29 votes

Siblings sentenced for imprisoning gay brother

Happened in Denmark, so article is in Danish. Put it into DeepL to translate important bits:

Four siblings, a brother and three sisters, were sentenced to prison by the Court in Glostrup on Friday for imprisoning their 26-year-old brother in September 2023.

The case began in the fall of 2023 when police broke into the family's apartment in Brøndby and found a 26-year-old man in a small broom cupboard.

In addition to imprisonment, all four will also be expelled from Denmark. The two oldest sisters will be banned from entering Denmark permanently, while the youngest sister and brother will be banned for a number of years. All four convicted siblings are Italian citizens and will therefore be deported to Italy. The siblings grew up in Sicily and have roots in Tunisia. They are Muslim, and according to the prosecution, their actions stem from that cultural background.

Specifically what happened to him can be read in this article. Translation collapsed because of gruesomeness:

**Content warning**: description of torture

On a Monday in September 2023, police broke into a dark storage room in a small apartment in Brøndby.

They found an emaciated young man lying on a thin mattress with nothing but a jug of water and a bucket in the corner.

The young man had been locked up here for 35 days. This is stated in the indictment in the case, which is expected to end on Friday.

According to the indictment, four siblings, three women and a man, kept their brother locked in a small locked room with no windows or light for over a month because he told them he was gay.

He was denied food or drink at times and forced to sleep on a thin, scabies-infested mattress and defecate in a bucket.

The young man only escaped after 35 days when a neighbor heard him crying for help and immediately called the police.

By then he had lost 14 kilos, had symptoms of scabies and several bruises from blows.


If anyone thinks this is too much to share then please let me know - I will delete the thread if it is. I did put the homophobia and downer tags though so hopefully everyone who do not wish to see this stuff have already filtered that. Just sharing because I'm shocked this can happen in Denmark.

20 comments

  1. Hobofarmer
    Link
    I don't really know what to say except "what the fuck?"

    I don't really know what to say except "what the fuck?"

    14 votes
  2. DefinitelyNotAFae
    Link
    I don't think this shouldn't be shared, it's rough, no doubt, but yeah. I think it's worth knowing that it can happen anywhere and with any one who has such confidence in the righteousness of...

    I don't think this shouldn't be shared, it's rough, no doubt, but yeah. I think it's worth knowing that it can happen anywhere and with any one who has such confidence in the righteousness of their worldviews that they're willing to torture someone to enforce them.

    12 votes
  3. [3]
    zestier
    Link
    In the similar cases I've seen, such as Shanda Vander Ark, it felt like there is never any remorse and a "I can't believe what the victim made me do to them" mentality. I know it's wrong of me,...

    In the similar cases I've seen, such as Shanda Vander Ark, it felt like there is never any remorse and a "I can't believe what the victim made me do to them" mentality. I know it's wrong of me, but it makes me wish for more creative punishments. Specifically I've been skeptical that anything short of putting them in the same situation would make these kinds of people comprehend what they've done.

    9 votes
    1. [2]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      That comes at the expense of making the society behind such a punishment complicit in what it says is wrong. It's hypocrisy. But such guard rails on the judicial system make me think the ideal...

      That comes at the expense of making the society behind such a punishment complicit in what it says is wrong. It's hypocrisy. But such guard rails on the judicial system make me think the ideal sentence is life in prison with a slim chance for parole.

      7 votes
      1. zestier
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I think my feeling that way isn't even so much about justice or retribution, but to force something resembling empathy via a literal "putting in shoes" rather than the metaphorical one they seem...

        I think my feeling that way isn't even so much about justice or retribution, but to force something resembling empathy via a literal "putting in shoes" rather than the metaphorical one they seem incapable of. I don't know enough about this case in particular, but I watched a lot of the Shanda Vander Ark trial footage and all throughout she seemed to still think she's the victim for being prosecuted. She doesn't seem capable of comprehending how horrific the life she put her son through was. And I don't think she ever will. The translated article has the siblings suggesting that torturing him was for his own good so it makes me feel they're in a similar boat of not getting why it is wrong.

