you set daily/weekly goals on...
I see language apps as a good regular habit to supplement learning. If you don't have a reliable way of getting your brain in 'target-language-space' daily or weekly, you set daily/weekly goals on the language app. Not the best at teaching new things, but it can reinforce what you recently learned or help stop you from backsliding from lack of practice.
As someone who literally just closed Duolingo and then checked Tildes, thank you for posting this. I am subscribing to this channel, and I'm eager to learn how to learn.
As someone who literally just closed Duolingo and then checked Tildes, thank you for posting this. I am subscribing to this channel, and I'm eager to learn how to learn.
I ordered Olly's books the other day and started reading through the Russian beginner book two days ago. So in his method, he recommends re-reading chapters (and the stories are very short, so you...
I ordered Olly's books the other day and started reading through the Russian beginner book two days ago.
So in his method, he recommends re-reading chapters (and the stories are very short, so you don't get bored doing that). And the feedback loop is insanely powerful! Oh, wow.
I was lying in bed, picking it up again for the night, started reading my previous chapter again, when the endorphins and the motivation all kicked in. And I just had to share this here (and ping @callmedante). I'll try to describe it.
I usually don't read books so I haven't tried this in any of my previous language learning experiences, but damn: I started to re-read the first chapter, and my brain went "Wow, you're reading much faster than you did the first time around". Having already spent time understanding the story, I don't need to spend as long translating everything I'm unsure about in my head. And since the story is short and the chapters are only a few pages, it's very easy to reference for the brain, so the "images" associated with the words fly in quickly. This is my end goal, as I know this is how I need to think in order to be fluent, so it's great to actually practice exactly that so early in a language.
This, to some extent, is a hit I get from Duolingo as well but it's extremely different getting it from an app with maybe at most 3 lines of text, vs getting it from a whole chapter of a book.
I can also see how I could have been doing this 2-3 weeks ago instead of now. I wonder how different the effect would have been. I'll definitely try it earlier when I get to learning Spanish (though.. idk, I will likely have an easier time with spanish; Russian is just much further away from my other current languages).
The script being non-latin also amplifies the hit. I learned cyrillic a long time ago, so I imagine it's not "as" powerful as it would otherwise be, but still i get that fuzzy feeling of "hey, I'm quickly reading all these squiggles".
The past week has been especially revelatory. I am starting to understand certain .. oddities in behaviour I've kept encountering in Russian speakers, without really being able to put my finger on it before. And today, I was having dinner and my date actually made an english mistake and corrected herself, and I immediately knew why she made the mistake. It was very satisfying.
Oh man. Tempted to start journaling the language learning on Tildes; would somebody be interested?
This sounds pretty similar to LingQ! I am. Maybe we should try a weekly thread on language learning since it seems there is a handful of us actively trying to learn I'm currently learning...
This sounds pretty similar to LingQ!
Oh man. Tempted to start journaling the language learning on Tildes; would somebody be interested?
I am. Maybe we should try a weekly thread on language learning since it seems there is a handful of us actively trying to learn
I'm currently learning Ukrainian so I would be interested to see your progress from the Russian-learning perspective. I am currently using DuoLingo, Pimsleur, LingQ, and UkrainianLessons podcast.
Ah yes please let me know how that goes. Is Ukrainian your first Cyrillic language? What else do you speak? I was very motivated learning Ukrainian, unfortunately my now-ex seldom spoke it day to...
Ah yes please let me know how that goes. Is Ukrainian your first Cyrillic language? What else do you speak?
I was very motivated learning Ukrainian, unfortunately my now-ex seldom spoke it day to day and wasn’t particularly encouraging me. And I had found very little quality material for it :/
I did notice that my Ukrainian comprehension level has greatly increased since restarting Russian. More than I expected it to. But then again, a lot of my Twitter feed is in Ukrainian so i might just be passively picking up some of it too.
I’m down for a somewhat regular language learning thread. I know @ThatFanficGuy is currently learning French (and I think @cfabbro could use the motivation there as well). Feel free to create one and I’ll write some initial thoughts tomorrow!
Yes, it my first Cyrillic language. I only speak English, but was in the disastrous, required public education system of three years of Spanish where I came away not being able to speak Spanish....
Yes, it my first Cyrillic language. I only speak English, but was in the disastrous, required public education system of three years of Spanish where I came away not being able to speak Spanish. Fortunately, I have made some online friends that are Ukrainian and that is a big motivating factor to me learning. Plus, all my material was free.
Created a thread: https://tildes.net/~humanities/11oo/language_learning_thread_share_your_tips_progress_and_questions cc @ThatFanficGuy, @callmedante and @smores
There is absolutely nothing in the word like the joy of communicating with a native speaker on a regular basis, having them witness your progress and encourage you throughout.
There is absolutely nothing in the word like the joy of communicating with a native speaker on a regular basis, having them witness your progress and encourage you throughout.
This is so encouraging. I'm going to look into these books, because Duolingo is only so helpful, and their monetization strategy sometimes really gets on my nerves and interferes with my learning....
This is so encouraging. I'm going to look into these books, because Duolingo is only so helpful, and their monetization strategy sometimes really gets on my nerves and interferes with my learning. Thank you for sharing your experience!
