this is absolutely disqualifying for anyone who wants to hold a position of power in a community. the bare minimum I would expect here is for the moderator(s) in question to be removed. but I...
In one particular incident, the moderators of the Discord server engaged in a harassment campaign against a transgender user, including using their moderator privileges to edit the pronouns in their username from “they/she” to “who/cares”.
this is absolutely disqualifying for anyone who wants to hold a position of power in a community.
the bare minimum I would expect here is for the moderator(s) in question to be removed. but I don't think that would be sufficient, because the lead developer participates in and encourages the toxic behavior:
Following my email conversation with Vaxry, he appeared on a podcast to discuss toxicity in the Hyprland community. This quote from the interview clearly illustrates the attitude of the leadership:
[A trans person] joined the Discord server and made a big deal out of their pronouns [..] because they put their pronouns in their nickname and made a big deal out of them because people were referring to them as “he” [misgendering them], which, on the Internet, let’s be real, is the default. And so, one of the moderators changed the pronouns in their nickname to “who/cares”. […] Let’s be real, this isn’t like, calling someone the N-word or something.
sadly typical "there are no girls on the internet" bullshit. and a self-fulfilling prophecy, where you moderate a space that is hostile to anyone who isn't a cis man, and then hide behind "oh well it's fine to not be inclusive because it's all cis men anyway".
Hyprland is itself a fork / customization of DeVault's wlroots project. seems like it might be time for another fork, and for a migration of the community to an alternative that is better-run and more inclusive.
that would cause some amount of duplicated effort and wasted work, which would be a shame. there's an easy way to avoid that, which is for open-source maintainers to not be bigoted assholes in the first place.
I believe wlroots is just a library used by Hyprland (and sway, and a few other compositors as well). They may have customized wlr for their specific cases (I know they have their own fork of...
Hyprland is itself a fork / customization of DeVault's wlroots project. seems like it might be time for another fork, and for a migration of the community to an alternative that is better-run and more inclusive.
I believe wlroots is just a library used by Hyprland (and sway, and a few other compositors as well). They may have customized wlr for their specific cases (I know they have their own fork of xdg-desktop-portal-wlr which is a specific sub(?)component of wlr) but overall there isn't as much "duplicated effort" here as any other project using a library.
I definitely agree on Hyprland needing a community migration, and with the lead dev's compliance in all this I imagine a fork will end up being necessary.
(I used Hyprland for a brief period and it was rather nice. Glad I didn't end up needing to interact with the community though)
Drew is known for a lot of inflammatory posts in the past, but this one is well researched and thoughtful. It's great that he found a better voice, and is using it to speak up against hate. Of...
Drew is known for a lot of inflammatory posts in the past, but this one is well researched and thoughtful. It's great that he found a better voice, and is using it to speak up against hate.
It's so cool that sircmpwn has grown up. Like, genuinely heartening to see someone that I'm used to seeing just flame people for basically no reason decide to be Nice and Kind and try and kindly...
It's so cool that sircmpwn has grown up. Like, genuinely heartening to see someone that I'm used to seeing just flame people for basically no reason decide to be Nice and Kind and try and kindly explain to people why they should do it too.
Not very familiar with their UI. Is it the [flagged] in the title you're referring to? What does that do? Also, I don't think we should cast stones here. I'm sure Deimos and a few others more...
Of course, hacker news is silencing the post, because making biggots uncomfortable is against the ToS there.
Not very familiar with their UI. Is it the [flagged] in the title you're referring to? What does that do?
Also, I don't think we should cast stones here. I'm sure Deimos and a few others more involved with content moderation will assert that threads like that will turn into dumpster fires real quick and in a hurry, and nothing of value is lost by nuking the discussion from orbit. I wish we could have these discussions without the dumpster fires, but I also wouldn't want to be part of the fire crew putting out those fires.
From an unofficial documentation: This is not an active moderation decision, but user action pretty close to brigading. HN is unfortunately pandering to a population of fragile white men who...
flags act as a "super" downvote and enough flags will strongly reduce the rank of the submission, or kill it entirely (flagging is supposed to be used for submissions which break the site guidelines, but that isn't always the case in practice)
This is not an active moderation decision, but user action pretty close to brigading. HN is unfortunately pandering to a population of fragile white men who refuse to consider the idea that their success is due to privilege, not meritocracy. It is not dang actively moderating the submission, but choosing (or being told) to tolerate a long-running pattern of transphobic actions on this platform.
Warning: The text log (from Hyprland Discord) that Drew DeVault provided contains slurs. A point that ddv (Drew) has raised regarding Vaxry's response also highlights the disparity between the...
