13 votes

Why are AMAB trans people denied the closet?

9 comments

  1. [2]
    Gaywallet
    Link
    There's a fantastic point about privilege observed through a lens through which it typically isn't- intersectionality. I think this is because most of the time people versed in intersectionality...
    • Exemplary

    There's a fantastic point about privilege observed through a lens through which it typically isn't- intersectionality. I think this is because most of the time people versed in intersectionality are those who are intersectional with at least one minority group and intersectionality is a way to make space for the different experiences we all have. The quote highlights how this plays out for some trans women:

    this ignores many other axes of privilege (e.g., white privilege, middle/upper-class privilege, able-bodied privilege), some of which also impact gender and sexuality (e.g., heterosexual privilege, monosexual privilege, masculine privilege, and of course, cisgender privilege).

    What I wish Julia had spent a bit more time on, but she alludes to in other places, is how the absence of some of these fundamentally shape the trans female experience when they transition later in life. When someone is knowingly in the closet, they're not only just shaping the way they present in life, but it's fairly rare for them to not be an intersectional minority because they are not masculine in their appearance or demeanor. This may come from true presentation or may come from appearance - many of these individuals are not heterosexual, often have many female friends, or are more in touch with their emotions. These are all ways for men to fall down the pecking order, so to speak, and for society to discriminate against them and prevent them from accessing privilege. Trans men often experience this in reverse, where they start to acquire certain kinds of privilege but are denied others because they are shorter, not as physically fit, or still perceived as female or feminine in some fashion.

    She does spend some time talking about how the tension between perception and identity caused her serious distress, something which simply googling the term 'gender dysphoria' can give a sense of understanding. The fact that gender dysphoria is a medical diagnosis for which there are a large number of medical interventions and the fact that alleviating dysphoria or providing support can reduce suicidality in trans people down to levels in the cisgender population should hopefully be enough to underscore the importance and serious distress that it can cause. Even on Tildes I've seen people talk about trans women as 'experiencing male privilege before transitioning', ignoring the experience outlined in this article and the harrowing statistics on transgender suicide rates. With that being said, she rightly pivots to talking about how this narrative erases her identity and makes her much more invisible - by focusing on who society perceived her as, rather than who she is, we're explicitly denying her reality and refusing to see her the way she wants to be seen.

    It strikes me as odd, this focus on the past. There are a few other ways in which we do this in society, the most prescient example for which I can think of is for people who used to be in prison. We call them convicts, felons, etc. and ignore that this experience was supposed to change them. In fact, when they do change, this still follows them around in perpetuity and denies them job opportunities and allows others to judge them without knowing them. However, we don't hold this same opinion for ways in which people reform and change. If someone was an ex-adulterer, we don't focus our entire conversation on how they used to cheat on partners. If someone used to suffer from depression or gambling we celebrate that they no longer do. In fact, we even hold space for these individuals to ensure they can live their changed reality - we offer them support so that they don't gamble or fall back into depression. Where is this support for trans people? Instead of support, the common narrative seems to be to doubt their existence or invalidate their experience or downplay their struggles. Why is destruction, rather than support where many turn to? Is there something special or threatening about transgender people that isn't present in other groups where we do offer support and don't focus on their past? I'm not sure that I have any answers, but I hope that others might read this and reflect upon this and change their behavior to be more compassionate in the future.

    7 votes
    1. skybrian
      Link Parent
      This is just a side point since I'm not competent to talk about trans issues, but here's another way society will focus on a person's past: whenever you apply for a job, they ask for a resume,...

      This is just a side point since I'm not competent to talk about trans issues, but here's another way society will focus on a person's past: whenever you apply for a job, they ask for a resume, which should list previous work experience. If they're strict about it in a job application, they ask you to "explain any gaps." They may want to know any previous names you used, for background checks. If it's a high-trust job they can be pretty thorough.

      There are also credit reports when you apply for a loan. Googling people you meet isn't that unusual either. It's quite common to ask people where they are from, and at some point in a relationship, people will usually want to meet your family, which often relates to your past.

      Of course you're more anonymous in a big city, and in the movies, at least, there is also a dramatic notion of a "a stranger comes to town with a mysterious past."

      2 votes
  2. hadrian
    Link
    This is a fantastic article. I just wanted to comment on the quote below, as a trans guy (and heads up that I'm going to be talking about attitudes I've seen that lead to transmisogyny - or are...

    This is a fantastic article. I just wanted to comment on the quote below, as a trans guy (and heads up that I'm going to be talking about attitudes I've seen that lead to transmisogyny - or are transmisogynistic themselves):

    Sometimes these AFAB/AMAB debates raise the specter of “male privilege” and the presumption that trans women and trans femmes either continue to benefit from it, and/or exert it in intracommunity discussions and spaces. It strikes me as bizarre that any trans male/masculine person would wield this accusation at us, given that they too are susceptible to it.

    I think that when you see transmasculine people engage in this kind of transmisogyny, it often comes from a) a desire to acknowledge and discuss their own experiences pre-coming out, and b) a lack of awareness of an asymmetry in how it works for transmascs/transfemmes. a) is fine imo, but b) isn't.

