Interesting site/directory. As, possibly the only?, resident blacksmithing individual here I can say that almost the entire blacksmith section is wrong.
Interesting site/directory.
As, possibly the only?, resident blacksmithing individual here I can say that almost the entire blacksmith section is wrong.
I had some skepticisms of the site since it spans such a wide variety of categories. My guess is that they used AI to create the seed data, so some categories are better than others. I think...
I had some skepticisms of the site since it spans such a wide variety of categories. My guess is that they used AI to create the seed data, so some categories are better than others. I think through time the site might get better as users actually vote on the entries. However, as it gets more popular it runs the risk of astroturfing.
I think the entire premise is silly. A product might be really popular in one place, yet not that popular in another. The website assumes that there is this one brand (or even model) of a tool...
I think the entire premise is silly. A product might be really popular in one place, yet not that popular in another. The website assumes that there is this one brand (or even model) of a tool everyone in an industry agrees on. While in reality people don't agree on much, and what they do agree on changes with time (as the quality of brands and products changes).
The anvil. It specifies the Nimba Centurion. That's a $2k 260lb anvil. I've seen one in my life and it wasn't even in an industrial setting at a professional blacksmith shop. Not the "industry...
The anvil. It specifies the Nimba Centurion. That's a $2k 260lb anvil. I've seen one in my life and it wasn't even in an industrial setting at a professional blacksmith shop. Not the "industry standard" or even standard in cottage industry or hobbyists.
Trip hammer. Was standard maybe 50-60+ years ago, wouldn't be seen in an industrial setting any longer.
Hand crank blower. While the Champion is the standard hand crank blower, no industrial setting is using coal and if they are they'll use an electric blower. Again, 50+ year old tech.
Supply catalog. No industrial setting is using Centaur Forge, it's the amazon of blacksmithing supplies. Little bit of everything, but not at industrial scale/pricing.
There is no blacksmithing standard for abrasive discs
Cross peen hammer. Not an industry standard as industrial blacksmiths are going to be picky about their hammers and more often than not make their own. Same with the tongs.
Propane forge. Industrial settings don't use small forges. That's a hobby forge.
Power hammer. That style of power hammer is standard, that brand is not.
Oh god... I just noticed there's an automotive section too. It is also very incorrect.
You're not the only one here, I'm an amateur but very much a blacksmith. I know there's been a couple others mentioned here as well but can't find the old comments with names. The problem I have...
You're not the only one here, I'm an amateur but very much a blacksmith. I know there's been a couple others mentioned here as well but can't find the old comments with names.
The problem I have with the blacksmithing section is that there isn't really a blacksmithing industry in the same way that there used to be. Industrially forged parts are going to be drop-forged or done using forges and power hammers at a scale that no consumer can afford to set up. I just don't see how the section could be both accurate for industry and useful at a consumer level. What we got instead is "options if you want to pick up the hobby", in which case it's mostly serviceable.
That said, I mostly agree with your critique. I'd say Centaur Forge is fine to have there, Ken's Custom Iron makes great tong kits (don't buy your tongs, make them!), and the inclusion of a propane forge is fine even though I don't think there's even a hobbyist standard.
I figured I wouldn't be, but hadn't seen anyone else mention it either. Howdy fellow hot and sweaty individual! It's not a huge industry, but it does exist. My blacksmithing mentor is a career...
I figured I wouldn't be, but hadn't seen anyone else mention it either. Howdy fellow hot and sweaty individual!
It's not a huge industry, but it does exist. My blacksmithing mentor is a career blacksmith at a professional blacksmith shop that turns out everything from railings and gates to mining equipment repairs and toolmaking.
Even if we scale it down to small shops that have a few employees turning out knives, hammers, and the like, none of the "industry standard" in that list is correct.
Admittedly, all of my personal experience and most of my instruction - both in-person and via video - has been through the lens of a one-man shop. Black Bear Forge and Nils Ogren are the only...
Admittedly, all of my personal experience and most of my instruction - both in-person and via video - has been through the lens of a one-man shop. Black Bear Forge and Nils Ogren are the only professionals I watch regularly that I'm aware of (I'm not sure if Torbjorn Ahman is a full-time blacksmith), and I don't think either of their setups are what I would consider "industrial". At this point I still dream of just a small shop like Nils recently moved out of, my setup is still small and portable by necessity.
As an aside, I dug back to old conversations to see who else was mentioned as a blacksmith here... it was you. So yeah, pretty small group.
This is definitely interesting, but it’s certainly very new based on the number of votes on things. I wish there were more details about who is running the site and when it was started though....
