13 votes

Pope Francis calls for the decriminalization of homosexuality worldwide

6 comments

  1. [4]
    aphoenix
    Link
    This pope is doing a lot of work to try to bring The Church into the current century and update their beliefs. He catches a lot of flack from non-catholics for not doing more, but the resistance...

    This pope is doing a lot of work to try to bring The Church into the current century and update their beliefs. He catches a lot of flack from non-catholics for not doing more, but the resistance to even the small steps he has taken is enormous, and the number of people who say things like, "not my pope!" without understanding how disconnected that is from everything they claim to hold dear is astonishing. Watching someone try to explain papal infallibility is true while also saying that the pope is not correct in the same argument is one of those schadenfreud-y infuriatingly entertaining things to do.

    8 votes
    1. [2]
      TheRtRevKaiser
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      To be fair, there's a lot of debate about how and when a pope is believed to be infallible, but I think most Roman Catholic theologians generally consider it to be a very limited and rare set of...

      To be fair, there's a lot of debate about how and when a pope is believed to be infallible, but I think most Roman Catholic theologians generally consider it to be a very limited and rare set of situations.

      I'm glad Francis has continued to call for compassion, but this isn't an ex cathedra teaching and even if it was, it doesn't change RC theology of sexuality at all. I doubt it will move the conservative bishops an inch, and I suspect it'll just reinforce the rift between the pope and the conservative factions in the RCC. Not to mention the hardcore sedevacantists who don't even accept the legitimacy of modern popes.

      I should note that I'm not Roman Catholic so take all of this with a grain of salt. Just my understanding of the theology involved here as an outsider.

      4 votes
      1. aphoenix
        Link Parent
        I thought it was an ex cathedra proclamation just because he was sitting in a chair in the picture. It means from the chair, not from a chair! Latin jokes aside, talking about infallibility I was...

        I thought it was an ex cathedra proclamation just because he was sitting in a chair in the picture. It means from the chair, not from a chair!

        Latin jokes aside, talking about infallibility I was talking about a more general experience, and not this specific one, wherein some of my catholic family has taken the position that papal infallibility is real, this pope is wrong a lot, ergo he is not really the pope.

        I do broadly agree that this will do little to move conservative bishops, but my experience as someone who married into a huge catholic family is that this pope is really resonating with younger church goers (and by 'younger' I guess I mean 'my age and below' which is not particularly young as I am mid-40s), and is starting to help with retention of catholic youth. He has also made some headway with the more reasonable members of the church. While there are definitely rifts forming, with some of the stauncher conservative catholics on one side and the more reasonable catholics on the other, it's nice to have the pope be generally on the side that I consider reasonable, and not the side I consider right-wing nutbags.

        That said, while I know a lot of Catholics for one guy, I don't know a lot of Catholics in the grand scheme of things, so this is more anecdotal than anything else.

        4 votes
    2. Akir
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      To be perfectly frank, I'm a bit too jaded to have much hope about the positivity of the pope's actions. I mean, I'm always a little bit hopeful for a brighter future, but at the same time it's...

      To be perfectly frank, I'm a bit too jaded to have much hope about the positivity of the pope's actions. I mean, I'm always a little bit hopeful for a brighter future, but at the same time it's not something I'd make a bet on.

      I've talked to a lot of people about their beliefs and I have come to the conclusion that most people form their prejudices first and then use religion to support them, rather than the other way around. Christians tend to be the worst because the vast majority of them are not actually well versed in the Bible even in sects where they claim it to be the core of their religion and/or the literal word of God.

      Edit: All this being said, I do still applaud these actions; they are a seriously big deal.

      3 votes
  2. JXM
    Link
    Wow. This is a huge evolution in terms of Catholicism's views on homosexuality. It comes so close to acknowledging that it isn't a choice, but something else. It's a small start toward a more...

    “And being homosexual is not a crime,” he said again. “It’s a human condition.”

    Wow. This is a huge evolution in terms of Catholicism's views on homosexuality. It comes so close to acknowledging that it isn't a choice, but something else. It's a small start toward a more accepting religion.

    7 votes
  3. Arshan
    Link
    This quote reveals the actual importance of this issue to Pope Francis. "Oh, it just never came up in the last 10 years I've been pope." So it's really not important to you, huh? Yeah, LGBTQ+...

    As for why these statements are coming out now: According to the AP, Francis has simply never been asked in an interview before. “Francis willingly responded, citing even the statistics about the number of countries where homosexuality is criminalized,” the AP reported.

    This quote reveals the actual importance of this issue to Pope Francis. "Oh, it just never came up in the last 10 years I've been pope." So it's really not important to you, huh? Yeah, LGBTQ+ rights never come up in relation to the Catholic Church...

    Imagine this was anyone but a massive religious leader saying this, maybe a politician or a celebrity, how would it be viewed? Like yeah, being homosexual shouldn't be a crime, do you expect to be praised for this? And you still believe that if they ever act on their perfectly natural and god-created nature they will suffer eternal torment? Show me when he sends real resources to support changing these laws or providing real support to people imprisoned for it; if the Catholic Church does that, I'll applaud them then and only then.

    3 votes