I like how she very clearly has no idea what the terms "cultural appropriation" or "pronouns" mean. If you don't know the words being used in a debate, why even bother taking a stance?
She went on to defend cis women who don’t want to be referred to using the “pronoun” cis
I like how she very clearly has no idea what the terms "cultural appropriation" or "pronouns" mean. If you don't know the words being used in a debate, why even bother taking a stance?
Because it's not about debate, it's about pandering to a transphobic base while sowing doubt among fence-sitters. She appropriates words used in feminist discourse to give herself an appearance of...
Because it's not about debate, it's about pandering to a transphobic base while sowing doubt among fence-sitters. She appropriates words used in feminist discourse to give herself an appearance of legitimacy.
Probably because she believes she is smarter than most people, and that by spreading her opinion she is informing others. Or at least, that seems to be the usual suspect.
If you don't know the words being used in a debate, why even bother taking a stance?
Probably because she believes she is smarter than most people, and that by spreading her opinion she is informing others.
Ugh, please don't speak on behalf of all cis women. As a cis woman, I happen to like the clarity it provides. Is that what being a woman means? Being in beauty pageants? I think it's kind of sad...
She went on to defend cis women who don’t want to be referred to using the “pronoun” cis—which is not a pronoun but an adjective meaning the opposite of trans.
Ugh, please don't speak on behalf of all cis women. As a cis woman, I happen to like the clarity it provides.
The biggest problem facing cis women is “their identity being stolen”, Devine wrote, pointing as an example to Ángela Ponce, who will this year be the first trans contestant in the Miss Universe pageant.
“If she wins the title, it will simply bolster the sexist case that men are better than women at everything, even being women,” wrote Devine.
Is that what being a woman means? Being in beauty pageants? I think it's kind of sad if your entire identity as a woman rests on how pretty you are.
Don't even get me started on the cultural appropriation bit. As a PoC, that bit is especially hard to swallow.
I really don't think this angle is that interesting as its a classic argument by trans-exclusionary feminists (TERF for short). This sort of "debate" has been going on for a while now. I'm not...
I really don't think this angle is that interesting as its a classic argument by trans-exclusionary feminists (TERF for short). This sort of "debate" has been going on for a while now. I'm not sure what valuable discussion there would be since the arguments boil down to "Trans women are women" versus "Trans women are men pretending to be women."
Agreed! As a trans person I don't find these kind of debates interesting. One side is arguing against my humanity, and that's not the sort of thing I think you can base a reasonable debate around.
Agreed! As a trans person I don't find these kind of debates interesting. One side is arguing against my humanity, and that's not the sort of thing I think you can base a reasonable debate around.
She would have really benefited in googling "cultural appropriation". It's the new buzz word, so what - she had to include it somewhere? I don't even know where to start... Maybe not completely...
She would have really benefited in googling "cultural appropriation". It's the new buzz word, so what - she had to include it somewhere? I don't even know where to start...
Maybe not completely true to its basic definition (culture - group of people with shared customs, ...), but I never thought of "women" as a culture.
And identifying as a women and being defined as a women are two different things. A title doesn't change who you are or how you identify. Everything else, as far as I'm concerned, is someone else's hang-ups.
Edit to add: As a cis-woman, my identify and worth is not at all diminished by welcoming more women.
It's weird how she respecets Ms. Ponce's pronouns yet her argument reveals that she still considers trans women to be men.
“If [Ángela Ponce] wins the title, it will simply bolster the sexist case that men are better than women at everything, even being women,” wrote Devine.
It's weird how she respecets Ms. Ponce's pronouns yet her argument reveals that she still considers trans women to be men.
It's possible that some sub-editor at the newspaper fixed up the pronouns to prevent the inevitable backlash. They've had that problem before when they've misgendered trans people in their paper.
It's possible that some sub-editor at the newspaper fixed up the pronouns to prevent the inevitable backlash. They've had that problem before when they've misgendered trans people in their paper.
When interviewed for an April 2007 article in The Australian about hate mail received by female columnists, Devine commented, "You are contesting ideas and you have to do it in a polarising way....
When interviewed for an April 2007 article in The Australian about hate mail received by female columnists, Devine commented, "You are contesting ideas and you have to do it in a polarising way. When you write a column, you can't sit on the fence".
I like how she very clearly has no idea what the terms "cultural appropriation" or "pronouns" mean. If you don't know the words being used in a debate, why even bother taking a stance?
Because it's not about debate, it's about pandering to a transphobic base while sowing doubt among fence-sitters. She appropriates words used in feminist discourse to give herself an appearance of legitimacy.
Probably because she believes she is smarter than most people, and that by spreading her opinion she is informing others.
Or at least, that seems to be the usual suspect.
Ugh, please don't speak on behalf of all cis women. As a cis woman, I happen to like the clarity it provides.
Is that what being a woman means? Being in beauty pageants? I think it's kind of sad if your entire identity as a woman rests on how pretty you are.
Don't even get me started on the cultural appropriation bit. As a PoC, that bit is especially hard to swallow.
No kidding right? She's speaking for a little over half the population of the world?
Turf out the TERFs!
I really don't think this angle is that interesting as its a classic argument by trans-exclusionary feminists (TERF for short). This sort of "debate" has been going on for a while now. I'm not sure what valuable discussion there would be since the arguments boil down to "Trans women are women" versus "Trans women are men pretending to be women."
Agreed! As a trans person I don't find these kind of debates interesting. One side is arguing against my humanity, and that's not the sort of thing I think you can base a reasonable debate around.
She would have really benefited in googling "cultural appropriation". It's the new buzz word, so what - she had to include it somewhere? I don't even know where to start...
Maybe not completely true to its basic definition (culture - group of people with shared customs, ...), but I never thought of "women" as a culture.
And identifying as a women and being defined as a women are two different things. A title doesn't change who you are or how you identify. Everything else, as far as I'm concerned, is someone else's hang-ups.
Edit to add: As a cis-woman, my identify and worth is not at all diminished by welcoming more women.
It's weird how she respecets Ms. Ponce's pronouns yet her argument reveals that she still considers trans women to be men.
It's possible that some sub-editor at the newspaper fixed up the pronouns to prevent the inevitable backlash. They've had that problem before when they've misgendered trans people in their paper.
That's very plausible, kudos to the editing team then.
cognitive dissonance
When interviewed for an April 2007 article in The Australian about hate mail received by female columnists, Devine commented, "You are contesting ideas and you have to do it in a polarising way. When you write a column, you can't sit on the fence".
She's a shit-stirrer.