This is definitely interesting, but it’s certainly very new based on the number of votes on things.
I wish there were more details about who is running the site and when it was started though.
Also, the bit about the images “drawn” is a weird design decision to me, but I guess it works?
i'm not in a habit of having positive feelings towards many companies, but i adore mcmaster carr, tbh. what an absolute beauty of a website too. honestly i would order from there more often if i...
i'm not in a habit of having positive feelings towards many companies, but i adore mcmaster carr, tbh. what an absolute beauty of a website too. honestly i would order from there more often if i had more things i needed that i could get all at once.
the shipping price hurts if you just need one small inexpensive thing (it will be multiple times the cost of said small thing) which has always made me a bit less likely to order as often. makes more sense to bundle things up
though, i don't necessarily fault them for it- nearly every time i order, it arrives within 24-48 hours or so, so they're using some very fast shipping (or efficient warehouse placement) so i wouldn't expect them to absorb that cost and it does make for a very enjoyable/efficient ordering process so whatever project you're doing doesn't have to wait long for whatever parts you need
Agreed, they are one of the best. A little overpriced on most stuff really. shipping is usually 10-20$ per delivery for me. But its worth it for business stuff. I'm not sure what they are like in...
Agreed, they are one of the best. A little overpriced on most stuff really. shipping is usually 10-20$ per delivery for me. But its worth it for business stuff.
I'm not sure what they are like in other cities but here in Los Angeles they have a distribution hub that stocks most of the catalog. They contract with local independent delivery people. They do two rounds per day. So If I order something by 11 am the McMaster guy will show up around 1-4pm with it. Or if I'm in a real hurry I can drive out to the will call counter.
I order stuff several times a week. If I ever want to return anything I just put in a box and give it to the McMaster guy next time he's delivering. no shipping or RMA or anything. I just tell them its a return, they figure it out and reverse the charge.
Yeah sometimes there's some neat inexpensive things, but a lot of things do feel inflated in price. I figured it's partially because most customers are probably business customers, and I know...
Yeah sometimes there's some neat inexpensive things, but a lot of things do feel inflated in price. I figured it's partially because most customers are probably business customers, and I know business-to-business pricing isn't always so wonderful whenever regular consumers want in. Everything I've ordered has been top quality, though, so that's also part of it.
And, with good return policies, fast shipping, and just overall good service experience- I think they bake some of that cost into the product pricing too, which is fair.
It's super nice to be able to think to myself "I need some rubber feet or sound dampeners" or "would it be possible to get a sheet of <material> somewhere online reasonably?"... and most of the time the answer to those is McMaster
I’m guessing the illustration is to abstract the item away from any specific store listing since branding and labels can change over time or by where they’re sold.
I’m guessing the illustration is to abstract the item away from any specific store listing since branding and labels can change over time or by where they’re sold.
It's a funny list. I have a lot of experience in some of their categories and while I don't see anything I can really argue with, if you need this website to discover the Festool track saw, for...
It's a funny list. I have a lot of experience in some of their categories and while I don't see anything I can really argue with, if you need this website to discover the Festool track saw, for example, you probably should be buying a cheaper version by another manufacturer.
And the reality is that there often isn't a best or a standard. I'm in Makita land for battery systems, it's fine and I had my reasons for choosing it but I work with people in Milwaukee land and...
And the reality is that there often isn't a best or a standard. I'm in Makita land for battery systems, it's fine and I had my reasons for choosing it but I work with people in Milwaukee land and that's fine too. I'm reasonably wary of people who are dogged about these choices.
Yeah I kind of wondered about how it’s gonna end up handling cameras since photography has the same problem. You’re not gonna buy Nikon stuff if you have a Canon, and it’ll be a huge pain to...
Yeah I kind of wondered about how it’s gonna end up handling cameras since photography has the same problem. You’re not gonna buy Nikon stuff if you have a Canon, and it’ll be a huge pain to switch for not much benefit.
Similar with the audio world. The list currently for "recording and live sound" is pretty accurate, but I think it is because they did not go through all the categories. Something like wireless...
Similar with the audio world. The list currently for "recording and live sound" is pretty accurate, but I think it is because they did not go through all the categories. Something like wireless mics and IEMs, it is a toss up between Sennheiser and Shure, and the only thing is people pick one system for a show/venue and then stay consistent. Although choosing a Yamaha console is an interesting choice, since while Yamaha's are great, their "on" button rather than a "mute" button throws people off all the time if they are not familiar with Yamaha. At the higher end, it seems like Digico is the preferred brand
I have some doubts about the audio section. Imo Yamaha NS10 is just outdated and not very useful, most new studios do not buy them and shouldn't. Genelec monitors are surely correct, but they're...
