This is much more effective IMO than retaliating by actually burning those books. It's a powerful statement that reframes the conversation beyond a back-and-forth fight over free speech by...
Exemplary
This is much more effective IMO than retaliating by actually burning those books. It's a powerful statement that reframes the conversation beyond a back-and-forth fight over free speech by considering the harmful, polarizing effect this controversy has had on all of these communities. Hopefully the majority of people in Sweden feel the same.
Speaking ahead of the latest planned burning, Israeli President Isaac Herzog described it as an act of "pure hate."
"As the president of the state of Israel, I condemned the burning of the Quran, sacred to Muslims the world over, and I am now heartbroken that the same fate awaits a Jewish Bible, the eternal book of the Jewish people," Herzog said on Friday.
"Permitting the defacement of sacred texts is not an exercise in freedom of expression, it is blatant incitement and an act of pure hate," Herzog said. "The whole world must join together in clearly condemning this repulsive act."
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wrote on Twitter, "The State of Israel takes this shameful decision, which harms the Holy of Holies of the Jewish people, very seriously."
Yaakov Hagoel, chairman of the World Zionist Organization, said granting the permit for the burning of a Torah was "not freedom of expression but antisemitism."
The European Jewish Congress also issued a condemnation, saying that "provocative, racist, antisemitic and sickening acts such as these have no place in any civilized society."
Somehow I doubt the social media fearmongering about "theocracies taking away the Swedish people's freedoms" extends to criticism by non-Muslim countries. Additionally, this article's explanation of how the Swedish government has responded to the actual book-burning seems pretty anodyne and not repressive of its citizens' free speech in the least.
Meta related, the thing that makes me frustrated about this whole mess is that this topic is likely to vanish, due to being a more reasonable take on the issue. And the other ones that were posted...
Meta related, the thing that makes me frustrated about this whole mess is that this topic is likely to vanish, due to being a more reasonable take on the issue. And the other ones that were posted are likely to just keep getting pushed to back the top due to people arguing in them.
p.s. As for my own opinion on burning holy texts, a quote from Big Lebowski comes to mind: "You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole."
Like, yeah okay, you have the freedom to burn the Quran, Bible, or Torah, or whatever in your country. But just because you have that right doesn't mean actually doing it, and inciting half the world, is a good thing. And I think it's also worth pointing out that the person who originally started this whole mess in Sweden is a journalist connected to Russia (shocked Pikachu face):
I also think it's blindingly obvious in most of these discussions about free speech that the vast majority of people bringing it up are from the United States. Other countries don't have the same...
I also think it's blindingly obvious in most of these discussions about free speech that the vast majority of people bringing it up are from the United States. Other countries don't have the same laws and certainly aren't bound to respect the same pop-culture idea of "free speech" that isn't even legally accurate in the United States. Full disclosure and all that, I'm an American too, but it's like these cultural assumptions are everywhere online once you start noticing them.
Learning that this guy is a journalist with ties to Russia really puts a wrinkle in this whole narrative too. Considering how Turkey's ire over a similar incident almost derailed Swedish entry into NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of a broader effort to peel away Muslim-majority countries from the US by encouraging far-right demagoguery.
Turkey should probably reorient itself re: its priorities, because they have way bigger things to worry about than some guy thousands of kms away burning a crappy book.
Turkey should probably reorient itself re: its priorities, because they have way bigger things to worry about than some guy thousands of kms away burning a crappy book.
This is part of the problem. It's not a crappy book to them. You have the right to burn it in Sweden, but the flippancy doesn't portray the act as an act of free speech. Just an asshole thing to do.
This is part of the problem. It's not a crappy book to them. You have the right to burn it in Sweden, but the flippancy doesn't portray the act as an act of free speech. Just an asshole thing to do.
I mean if someone has to burn a book, I'd rather have them burn a common fantasy novel than some rare, unique or truly insightful and hard-to-get one. Religious texts at least are easy to replace....
I mean if someone has to burn a book, I'd rather have them burn a common fantasy novel than some rare, unique or truly insightful and hard-to-get one. Religious texts at least are easy to replace.
But as you say, the issue is more, you shouldn't be burning a book in the first place!
I think it's also pretty telling that one of the Quran burnings was essentially right in front of a mosque on a Muslim holiday. It's not just expressing your opinion then imo, it's an attenpt to...
I think it's also pretty telling that one of the Quran burnings was essentially right in front of a mosque on a Muslim holiday. It's not just expressing your opinion then imo, it's an attenpt to intimidate/threaten Muslims in your community (and country as a whole).
Worth pointing out that the current protests in Iraq are due to a Quran burning in the last few weeks, while the burning supported by the journalist with ties with Russia occurred in January. Not...
But just because you have that right doesn't mean actually doing it, and inciting half the world, is a good thing. And I think it's also worth pointing out that the person who originally started this whole mess in Sweden is a journalist connected to Russia (shocked Pikachu face):
Worth pointing out that the current protests in Iraq are due to a Quran burning in the last few weeks, while the burning supported by the journalist with ties with Russia occurred in January. Not saying that it wasn't controversial (Turkey in particular have used that burning extensively during NATO negotiations; while not really my area of study as far as international relations go, it was an interesting negotiation), or that the January burning didn't influence the recent one; I just think its helpful to have the added context.
Haha, this is classic Israeli politics. Weak statements of support against burning the Quran, but as soon as someone threatens the Torah, it's a "sickening act with no place in civilized society."...
Haha, this is classic Israeli politics. Weak statements of support against burning the Quran, but as soon as someone threatens the Torah, it's a "sickening act with no place in civilized society."
