I wish I had the energy left to be angry about this. Instead I find myself just lying in bed crying because some kids I will never meet in a state I can never go to probably are feeling very very...
I wish I had the energy left to be angry about this. Instead I find myself just lying in bed crying because some kids I will never meet in a state I can never go to probably are feeling very very alone and very very scared right now and no one in the entire world with any amount of power cares enough about them to do anything other than occasionally deliver reassuring platitudes that act as increasingly cold comfort. Kids in Florida, Texas, Missouri, Indiana, Tennessee, etc. are dealing with one of the scariest, most confusing, most isolating illnesses there is and their government is banning the only form of available treatment. No one should have to live like that, but as conservatives in the US successfully implement their genocidal agenda, this will be the reality for more and more trans children and adults. I don't recognize this place anymore.
I was so greatful when I heard that the ban on affirming care in Arkansas was recently overturned by a federal district judge on all counts as violations of equal protection, due process and...
I was so greatful when I heard that the ban on affirming care in Arkansas was recently overturned by a federal district judge on all counts as violations of equal protection, due process and freedom of speech.
The judge found in favour of the plaintiff on all counts and set a great precident for overturning it in other states which I am hoping happens sooner than later for the sake of those living in those states.
I can't imagine what they and their families must be going through having to fight just for the right to exist.
Seems to be a worldwide phenomenom at this point... The UK doesn't prescribe blockers anymore either, as far as I'm aware. Denmark also doesn't, even turning 18-year olds away for being 'too...
Seems to be a worldwide phenomenom at this point... The UK doesn't prescribe blockers anymore either, as far as I'm aware.
Denmark also doesn't, even turning 18-year olds away for being 'too young'. No surgery if you're under 25 (or over 40) either. It's a moral panic and we are losing.
More or less same here. An acquaintance with autism was denied surgery because, according to the gatekeepers, it had become her special interest to get surgery. So now she can't get surgery,...
More or less same here. An acquaintance with autism was denied surgery because, according to the gatekeepers, it had become her special interest to get surgery. So now she can't get surgery, because she "wants it too much".
She is suicidal because of it. Gender clinics in this country continue to blow my mind...
Hi, you wrote that Even as a Dane, I didn't knew what the status were in Denmark, so I tried searching around. This article from 2020 says: (google translated) Another source from 2018 says: Do...
Hi, you wrote that
Denmark also doesn't, even turning 18-year olds away for being 'too young'. No surgery if you're under 25 (or over 40) either.
Even as a Dane, I didn't knew what the status were in Denmark, so I tried searching around. This article from 2020 says: (google translated)
At the beginning of puberty, treatment may be carried out with analogue gonadotropin-releasing hormone, so-called "stop hormone". This halts the development of primary and secondary sex characteristics until the patient can transition to treatment with estradiol or testosterone at the earliest at the age of 16.
Lower sex reassignment surgery is only performed on adults (i.e. persons aged 18 or over). Upper genital reassignment surgery is performed basically also only on adults, but can occur in very special cases on persons under 18 years of age.
Do you remember where you got your sources? It doesn't seem to fit with what I've found.
Exactly this. Just like how we are technically de juro pretty close to equal rights as cis-het people, but in reality we really aren't de facto equal. @Halfdan I totally understand your criticism!...
Exactly this. Just like how we are technically de juro pretty close to equal rights as cis-het people, but in reality we really aren't de facto equal.
@Halfdan I totally understand your criticism! But stuff from 2018 and 2020 is considerably outdated when it comes to specifically trans healthcare because of how public discourse and political pressure changes quite a lot of things very fast, especially when it comes to the Copenhagen gender clinic. Aalborg and Odense are smaller though, so more resilient and less gatekeepy. To get to your question: sources are first-hand accounts from r/transnord. I can't be bothered to find the threads right now, sorry, but you can go looking for yourself if you don't want to take this at face value which is fair by the way. But yeah there are multiple first-hand accounts from actual patients who had those things said to them in their consultations/meetings with their surgeon or psychologist and whatnot.
Edit: something extra that you didn't ask about but I'm gonna vent about it anyway: your first link is something authored by personnel at CKI in Copenhagen. I haven't read it at all but I want to tell you about some of the co-authors of it.
I had about 6 to 8 meetings with psychologist Malene Hilden, who multiple times "tested" me, doubting that I was really actually transgender, but I answered her questions the right way every time so apparently that satisfied her. I remember one time where she was like "okay that was pretty fast" as if I passed a quiz or something.