Warning: The text log (from Hyprland Discord) that Drew DeVault provided contains slurs.
A point that ddv (Drew) has raised regarding Vaxry's response also highlights the disparity between the latter's thoughts on handling a trans person causing a stir compared to a transphobe doing it.
The reply to that post displays so well the issue in these communities: The mere existence of trans and/or non-binary people to them is "political". Everyone should be "normal" (their cis male...
The reply to that post displays so well the issue in these communities:
why the f would they even discuss such matters in a tech project discord. Like if you want to discuss political, personal or other stuff, join communities that want to discuss that. I'm not particularly fond of those "in your face" folks. Like fine, have your opinion, but if I'm here to contribute some code, why would I want to be bothered by hungry kids in Africa or something irrelevant for me at that moment. Everything has its place and time...
The mere existence of trans and/or non-binary people to them is "political". Everyone should be "normal" (their cis male centric definition) unless it is "relevant".
Yep, white or political, man or political, christian or political. Republicans can talk about politics but if someone says something against, you're rocking the boat.
Yep, white or political, man or political, christian or political. Republicans can talk about politics but if someone says something against, you're rocking the boat.
This just makes me sad, because this is the same edgy humor rabbithole I was stuck in as a teen. It's very easy to laugh at minority groups that you know will get you a reaction, and it fills in a...
This just makes me sad, because this is the same edgy humor rabbithole I was stuck in as a teen. It's very easy to laugh at minority groups that you know will get you a reaction, and it fills in a void of belonging that only seems to be more prevalent nowadays. Really unfortunate that people don't take responsibility for their communities.
Not surprised. Plenty of Discord communities are "softly" anti-LGBT/anti-trans, where they wouldn't go out on a limb to go against hate speech but would be quick to ban the crap out of people for...
Not surprised. Plenty of Discord communities are "softly" anti-LGBT/anti-trans, where they wouldn't go out on a limb to go against hate speech but would be quick to ban the crap out of people for the most minute of antagonistic behavior towards anyone on the mod team.
I've been a generally happy user of Hyprland for a while, but I have not once engaged with the community outside of the wiki, a couple of GitHub issues, and a bit of the subreddit. I never came...
I've been a generally happy user of Hyprland for a while, but I have not once engaged with the community outside of the wiki, a couple of GitHub issues, and a bit of the subreddit. I never came across any toxic behaviour, but I haven't engaged with the "community" in any meaningful way. It makes me sad to think that I've been enjoying software that is helping these sorts of views to flourish, and that the developer is so completely disinterested in cultivating a welcoming community. I think I'll be retiring my use of Hyprland for a while.
The orange site's posting on this turned into the usual railing about wokeness, code of conducts, and anti trans complaints about pronouns. The tech geek community is at its best in part when it...
The orange site's posting on this turned into the usual railing about wokeness, code of conducts, and anti trans complaints about pronouns. The tech geek community is at its best in part when it accepts people who are not typical and encourages them for their differences. I'm always sad when I see it turn into a place of hate.
Yea, with the amount of furries and alt life people I have meet in government IT it's always a shock when tech forms are infested with alt right slime.
Yea, with the amount of furries and alt life people I have meet in government IT it's always a shock when tech forms are infested with alt right slime.
it's by design. dang is beholden to the people who own the site, and sama and pg are both just straddlng the ever shrinking line between technolibertarianism and corporatist fascism.
it's by design. dang is beholden to the people who own the site, and sama and pg are both just straddlng the ever shrinking line between technolibertarianism and corporatist fascism.
Agreed: sad but not surprising. I'm currently working at a YC company where employees are bullied while the founders turn a blind eye. I used to be a lot more productive in companies where I...
Agreed: sad but not surprising. I'm currently working at a YC company where employees are bullied while the founders turn a blind eye. I used to be a lot more productive in companies where I didn't have to worry about my safety.
I'm so sorry to hear this, it's so common in the startup space. That kind of constant nervousness absolutely destroys productivity but they'll never admit it and will bully you out or just fire...
I'm so sorry to hear this, it's so common in the startup space. That kind of constant nervousness absolutely destroys productivity but they'll never admit it and will bully you out or just fire you if you say anything.
this is absolutely disqualifying for anyone who wants to hold a position of power in a community.
the bare minimum I would expect here is for the moderator(s) in question to be removed. but I don't think that would be sufficient, because the lead developer participates in and encourages the toxic behavior:
sadly typical "there are no girls on the internet" bullshit. and a self-fulfilling prophecy, where you moderate a space that is hostile to anyone who isn't a cis man, and then hide behind "oh well it's fine to not be inclusive because it's all cis men anyway".