I have some doubts about the audio section. Imo Yamaha NS10 is just outdated and not very useful, most new studios do not buy them and shouldn't. Genelec monitors are surely correct, but they're in a different list for some reason.
The list also reminded me that industry standard doesn't necessarily mean best. SM57 and SM58 undoubtedly are industry standard, but in my experience for some genres, especially quieter acoustic music their presence boost makes everything sound worse and they should be avoided. We moved to sE V7 for cheap secondary vocal/instrument microphones because they just sound better for our use case. And I am convinced that nobody actually needs a Neumann U87.
The website does not claim to be a "best gear" list, but I feel like people often don't realize the distinction at first.
Studio monitors were the one section that I was less aware of since I work in live audio. The Sony headphones as well are a bit debatable, since while that model is quite popular so is the...
Imo Yamaha NS10 is just outdated and not very useful, most new studios do not buy them and shouldn't. Genelec monitors are surely correct, but they're in a different list for some reason.
Studio monitors were the one section that I was less aware of since I work in live audio. The Sony headphones as well are a bit debatable, since while that model is quite popular so is the Sennheiser HD280s.
The list also reminded me that industry standard doesn't necessarily mean best. SM57 and SM58 undoubtedly are industry standard, but in my experience for some genres, especially quieter acoustic music their presence boost makes everything sound worse and they should be avoided. We moved to sE V7 for cheap secondary vocal/instrument microphones because they just sound better for our use case. And I am convinced that nobody actually needs a Neumann U87.
Yeah, I think there should be a bit more discussion on what "industry standard" means. The SM58 is the industry standard because it is cheap, durable, and sounds decent. If you are at an arena level concert, they are not using an SM58 on vocals. I was at a concert at a bar a year or so ago, and the main act was doing a small tour and he swapped out the SM58 used for the opener with his own mic (that he probably tours with). The advantage of a 58 is that every soundtech knows what to expect with them, so if they show up at a venue with a choice of vocal mics they might gravitate towards the 58s because of familiarity. Whereas, the U87 is considered the industry standard as it is the gold standard of mics. For a lot of situations it is not the ideal mic because it is so transparent. It will capture flaws in the room and also flaws in the performance. Sometimes you want a lower end mic that will smooth out some of the harsh points of a performance. Or a different mic will be chosen to add a specific tone to the recording.
I think in the discussion here, it has alluded to the issue of this site which is what does "industry standard" mean? I think there are several different meanings being used, and the site uses...
I think in the discussion here, it has alluded to the issue of this site which is what does "industry standard" mean? I think there are several different meanings being used, and the site uses them interchangeably without stating which one they are using. The several definitions are:
Price to performance is really good, so a lot of people in the industry use it.
It is the gold standard of the product category. Might not be the most used, but for the shops that can afford it they will try and have it.
At one point it was the best option in its category so it got widespread adoption. Now there are better competitors, but everyone already knows the first option so very few people switch. This one normally gets further entrenched with schools teaching people the older option because that is what most people are using.
I think this site is still interesting, and with it getting more popular it may get more accurate or gets astroturfed to be meaningless. I think defining industry standard would be a good next step though
At first I liked the site, but the more I've perused it and think about it, the more I think the entire idea is a bit flawed, and this goes along with what you're saying, where their definition of...
At first I liked the site, but the more I've perused it and think about it, the more I think the entire idea is a bit flawed, and this goes along with what you're saying, where their definition of industry standard really needs to be more clearly defined rather than something nebulous that seems to carry different meanings
I think naming the site this might have painted themselves into a bit of a corner, without adding a lot of caveats. I also think that the whole idea might give certain things (whether popular, or expensive, or whatever else) more credit or praise than they deserve- I think the nature of something simply being on this list (if a reader is passive enough to just accept it as an authority) can lend things on the list an undeserved reputation
I don't know if they intend for their lists to give an aura of "recommended" or "quality" or whatnot (though, it seems the site would be less useful if not?) but plenty of things that make the list aren't necessarily going to be the best value or even the best quality option. Plenty of business products common among various industries can be shitty and expensive, because of lack of competition, or otherwise. I've used lots of business garbage in my years. I'm sure there are lots of "standard" things used across the board that simply suck, or if they suit their purpose for a business, are an awful value or fit for a consumer
This is a neat directory. Is there a project or hobby you want to get into and trying to search for what equipment to buy is bewildering and full of review slop? This just shows you the good one....
This is a neat directory.
Is there a project or hobby you want to get into and trying to search for what equipment to buy is bewildering and full of review slop? This just shows you the good one. The one everyone who works in the field uses.