The amount of people I've come across in Israel who think it's fine that they're burning Quran's in Sweden is ridiculous. It's not the burning in and of itself, it's the fact that they're doing it specifically to make the immigrants feel unwelcome. There's a documentary out there where a server in one of their conferences is Muslim but "passes" as Scandinavian, so no-one has an issue with him.
I really commend the man in the article. It's a powerful message, and even if it disappears from mainstream media, I think it's important that we as people learn from his approach. Continuing to spread hate, even if it's in response to others' hate, will only lead to escelation. We have to, as a whole, be better.
Yes, this is a very important distinction. I think that there are contexts in which book burnings are 'acceptable'. I think that burning the book of mormon to protest the church's involvement in...
It's not the burning in and of itself, it's the fact that they're doing it specifically to make the immigrants feel unwelcome.
Yes, this is a very important distinction.
I think that there are contexts in which book burnings are 'acceptable'. I think that burning the book of mormon to protest the church's involvement in the media campaign to pass Prop 8 is a pretty good example since, for the most part, it's condemning a fairly specific group of people for concrete actions.
The thing is, though, that the vast majority of burnings are done for pretty negative reasons that are fueled by hate. Even that example of mormon book burnings was motivated by hate (I have a hard time believing they were thinking "this is a positive message that will change their minds!"). Often it's because they hate the contents of the book itself; think of all the people who burned Harry Potter books thinking they were satanic. Hate has a place, but it's more often misguided than not.
This is much more effective IMO than retaliating by actually burning those books. It's a powerful statement that reframes the conversation beyond a back-and-forth fight over free speech by considering the harmful, polarizing effect this controversy has had on all of these communities. Hopefully the majority of people in Sweden feel the same.
Somehow I doubt the social media fearmongering about "theocracies taking away the Swedish people's freedoms" extends to criticism by non-Muslim countries. Additionally, this article's explanation of how the Swedish government has responded to the actual book-burning seems pretty anodyne and not repressive of its citizens' free speech in the least.
Meta related, the thing that makes me frustrated about this whole mess is that this topic is likely to vanish, due to being a more reasonable take on the issue. And the other ones that were posted are likely to just keep getting pushed to back the top due to people arguing in them.
p.s. As for my own opinion on burning holy texts, a quote from Big Lebowski comes to mind: "You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole."
Like, yeah okay, you have the freedom to burn the Quran, Bible, or Torah, or whatever in your country. But just because you have that right doesn't mean actually doing it, and inciting half the world, is a good thing. And I think it's also worth pointing out that the person who originally started this whole mess in Sweden is a journalist connected to Russia (shocked Pikachu face):
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/27/burning-of-quran-in-stockholm-funded-by-journalist-with-kremlin-ties-sweden-nato-russia
I also think it's blindingly obvious in most of these discussions about free speech that the vast majority of people bringing it up are from the United States. Other countries don't have the same laws and certainly aren't bound to respect the same pop-culture idea of "free speech" that isn't even legally accurate in the United States. Full disclosure and all that, I'm an American too, but it's like these cultural assumptions are everywhere online once you start noticing them.
Learning that this guy is a journalist with ties to Russia really puts a wrinkle in this whole narrative too. Considering how Turkey's ire over a similar incident almost derailed Swedish entry into NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of a broader effort to peel away Muslim-majority countries from the US by encouraging far-right demagoguery.
Turkey should probably reorient itself re: its priorities, because they have way bigger things to worry about than some guy thousands of kms away burning a crappy book.
This is part of the problem. It's not a crappy book to them. You have the right to burn it in Sweden, but the flippancy doesn't portray the act as an act of free speech. Just an asshole thing to do.
I mean if someone has to burn a book, I'd rather have them burn a common fantasy novel than some rare, unique or truly insightful and hard-to-get one. Religious texts at least are easy to replace.
But as you say, the issue is more, you shouldn't be burning a book in the first place!
I think it's also pretty telling that one of the Quran burnings was essentially right in front of a mosque on a Muslim holiday. It's not just expressing your opinion then imo, it's an attenpt to intimidate/threaten Muslims in your community (and country as a whole).
Worth pointing out that the current protests in Iraq are due to a Quran burning in the last few weeks, while the burning supported by the journalist with ties with Russia occurred in January. Not saying that it wasn't controversial (Turkey in particular have used that burning extensively during NATO negotiations; while not really my area of study as far as international relations go, it was an interesting negotiation), or that the January burning didn't influence the recent one; I just think its helpful to have the added context.
Haha, this is classic Israeli politics. Weak statements of support against burning the Quran, but as soon as someone threatens the Torah, it's a "sickening act with no place in civilized society."
The amount of people I've come across in Israel who think it's fine that they're burning Quran's in Sweden is ridiculous. It's not the burning in and of itself, it's the fact that they're doing it specifically to make the immigrants feel unwelcome. There's a documentary out there where a server in one of their conferences is Muslim but "passes" as Scandinavian, so no-one has an issue with him.
I really commend the man in the article. It's a powerful message, and even if it disappears from mainstream media, I think it's important that we as people learn from his approach. Continuing to spread hate, even if it's in response to others' hate, will only lead to escelation. We have to, as a whole, be better.
Yes, this is a very important distinction.
I think that there are contexts in which book burnings are 'acceptable'. I think that burning the book of mormon to protest the church's involvement in the media campaign to pass Prop 8 is a pretty good example since, for the most part, it's condemning a fairly specific group of people for concrete actions.
The thing is, though, that the vast majority of burnings are done for pretty negative reasons that are fueled by hate. Even that example of mormon book burnings was motivated by hate (I have a hard time believing they were thinking "this is a positive message that will change their minds!"). Often it's because they hate the contents of the book itself; think of all the people who burned Harry Potter books thinking they were satanic. Hate has a place, but it's more often misguided than not.