    To cash it out, regarding a), many if not all trans guys have experienced misogyny before coming out. While I don't consider myself as having been a woman or a girl in the past, I do consider myself to have had what might broadly be called 'female experiences' (for lack of a better phrase). I was treated as a girl in school, a woman at work, went through misogyny and catcalling and worse, and so there are these social aspects where I do feel I relate to women in terms of experience. And that's something that so integral to who I am as a person, now, that I don't want to deny them or ignore them, or to have anyone say "Oh you didn't experience misogyny because you weren't actually a girl". I think that's very very common, although not universal, for AFAB trans people and I also don't think there's anything wrong with this perspective.

    The thing is, that some trans guys uncritically transpose this onto transfemmes/AMAB people/trans women, in a really damaging and transmisogynistic way. They think,

    "Well, since I had these 'female experiences', AMABs must have had 'male experiences', which includes male privilege. To deny that AMABs had male privilege would be also to deny that I experienced misogyny."

    But, the thing is that it's actually nuanced and asymmetrical. It's perfectly possible - and, in fact, true - that AFAB trans people have had experiences of misogyny and AMAB trans people haven't had experiences of male privilege. But you get these trans guys who don't realise or accept this, so falsely push this narrative of male privilege onto AMAB trans people/trans women.

    I'm sure this isn't the whole story, and I might well be getting some things wrong, but from my perspective it's a large part of it. I think a greater awareness of this asymmetry is what's needed among AFAB trans people/trans men, in order to get rid of much of the transmisogynistic beliefs and dialogue that are found in some of our communities.

    4 votes
  3. [4]
    TheRtRevKaiser
    Link
    Really excellent article from Julia Serano about how trans women and transfeminine people are often "mischaracterized as having 'had it easy' during our pre-transition years, with some imagining...

    Really excellent article from Julia Serano about how trans women and transfeminine people are often "mischaracterized as having 'had it easy' during our pre-transition years, with some imagining that we must have been 'basking' or 'reveling' in 'male privilege'", breaking down three biases that contribute to this misconception.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      Thrabalen
      Link Parent
      In my youth, I always felt like I was behind enemy lines... an imposter that the often toxically masculine teens and 20-somethings would have pounced on like a hyena spotting the slowest gazelle...

      In my youth, I always felt like I was behind enemy lines... an imposter that the often toxically masculine teens and 20-somethings would have pounced on like a hyena spotting the slowest gazelle of the herd.

      5 votes
      1. kfwyre
        Link Parent
        Not trans, just gay, but I use the exact same “behind enemy lines” feeling to describe what my closeted years were like. I was constantly worried that I would be discovered and that the...

        Not trans, just gay, but I use the exact same “behind enemy lines” feeling to describe what my closeted years were like. I was constantly worried that I would be discovered and that the consequences would be fatal.

        The other way I describe it was that I literally didn’t know what it felt like to not be anxious. I didn’t even know what anxiety was. It was the air around me, my oxygen — so commonplace as to be invisible, and so essential that I was never apart from it. I was in my 20s when I felt, for the first time in my life, the anxious undercurrent in my life go away, and it was life-changing. Up until that point, I thought everyone was just always afraid, all the time, and they were hiding it, because that’s what I had always known and lived.

        I don’t look back on my adolescence or teenage years with fondness. They were spent feeling constantly ashamed and afraid, and I had to expend constant energy to keep anyone from finding out. It was exhausting.

        Something that haunts me is that gender identity usually solidifies long before sexual orientation. I started to become aware something was different about me when I was 10, but trans people tend to come to know their gender identity much younger: often from 3 to 5. I simply cannot imagine having to go through the closeted hell I went through starting that young and going for that long. A decade in the closet literally nearly killed me at 20, whereas many trans people spend a decade in the closet before they enter high school.

        It devastates me to think about and affirms how critically important it is to support trans youth.

        8 votes
      2. TheRtRevKaiser
        Link Parent
        I can remember feeling a bit this in middle school, and I was just an awkward, nerdy kid that was a little less masculine than the other boys around me. It always felt like swimming with sharks to...

        I can remember feeling a bit this in middle school, and I was just an awkward, nerdy kid that was a little less masculine than the other boys around me. It always felt like swimming with sharks to me, like if I did the wrong thing to draw attention to myself it would start a feeding frenzy. I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it is for trans girls (really all LGBT kids) to navigate that environment, and so many do it without any support at home. It breaks my heart to think about it.

        4 votes
  4. mtset
    Link
    This is a great article, thank you for sharing.

    This is a great article, thank you for sharing.

    2 votes
  5. FeminalPanda
    Link
    I feel this, was called gay, or f word, even by my mom. Hanging out with other girls felt natural. Took me so long to understand myself as I was hiding my feelings just to fit in where I was told to.

    I feel this, was called gay, or f word, even by my mom. Hanging out with other girls felt natural. Took me so long to understand myself as I was hiding my feelings just to fit in where I was told to.

    2 votes