Interesting site/directory.
As, possibly the only?, resident blacksmithing individual here I can say that almost the entire blacksmith section is wrong.
I had some skepticisms of the site since it spans such a wide variety of categories. My guess is that they used AI to create the seed data, so some categories are better than others. I think through time the site might get better as users actually vote on the entries. However, as it gets more popular it runs the risk of astroturfing.
I think the entire premise is silly. A product might be really popular in one place, yet not that popular in another. The website assumes that there is this one brand (or even model) of a tool everyone in an industry agrees on. While in reality people don't agree on much, and what they do agree on changes with time (as the quality of brands and products changes).
Care to elaborate? What would you recommend instead?
Oh god... I just noticed there's an automotive section too. It is also very incorrect.
You're not the only one here, I'm an amateur but very much a blacksmith. I know there's been a couple others mentioned here as well but can't find the old comments with names.
The problem I have with the blacksmithing section is that there isn't really a blacksmithing industry in the same way that there used to be. Industrially forged parts are going to be drop-forged or done using forges and power hammers at a scale that no consumer can afford to set up. I just don't see how the section could be both accurate for industry and useful at a consumer level. What we got instead is "options if you want to pick up the hobby", in which case it's mostly serviceable.
That said, I mostly agree with your critique. I'd say Centaur Forge is fine to have there, Ken's Custom Iron makes great tong kits (don't buy your tongs, make them!), and the inclusion of a propane forge is fine even though I don't think there's even a hobbyist standard.
I figured I wouldn't be, but hadn't seen anyone else mention it either. Howdy fellow hot and sweaty individual!
It's not a huge industry, but it does exist. My blacksmithing mentor is a career blacksmith at a professional blacksmith shop that turns out everything from railings and gates to mining equipment repairs and toolmaking.
Even if we scale it down to small shops that have a few employees turning out knives, hammers, and the like, none of the "industry standard" in that list is correct.
Admittedly, all of my personal experience and most of my instruction - both in-person and via video - has been through the lens of a one-man shop. Black Bear Forge and Nils Ogren are the only professionals I watch regularly that I'm aware of (I'm not sure if Torbjorn Ahman is a full-time blacksmith), and I don't think either of their setups are what I would consider "industrial". At this point I still dream of just a small shop like Nils recently moved out of, my setup is still small and portable by necessity.
As an aside, I dug back to old conversations to see who else was mentioned as a blacksmith here... it was you. So yeah, pretty small group.
This is definitely interesting, but it’s certainly very new based on the number of votes on things.
I wish there were more details about who is running the site and when it was started though.
Also, the bit about the images “drawn” is a weird design decision to me, but I guess it works?
It works really well for mcmaster , who's catalog is in the top 5 of the site so far. They were probably inspired by it.
i'm not in a habit of having positive feelings towards many companies, but i adore mcmaster carr, tbh. what an absolute beauty of a website too. honestly i would order from there more often if i had more things i needed that i could get all at once.
the shipping price hurts if you just need one small inexpensive thing (it will be multiple times the cost of said small thing) which has always made me a bit less likely to order as often. makes more sense to bundle things up
though, i don't necessarily fault them for it- nearly every time i order, it arrives within 24-48 hours or so, so they're using some very fast shipping (or efficient warehouse placement) so i wouldn't expect them to absorb that cost and it does make for a very enjoyable/efficient ordering process so whatever project you're doing doesn't have to wait long for whatever parts you need
Agreed, they are one of the best. A little overpriced on most stuff really. shipping is usually 10-20$ per delivery for me. But its worth it for business stuff.
I'm not sure what they are like in other cities but here in Los Angeles they have a distribution hub that stocks most of the catalog. They contract with local independent delivery people. They do two rounds per day. So If I order something by 11 am the McMaster guy will show up around 1-4pm with it. Or if I'm in a real hurry I can drive out to the will call counter.
I order stuff several times a week. If I ever want to return anything I just put in a box and give it to the McMaster guy next time he's delivering. no shipping or RMA or anything. I just tell them its a return, they figure it out and reverse the charge.
Yeah sometimes there's some neat inexpensive things, but a lot of things do feel inflated in price. I figured it's partially because most customers are probably business customers, and I know business-to-business pricing isn't always so wonderful whenever regular consumers want in. Everything I've ordered has been top quality, though, so that's also part of it.
And, with good return policies, fast shipping, and just overall good service experience- I think they bake some of that cost into the product pricing too, which is fair.