My ex had meetings with another author, Rikke Holmgaard. This was back in the SK days before the reform which turned it into CKI. This woman had back then rightly earned the nickname "the witch of SK" for being the most horrible person you would ever come into contact with during your transition. Back then my ex was asked by her whether she was attracted to children. Because being transgender = pedophilia, apparently?
A third author, Michael Vestergaard, is the surgeon who botched a trans man's bottom surgery so badly that he had to get it revised over 20 times and I don't think he's done yet. Here's an article about that. Other things that show his incompetence is him saying things like "I don't operate on healthy organs" as if that justifies denying a trans person much needed surgery. He supposedly has 2 assisting surgeons when performing bottom surgery, but they only do something like 5-10 per year. Meaning the entire country of Denmark sees 5-10 trans people undergo surgery per year, because Rigshospitalet has monopoly on the procedure for some reason. He is the one and only person that decides who gets surgery and who doesn't. He chooses to have such a tiny workload, he chooses to gatekeep who gets surgery and who don't. I don't even know a friend of a friend of a friend (etc) who's gotten surgery here in Denmark. Everybody with the means will go out of the country and pay out of pocket for bottom surgery because of how unattainable it is at home.
That last paragraph is horrifying. If someone got a surgery done so badly they need 20+ corrective surgeries to fix the problems caused by them, they should be barred from practicing medicine....
That last paragraph is horrifying. If someone got a surgery done so badly they need 20+ corrective surgeries to fix the problems caused by them, they should be barred from practicing medicine. Even laymen know that surgery is invasive and risky, and that is why most doctors only recommend surgery as a last resort for most things.
I just wanted to add, I know multiple trans men moving out of Denmark to Germany solely to get health care coverage somewhere where the surgeons are competent. They really don't want to move and...
I just wanted to add, I know multiple trans men moving out of Denmark to Germany solely to get health care coverage somewhere where the surgeons are competent. They really don't want to move and it means putting life on hold for 5 years or so.
Thanks for taking your time with this write-up. What a shit show. So it's not as much as problem with the system technically, the actual text of how things supposedly should go about, but more...
Thanks for taking your time with this write-up. What a shit show. So it's not as much as problem with the system technically, the actual text of how things supposedly should go about, but more about a bounch of weirdos in charge doing whatever the heck they want?
I remember seeing a TV broadcast where the parents of a trans kid complained about not being able to change CPR number to one befitting the kids gender. And I just figured that we must be doing fairy okay, if this could be a hot topic. Guess I was wrong. (not that changing CPR number doesn't matter, but it's not exactly the same as not getting medical care)
I think most CIS Danes idea of trans issues is more about what happens in the US, like toilet politics (can't believe I type that word unironically) and womens sport, while local issues are kind of overlooked. That's the case for me, at least, although I'm very unclear on what goes on where I live in general, so it could be that.
Well I do think it's a systemic problem when healthcare guidelines which are explicitly written out aren't actually being followed. And it's also a systemic problem when nothing changes after they...
Thanks for taking your time with this write-up. What a shit show. So it's not as much as problem with the system technically, the actual text of how things supposedly should go about, but more about a bounch of weirdos in charge doing whatever the heck they want?
Well I do think it's a systemic problem when healthcare guidelines which are explicitly written out aren't actually being followed. And it's also a systemic problem when nothing changes after they are called out: According to a very thorough report by the main LGBT+ org, it's definitely about a bunch of weirdos and systemic. I recommend reading the entire thing but it's really damn long, so there's a summary on page 56-57.
But I think the main takeaway is that patients feel "insecure, uneasy, and unhappy" with how they are treated at the clinic, but this is in my opinion completely separate from the "narrow legal and economic framework" that clinics are working with. The former is about being nice to patients, the latter is about how effective they can be. So yeah, it's definitely because of shitty individual clinicians as well as shitty funding and understaffing, which are of course both concerning. And as the report also mentions, they need to find out if they're actually competent enough to perform these surgeries.