        But yeah, I know its wrong. In the same way as I don't believe in the death penalty even for murderers.

        8 votes
  4. [15]
    JXM
    Link
    How long were they sentenced to? That’s missing from the translation and seems kind of important. Hopefully for quite a long time.

    How long were they sentenced to? That’s missing from the translation and seems kind of important. Hopefully for quite a long time.

    5 votes
    1. [14]
      DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      The US has particularly long sentences, so this is less than will "feel" right but I think it's likely correct. The brother described almost an "exorcism" which wouldn't be the first time people...

      The convicted brother will receive a treatment sentence, while the three sisters will receive prison sentences of between one year and six months and up to three years and six months.

      The US has particularly long sentences, so this is less than will "feel" right but I think it's likely correct.

      The brother described almost an "exorcism" which wouldn't be the first time people have tried to remove demons from queer people though violence

      Earlier article

      But all four siblings deny that homosexuality was the reason behind it. They have explained in court that it is instead about generally irresponsible behavior on the part of their brother.

      Yeah sure.

      (Used Google's automatic translation of the articles)

      9 votes
      1. [13]
        JXM
        Link Parent
        Thanks for the translation. I’m US based and that does seem like a light sentence to me. I tend to think that most sentences for crimes in the US are way, way too harsh but keeping someone in...

        Thanks for the translation.

        I’m US based and that does seem like a light sentence to me. I tend to think that most sentences for crimes in the US are way, way too harsh but keeping someone in those of conditions is awful without adding in the fact that it was a hate crime.

        It reminds me of the case of Genie.

        2 votes
        1. [12]
          smoontjes
          Link Parent
          It’s light to me too. We have extremely light sentences in general. “Life in prison” is 16 years lol There are also some to me awful cases of serial sexual violence where they get like 2 years. Or...

          It’s light to me too. We have extremely light sentences in general. “Life in prison” is 16 years lol

          There are also some to me awful cases of serial sexual violence where they get like 2 years. Or murders where they get 5 or 8 or so.

          But experts say that extreme sentences do not work, so I guess we have to trust that.. on the other hand, crimes like this? I don’t want to see these kinds of people rehabilitated. I want them behind bars away from the nonviolent population so that they can’t do harm to anyone ever again.

          2 votes
          1. [11]
            CannibalisticApple
            Link Parent
            I agree with the rehabilitation mindset, but there are some people who just can't be rehabilitated. Or at least, not in the timeframe these people will be incarcerated. This is a problem with...

            I agree with the rehabilitation mindset, but there are some people who just can't be rehabilitated. Or at least, not in the timeframe these people will be incarcerated. This is a problem with their total mindset and ideology. That's not some bad behavior you can correct in a short time, not without the people experiencing some life-altering epiphany that makes them want to change.

            1 vote
            1. [10]
              DefinitelyNotAFae
              Link Parent
              They're also being deported, so there's a secondary punishment happening here. Considering the US system mostly doesn't even try to change anyone's mind about anything, I'll at least give European...

              They're also being deported, so there's a secondary punishment happening here.

              Considering the US system mostly doesn't even try to change anyone's mind about anything, I'll at least give European systems credit for having more rehabilitation and less "you deserve to eat rats so you better appreciate the food you get"

              Personally I want criminal justice reform in the US so it'd be hypocritical of me to demand life sentences for things I just personally am pissed off by.

              (@smoontjes doesn't Denmark have indeterminate life sentences where they usually do get released at some point but it requires a parole hearing and exactly when they're released is based on their likelihood of recidivism? Give or take any politics around it at least?)

              4 votes
              1. [2]
                snowgoon
                Link Parent
                If you are found to be mentally unsound, you can be kept in an institution until a doctor says you are no longer a danger to society.

                If you are found to be mentally unsound, you can be kept in an institution until a doctor says you are no longer a danger to society.