It's super nice to be able to think to myself "I need some rubber feet or sound dampeners" or "would it be possible to get a sheet of <material> somewhere online reasonably?"... and most of the time the answer to those is McMaster
I’m guessing the illustration is to abstract the item away from any specific store listing since branding and labels can change over time or by where they’re sold.
Not a lot of information, but it does say the following below the blue scrolling banner:
It's a funny list. I have a lot of experience in some of their categories and while I don't see anything I can really argue with, if you need this website to discover the Festool track saw, for example, you probably should be buying a cheaper version by another manufacturer.
Yeah I think it’s benefit from a “good, better, best” tagging system.
And the reality is that there often isn't a best or a standard. I'm in Makita land for battery systems, it's fine and I had my reasons for choosing it but I work with people in Milwaukee land and that's fine too. I'm reasonably wary of people who are dogged about these choices.
Yeah I kind of wondered about how it’s gonna end up handling cameras since photography has the same problem. You’re not gonna buy Nikon stuff if you have a Canon, and it’ll be a huge pain to switch for not much benefit.
Similar with the audio world. The list currently for "recording and live sound" is pretty accurate, but I think it is because they did not go through all the categories. Something like wireless mics and IEMs, it is a toss up between Sennheiser and Shure, and the only thing is people pick one system for a show/venue and then stay consistent. Although choosing a Yamaha console is an interesting choice, since while Yamaha's are great, their "on" button rather than a "mute" button throws people off all the time if they are not familiar with Yamaha. At the higher end, it seems like Digico is the preferred brand
I have some doubts about the audio section. Imo Yamaha NS10 is just outdated and not very useful, most new studios do not buy them and shouldn't. Genelec monitors are surely correct, but they're in a different list for some reason.
The list also reminded me that industry standard doesn't necessarily mean best. SM57 and SM58 undoubtedly are industry standard, but in my experience for some genres, especially quieter acoustic music their presence boost makes everything sound worse and they should be avoided. We moved to sE V7 for cheap secondary vocal/instrument microphones because they just sound better for our use case. And I am convinced that nobody actually needs a Neumann U87.
The website does not claim to be a "best gear" list, but I feel like people often don't realize the distinction at first.
Studio monitors were the one section that I was less aware of since I work in live audio. The Sony headphones as well are a bit debatable, since while that model is quite popular so is the Sennheiser HD280s.
Yeah, I think there should be a bit more discussion on what "industry standard" means. The SM58 is the industry standard because it is cheap, durable, and sounds decent. If you are at an arena level concert, they are not using an SM58 on vocals. I was at a concert at a bar a year or so ago, and the main act was doing a small tour and he swapped out the SM58 used for the opener with his own mic (that he probably tours with). The advantage of a 58 is that every soundtech knows what to expect with them, so if they show up at a venue with a choice of vocal mics they might gravitate towards the 58s because of familiarity. Whereas, the U87 is considered the industry standard as it is the gold standard of mics. For a lot of situations it is not the ideal mic because it is so transparent. It will capture flaws in the room and also flaws in the performance. Sometimes you want a lower end mic that will smooth out some of the harsh points of a performance. Or a different mic will be chosen to add a specific tone to the recording.
I think in the discussion here, it has alluded to the issue of this site which is what does "industry standard" mean? I think there are several different meanings being used, and the site uses them interchangeably without stating which one they are using. The several definitions are:
I think this site is still interesting, and with it getting more popular it may get more accurate or gets astroturfed to be meaningless. I think defining industry standard would be a good next step though
At first I liked the site, but the more I've perused it and think about it, the more I think the entire idea is a bit flawed, and this goes along with what you're saying, where their definition of industry standard really needs to be more clearly defined rather than something nebulous that seems to carry different meanings
I think naming the site this might have painted themselves into a bit of a corner, without adding a lot of caveats. I also think that the whole idea might give certain things (whether popular, or expensive, or whatever else) more credit or praise than they deserve- I think the nature of something simply being on this list (if a reader is passive enough to just accept it as an authority) can lend things on the list an undeserved reputation
I don't know if they intend for their lists to give an aura of "recommended" or "quality" or whatnot (though, it seems the site would be less useful if not?) but plenty of things that make the list aren't necessarily going to be the best value or even the best quality option. Plenty of business products common among various industries can be shitty and expensive, because of lack of competition, or otherwise. I've used lots of business garbage in my years. I'm sure there are lots of "standard" things used across the board that simply suck, or if they suit their purpose for a business, are an awful value or fit for a consumer
This is a neat directory.
Is there a project or hobby you want to get into and trying to search for what equipment to buy is bewildering and full of review slop? This just shows you the good one. The one everyone who works in the field uses.