One thing to keep in mind is that despite reforms (in 2017 I believe it was), it's the same staff working the Copenhagen clinic. They definitely changed for the better since then, but only a little bit, because they are completely set in their archaic ways and they have not left their awful attitudes behind, which the report also calls out: "In addition, LGBT+ Denmark calls for treatment centres to create internal guidelines for the tone, social and professional behaviour that therapists exhibit when meeting patients, so that they feel safe and recognised in their encounters with the Danish healthcare system"
I am of course very biased because of my and my friend's experiences with them, but I definitely feel that they are indeed a bunch of fucking weirdos...
I think most CIS Danes idea of trans issues is more about what happens in the US, like toilet politics (can't believe I type that word unironically) and womens sport, while local issues are kind of overlooked. That's the case for me, at least, although I'm very unclear on what goes on where I live in general, so it could be that.
I'm currently reading a book in which the author Shon Faye actually discusses exactly this phenomenon, but from a UK perspective. But I would say the same is true for Denmark - that yeah, the media coverage is either overblown in some cases about some things (like your example toilet politics lol), or understated or entirely absent when it comes to other things, like actual equal rights and equal access to healthcare as they also mention in the report I linked above. But it makes sense because outrage about drag queens converting children to Satanism is going to garner a lot more clicks and views than boring healthcare stuff about waiting lists and whatnot.
So the result is as you say that things are overlooked. When coverage is like this, it's unfortunately a given that most cis people will be misinformed or ignorant of how things actually are
I wish I had the energy left to be angry about this. Instead I find myself just lying in bed crying because some kids I will never meet in a state I can never go to probably are feeling very very alone and very very scared right now and no one in the entire world with any amount of power cares enough about them to do anything other than occasionally deliver reassuring platitudes that act as increasingly cold comfort. Kids in Florida, Texas, Missouri, Indiana, Tennessee, etc. are dealing with one of the scariest, most confusing, most isolating illnesses there is and their government is banning the only form of available treatment. No one should have to live like that, but as conservatives in the US successfully implement their genocidal agenda, this will be the reality for more and more trans children and adults. I don't recognize this place anymore.
I was so greatful when I heard that the ban on affirming care in Arkansas was recently overturned by a federal district judge on all counts as violations of equal protection, due process and freedom of speech.
The judge found in favour of the plaintiff on all counts and set a great precident for overturning it in other states which I am hoping happens sooner than later for the sake of those living in those states.
I can't imagine what they and their families must be going through having to fight just for the right to exist.
Seems to be a worldwide phenomenom at this point... The UK doesn't prescribe blockers anymore either, as far as I'm aware.
Denmark also doesn't, even turning 18-year olds away for being 'too young'. No surgery if you're under 25 (or over 40) either. It's a moral panic and we are losing.
Yeah, Missouri said if you're autistic you can't get trans related health care ever.
More or less same here. An acquaintance with autism was denied surgery because, according to the gatekeepers, it had become her special interest to get surgery. So now she can't get surgery, because she "wants it too much".
She is suicidal because of it. Gender clinics in this country continue to blow my mind...
Hi, you wrote that
Even as a Dane, I didn't knew what the status were in Denmark, so I tried searching around. This article from 2020 says: (google translated)
Another source from 2018 says:
Do you remember where you got your sources? It doesn't seem to fit with what I've found.
What is meant to happen is very different from what actually happens.
Exactly this. Just like how we are technically de juro pretty close to equal rights as cis-het people, but in reality we really aren't de facto equal.
@Halfdan I totally understand your criticism! But stuff from 2018 and 2020 is considerably outdated when it comes to specifically trans healthcare because of how public discourse and political pressure changes quite a lot of things very fast, especially when it comes to the Copenhagen gender clinic. Aalborg and Odense are smaller though, so more resilient and less gatekeepy. To get to your question: sources are first-hand accounts from r/transnord. I can't be bothered to find the threads right now, sorry, but you can go looking for yourself if you don't want to take this at face value which is fair by the way. But yeah there are multiple first-hand accounts from actual patients who had those things said to them in their consultations/meetings with their surgeon or psychologist and whatnot.
Edit: something extra that you didn't ask about but I'm gonna vent about it anyway: your first link is something authored by personnel at CKI in Copenhagen. I haven't read it at all but I want to tell you about some of the co-authors of it.
I had about 6 to 8 meetings with psychologist Malene Hilden, who multiple times "tested" me, doubting that I was really actually transgender, but I answered her questions the right way every time so apparently that satisfied her. I remember one time where she was like "okay that was pretty fast" as if I passed a quiz or something.