                1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                  Link Parent
                  That is a separate thing - a "custodial" sentence I believe. I ended up on the wikipedia so I probably don't have everything straight, but I did see that you could be held longer on a life...

                  That is a separate thing - a "custodial" sentence I believe. I ended up on the wikipedia so I probably don't have everything straight, but I did see that you could be held longer on a life sentence, or shorter, with an average of 14 years . Which based on my experience working with murderers, for example, is probably enough for most of them.

                  1 vote
              2. [7]
                smoontjes
                Link Parent
                Deportations are not rare and happen a lot here. I do agree though that it is a secondary punishment, and in this case, deserved. Yes, however in the whole year of 2024 only 20 people were given...

                Deportations are not rare and happen a lot here.

                [...] foreign nationals who have been legally resident in Denmark for more than the last five years may be deported if they are sentenced to an unconditional sentence of either at least one year's imprisonment or at least six months' imprisonment for several criminal offenses, or if they have previously received an unconditional custodial sentence [...]

                I do agree though that it is a secondary punishment, and in this case, deserved.

                (@smoontjes doesn't Denmark have indeterminate life sentences where they usually do get released at some point but it requires a parole hearing and exactly when they're released is based on their likelihood of recidivism? Give or take any politics around it at least?)

                Yes, however in the whole year of 2024 only 20 people were given this sentence. 32 people from 2006-2014. 67 from 2015-2024. Source. I don't know about the "usually get released" though.

                It's similar to Norway's Anders Breivik which I think is the most famous example of it.

                1. [6]
                  DefinitelyNotAFae
                  Link Parent
                  Yeah it said the average was like 14 years and a few notables were held for more like 30ish. Brevik was indeed the most similar well known comparison It's incredibly rare in contrast with the US.

                  Yeah it said the average was like 14 years and a few notables were held for more like 30ish. Brevik was indeed the most similar well known comparison

                  It's incredibly rare in contrast with the US.

                  1. [5]
                    smoontjes
                    Link Parent
                    Found [this]. You're right, 13½ years on average. Lifetime sentence is minimum 12 years.

                    Found [this]. You're right, 13½ years on average. Lifetime sentence is minimum 12 years.

                    1. [4]
                      DefinitelyNotAFae
                      Link Parent
                      (the link didn't appear) I was operating off wikipedia so I'm sure your info is most accurate!

                      (the link didn't appear)
                      I was operating off wikipedia so I'm sure your info is most accurate!

                      1. [3]
                        smoontjes
                        Link Parent
                        Oh lol I forgot it. https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE16212578/forklaring-her-er-forskellen-paa-livstid-og-forvaring/

                        Oh lol I forgot it. https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE16212578/forklaring-her-er-forskellen-paa-livstid-og-forvaring/

                        In 2018, a response from the Public Prosecutor's Office to the Ministry of Justice showed, according to TV2, that prisoners sentenced to custody (Breivik-like, weird translation but not sure how else to) are imprisoned for an average of 13 years and six months.

                        Tidligst efter 12 år kan en livstidsfange blive prøveløsladt. Det er Kriminalforsorgen, der træffer afgørelsen efter indstilling fra fængslet, hvor den dømte afsoner.

                        1. [2]
                          DefinitelyNotAFae
                          Link Parent
                          Google used "pre-trial detention" as the translation.

                          In 2018, a response from the State Attorney to the Ministry of Justice, according to TV2, showed that detainees sentenced to pre-trial detention spend an average of 13 years and six months in prison

                          Google used "pre-trial detention" as the translation.

                          After three years of detention - and then once a year - the Danish Prison and Probation Service is obliged to decide whether the measure should continue.

                          • Detainees who have been found guilty of crimes punishable by up to life imprisonment can only be tested for eligibility for release after ten years.
                          1. smoontjes
                            Link Parent
                            Pre-trial detention is definitely not right either. Found this though, that's what it is, so mystery solved! 😅 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventive_detention

                            Pre-trial detention is definitely not right either. Found this though, that's what it is, so mystery solved! 😅

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventive_detention

                            1 vote