Hyprland is itself a fork / customization of DeVault's
wlrootsproject. seems like it might be time for another fork, and for a migration of the community to an alternative that is better-run and more inclusive.that would cause some amount of duplicated effort and wasted work, which would be a shame. there's an easy way to avoid that, which is for open-source maintainers to not be bigoted assholes in the first place.
I believe wlroots is just a library used by Hyprland (and sway, and a few other compositors as well). They may have customized wlr for their specific cases (I know they have their own fork of xdg-desktop-portal-wlr which is a specific sub(?)component of wlr) but overall there isn't as much "duplicated effort" here as any other project using a library.
I definitely agree on Hyprland needing a community migration, and with the lead dev's compliance in all this I imagine a fork will end up being necessary.
(I used Hyprland for a brief period and it was rather nice. Glad I didn't end up needing to interact with the community though)
Drew is known for a lot of inflammatory posts in the past, but this one is well researched and thoughtful. It's great that he found a better voice, and is using it to speak up against hate.
Of course, hacker news is silencing the post, because making biggots uncomfortable is against the ToS there.
It's so cool that sircmpwn has grown up. Like, genuinely heartening to see someone that I'm used to seeing just flame people for basically no reason decide to be Nice and Kind and try and kindly explain to people why they should do it too.
🫡
Not very familiar with their UI. Is it the [flagged] in the title you're referring to? What does that do?
Also, I don't think we should cast stones here. I'm sure Deimos and a few others more involved with content moderation will assert that threads like that will turn into dumpster fires real quick and in a hurry, and nothing of value is lost by nuking the discussion from orbit. I wish we could have these discussions without the dumpster fires, but I also wouldn't want to be part of the fire crew putting out those fires.
From an unofficial documentation:
This is not an active moderation decision, but user action pretty close to brigading. HN is unfortunately pandering to a population of fragile white men who refuse to consider the idea that their success is due to privilege, not meritocracy. It is not dang actively moderating the submission, but choosing (or being told) to tolerate a long-running pattern of transphobic actions on this platform.
Warning: The text log (from Hyprland Discord) that Drew DeVault provided contains slurs.
A point that ddv (Drew) has raised regarding Vaxry's response also highlights the disparity between the latter's thoughts on handling a trans person causing a stir compared to a transphobe doing it.
The reply to that post displays so well the issue in these communities:
The mere existence of trans and/or non-binary people to them is "political". Everyone should be "normal" (their cis male centric definition) unless it is "relevant".
Yep, white or political, man or political, christian or political. Republicans can talk about politics but if someone says something against, you're rocking the boat.
This just makes me sad, because this is the same edgy humor rabbithole I was stuck in as a teen. It's very easy to laugh at minority groups that you know will get you a reaction, and it fills in a void of belonging that only seems to be more prevalent nowadays. Really unfortunate that people don't take responsibility for their communities.
Not surprised. Plenty of Discord communities are "softly" anti-LGBT/anti-trans, where they wouldn't go out on a limb to go against hate speech but would be quick to ban the crap out of people for the most minute of antagonistic behavior towards anyone on the mod team.
I've been a generally happy user of Hyprland for a while, but I have not once engaged with the community outside of the wiki, a couple of GitHub issues, and a bit of the subreddit. I never came across any toxic behaviour, but I haven't engaged with the "community" in any meaningful way. It makes me sad to think that I've been enjoying software that is helping these sorts of views to flourish, and that the developer is so completely disinterested in cultivating a welcoming community. I think I'll be retiring my use of Hyprland for a while.
The orange site's posting on this turned into the usual railing about wokeness, code of conducts, and anti trans complaints about pronouns. The tech geek community is at its best in part when it accepts people who are not typical and encourages them for their differences. I'm always sad when I see it turn into a place of hate.
Yea, with the amount of furries and alt life people I have meet in government IT it's always a shock when tech forms are infested with alt right slime.
it's by design. dang is beholden to the people who own the site, and sama and pg are both just straddlng the ever shrinking line between technolibertarianism and corporatist fascism.
Agreed: sad but not surprising. I'm currently working at a YC company where employees are bullied while the founders turn a blind eye. I used to be a lot more productive in companies where I didn't have to worry about my safety.
Never interviewing with a YC company, ever.
I'm so sorry to hear this, it's so common in the startup space. That kind of constant nervousness absolutely destroys productivity but they'll never admit it and will bully you out or just fire you if you say anything.