My ex had meetings with another author, Rikke Holmgaard. This was back in the SK days before the reform which turned it into CKI. This woman had back then rightly earned the nickname "the witch of SK" for being the most horrible person you would ever come into contact with during your transition. Back then my ex was asked by her whether she was attracted to children. Because being transgender = pedophilia, apparently?
A third author, Michael Vestergaard, is the surgeon who botched a trans man's bottom surgery so badly that he had to get it revised over 20 times and I don't think he's done yet. Here's an article about that. Other things that show his incompetence is him saying things like "I don't operate on healthy organs" as if that justifies denying a trans person much needed surgery. He supposedly has 2 assisting surgeons when performing bottom surgery, but they only do something like 5-10 per year. Meaning the entire country of Denmark sees 5-10 trans people undergo surgery per year, because Rigshospitalet has monopoly on the procedure for some reason. He is the one and only person that decides who gets surgery and who doesn't. He chooses to have such a tiny workload, he chooses to gatekeep who gets surgery and who don't. I don't even know a friend of a friend of a friend (etc) who's gotten surgery here in Denmark. Everybody with the means will go out of the country and pay out of pocket for bottom surgery because of how unattainable it is at home.
That last paragraph is horrifying. If someone got a surgery done so badly they need 20+ corrective surgeries to fix the problems caused by them, they should be barred from practicing medicine. Even laymen know that surgery is invasive and risky, and that is why most doctors only recommend surgery as a last resort for most things.
I just wanted to add, I know multiple trans men moving out of Denmark to Germany solely to get health care coverage somewhere where the surgeons are competent. They really don't want to move and it means putting life on hold for 5 years or so.
Thanks for taking your time with this write-up. What a shit show. So it's not as much as problem with the system technically, the actual text of how things supposedly should go about, but more about a bounch of weirdos in charge doing whatever the heck they want?
I remember seeing a TV broadcast where the parents of a trans kid complained about not being able to change CPR number to one befitting the kids gender. And I just figured that we must be doing fairy okay, if this could be a hot topic. Guess I was wrong. (not that changing CPR number doesn't matter, but it's not exactly the same as not getting medical care)
I think most CIS Danes idea of trans issues is more about what happens in the US, like toilet politics (can't believe I type that word unironically) and womens sport, while local issues are kind of overlooked. That's the case for me, at least, although I'm very unclear on what goes on where I live in general, so it could be that.
Well I do think it's a systemic problem when healthcare guidelines which are explicitly written out aren't actually being followed. And it's also a systemic problem when nothing changes after they are called out: According to a very thorough report by the main LGBT+ org, it's definitely about a bunch of weirdos and systemic. I recommend reading the entire thing but it's really damn long, so there's a summary on page 56-57.
But I think the main takeaway is that patients feel "insecure, uneasy, and unhappy" with how they are treated at the clinic, but this is in my opinion completely separate from the "narrow legal and economic framework" that clinics are working with. The former is about being nice to patients, the latter is about how effective they can be. So yeah, it's definitely because of shitty individual clinicians as well as shitty funding and understaffing, which are of course both concerning. And as the report also mentions, they need to find out if they're actually competent enough to perform these surgeries.
One thing to keep in mind is that despite reforms (in 2017 I believe it was), it's the same staff working the Copenhagen clinic. They definitely changed for the better since then, but only a little bit, because they are completely set in their archaic ways and they have not left their awful attitudes behind, which the report also calls out: "In addition, LGBT+ Denmark calls for treatment centres to create internal guidelines for the tone, social and professional behaviour that therapists exhibit when meeting patients, so that they feel safe and recognised in their encounters with the Danish healthcare system"
I am of course very biased because of my and my friend's experiences with them, but I definitely feel that they are indeed a bunch of fucking weirdos...
I'm currently reading a book in which the author Shon Faye actually discusses exactly this phenomenon, but from a UK perspective. But I would say the same is true for Denmark - that yeah, the media coverage is either overblown in some cases about some things (like your example toilet politics lol), or understated or entirely absent when it comes to other things, like actual equal rights and equal access to healthcare as they also mention in the report I linked above. But it makes sense because outrage about drag queens converting children to Satanism is going to garner a lot more clicks and views than boring healthcare stuff about waiting lists and whatnot.
So the result is as you say that things are overlooked. When coverage is like this, it's unfortunately a given that most cis people will be misinformed or ignorant of how things actually are