I use duolingo a little differently to most: I exclusively use tests to unlock levels. This forces me to "reverse engineer" the meaning of words, in a way that is very similar to what Olly...
I use duolingo a little differently to most: I exclusively use tests to unlock levels. This forces me to "reverse engineer" the meaning of words, in a way that is very similar to what Olly Richards recommends doing with reading, and I independently found it to be extremely helpful.
Posting more content by Olly Richards that I found to be very, very true -- with one asterisk. He talks about the "app villain" and shames Duolingo, says you won't find a polyglot who learned with Duolingo. This is untrue. As a polyglot myself, I've learned Swedish and now am learning Russian with great help from Duolingo. The thing is, Duolingo isn't a way to learn, it's a way to assist learning. Duo's main attraction is how fun it is, which makes it very easy to get into the mood of "learning", at a time where you might not really have time to eg. get into a podcast, a conversation with a native, or whatever.
I see language apps as a good regular habit to supplement learning. If you don't have a reliable way of getting your brain in 'target-language-space' daily or weekly, you set daily/weekly goals on the language app. Not the best at teaching new things, but it can reinforce what you recently learned or help stop you from backsliding from lack of practice.
As someone who literally just closed Duolingo and then checked Tildes, thank you for posting this. I am subscribing to this channel, and I'm eager to learn how to learn.
I ordered Olly's books the other day and started reading through the Russian beginner book two days ago.
So in his method, he recommends re-reading chapters (and the stories are very short, so you don't get bored doing that). And the feedback loop is insanely powerful! Oh, wow.
I was lying in bed, picking it up again for the night, started reading my previous chapter again, when the endorphins and the motivation all kicked in. And I just had to share this here (and ping @callmedante). I'll try to describe it.
I usually don't read books so I haven't tried this in any of my previous language learning experiences, but damn: I started to re-read the first chapter, and my brain went "Wow, you're reading much faster than you did the first time around". Having already spent time understanding the story, I don't need to spend as long translating everything I'm unsure about in my head. And since the story is short and the chapters are only a few pages, it's very easy to reference for the brain, so the "images" associated with the words fly in quickly. This is my end goal, as I know this is how I need to think in order to be fluent, so it's great to actually practice exactly that so early in a language.
This, to some extent, is a hit I get from Duolingo as well but it's extremely different getting it from an app with maybe at most 3 lines of text, vs getting it from a whole chapter of a book.
I can also see how I could have been doing this 2-3 weeks ago instead of now. I wonder how different the effect would have been. I'll definitely try it earlier when I get to learning Spanish (though.. idk, I will likely have an easier time with spanish; Russian is just much further away from my other current languages).
The script being non-latin also amplifies the hit. I learned cyrillic a long time ago, so I imagine it's not "as" powerful as it would otherwise be, but still i get that fuzzy feeling of "hey, I'm quickly reading all these squiggles".
The past week has been especially revelatory. I am starting to understand certain .. oddities in behaviour I've kept encountering in Russian speakers, without really being able to put my finger on it before. And today, I was having dinner and my date actually made an english mistake and corrected herself, and I immediately knew why she made the mistake. It was very satisfying.
Oh man. Tempted to start journaling the language learning on Tildes; would somebody be interested?
This sounds pretty similar to LingQ!
I am. Maybe we should try a weekly thread on language learning since it seems there is a handful of us actively trying to learn
I'm currently learning Ukrainian so I would be interested to see your progress from the Russian-learning perspective. I am currently using DuoLingo, Pimsleur, LingQ, and UkrainianLessons podcast.
My fiancée and I are learning Hebrew with Rosetta stone; I would happily join in on a weekly language learning thread!
Ah yes please let me know how that goes. Is Ukrainian your first Cyrillic language? What else do you speak?
I was very motivated learning Ukrainian, unfortunately my now-ex seldom spoke it day to day and wasn’t particularly encouraging me. And I had found very little quality material for it :/
I did notice that my Ukrainian comprehension level has greatly increased since restarting Russian. More than I expected it to. But then again, a lot of my Twitter feed is in Ukrainian so i might just be passively picking up some of it too.
I’m down for a somewhat regular language learning thread. I know @ThatFanficGuy is currently learning French (and I think @cfabbro could use the motivation there as well). Feel free to create one and I’ll write some initial thoughts tomorrow!
Yes, it my first Cyrillic language. I only speak English, but was in the disastrous, required public education system of three years of Spanish where I came away not being able to speak Spanish. Fortunately, I have made some online friends that are Ukrainian and that is a big motivating factor to me learning. Plus, all my material was free.
I will create one tomorrow)
Created a thread: https://tildes.net/~humanities/11oo/language_learning_thread_share_your_tips_progress_and_questions
cc @ThatFanficGuy, @callmedante and @smores
There is absolutely nothing in the word like the joy of communicating with a native speaker on a regular basis, having them witness your progress and encourage you throughout.
This is so encouraging. I'm going to look into these books, because Duolingo is only so helpful, and their monetization strategy sometimes really gets on my nerves and interferes with my learning. Thank you for sharing your experience!
I use duolingo a little differently to most: I exclusively use tests to unlock levels. This forces me to "reverse engineer" the meaning of words, in a way that is very similar to what Olly Richards recommends doing with reading, and I independently found it to be extremely helpful.