A seriously unbelievable tragedy. There were 750 passengers on the ship, less than 150 survived. It seemed that the ship was overburdened and eventually capsized, but it was entirely preventable:...
A seriously unbelievable tragedy. There were 750 passengers on the ship, less than 150 survived. It seemed that the ship was overburdened and eventually capsized, but it was entirely preventable:
But Greece, one of the world’s foremost maritime nations, was equipped to carry out a rescue. Navy ships, including those with medical resources, could have arrived in the 13 hours after the Frontex alert.
The ship carried migrants from Pakistan, Syria, Palestine, and Egypt. The original plan was to sail to Italy, but it clearly was in distress despite the Greek authorities turning a blind eye.
A crucial part of the Greek authorities’ explanation for not rescuing the Adriana is their claim that it was actively sailing toward Italy. When the BBC, using data from neighboring vessels, reported that the Adriana had been practically idle for several hours before it sank, the Greek government noted that the ship had covered 30 nautical miles toward Italy since its detection by Frontex.
I've seen some comments on the article itself saying that this needs to happen in order to discourage further migrants, with the Greek government clearly following the same tack:
The sinking of the Adriana is an extreme example of a longtime standoff in the Mediterranean. Ruthless smugglers in North Africa cram people onto shoddy vessels, and passengers hope that, if things go wrong, they will be taken to safety. But European coast guards often postpone rescues out of fear that helping will embolden smugglers to send more people on ever-flimsier ships. And as European politics have swung to the right, each new arriving ship is a potential political flashpoint.
This is one of the big failings of the EU. This is an EU wide problem at an EU border, but it's more-or-less down to the border states to handle it, which is entirely unfair. But there's A LOT of...
I can't help but feel that that is inexcusable.
This is one of the big failings of the EU. This is an EU wide problem at an EU border, but it's more-or-less down to the border states to handle it, which is entirely unfair.
But there's A LOT of big decisions that would need to happen for an EU border force to be able to be created. Which is what is needed.
As climate change progresses, there will be more and more migrants.
There's just no real good options for Greece. They can't afford to just bring the migrants to Greece, their economy is already pretty bad as things stand. They can't just rescue the migrants and...
There's just no real good options for Greece.
They can't afford to just bring the migrants to Greece, their economy is already pretty bad as things stand.
They can't just rescue the migrants and drop them somewhere else in the EU, because nobody would let them.
They would like the vessel to make it to Italy on its own power, so it becomes not their problem, but in this case the ship couldn't do that.
They can hardly seize control of the vessel despite the captain wanting to continue to Italy, at least not while he remained in control of the ship.
Attempting to rescue people by letting them swim to a rescue boat could have caused the ship to capsize, and while it was going to capsize anyway, nobody knew this at the time.
So with all of the options for things they could do ruled out, I guess they just ended up doing nothing at all.
Yeah, the Greeks did everything that could be expected of them by offering supplies, offering to rescue the ship (this offer was rejected) and then being on standby in case an emergency happened...
Yeah, the Greeks did everything that could be expected of them by offering supplies, offering to rescue the ship (this offer was rejected) and then being on standby in case an emergency happened (and they did save 150 people).
If I sounded like I was being critical of them it's just because I know what website I'm on.
Regarding the offer being rejected: There is something deeply hypocritical about saying "it's 100% the fault of those no good criminal scumbag lowlife smugglers" and then turning around and saying...
Exemplary
Regarding the offer being rejected:
There is something deeply hypocritical about saying "it's 100% the fault of those no good criminal scumbag lowlife smugglers" and then turning around and saying "but we did as they wished and didn't intervene". The vessel, if you've seen the pictures, was obviously unsafe and heading for disaster. I'm pretty sure a boat loaded with 700 tourists would have been stopped, unloaded and the people responsible charged regardless of their protests that they're fine and they're refusing help.
It's just a convenient excuse, which skirts over the fact that we're calling those people criminal scum (which they are) and also following their wishes to endanger 700 people.
Now, Greece is in an indeed very tight spot both practically and politically. Politically, the country is in a very bad economic state and even if the migrants were not an issue at all, the conditions are ripe for intolerance and blaming "the other". New Democracy was just massively re-elected and they made a lot of political hay out of "effectively dealing with the migration issue". Everyone knows pushbacks are happening and most people approve, legality be damned.
Practically, Greece is a poor country with serious issues, very close to financial and public sector collapse. Absolutely not the #1 candidate for taking care of the migrant waves. Here is where the EU's blame lies. The EU is happy to condemn Greece and ECSTATIC to not have the migrants be their own problem.
The real path to a solution, that does not involve either executions at the border or turning a blind eye to migrant casualties is via a new treaty to replace Dublin II, which states that the first EU country the migrants land in, is responsible for them. This can only be handled collectively as a collective problem. The migrants after all are not exactly enthusiastic about staying in Greece, a country far from the "EU utopia" they were advertised. The current situation is a bad look for Greece, the EU and the concept of a united Europe.
And of course, long term perhaps we should be looking at the collective "we", far beyond the EU because if the climate collapse happens and the migrants become tens of millions there will only be two solutions, the EU gets flooded and reactionary far-right policies become the norm and/or landmines and turrets at the border. These people are fleeing and risking their lives for a reason and that reason needs to be dealt with.
The Greeks would love it if they could seize vessels in international waters and forcibly take everyone on board back to wherever they came from. But the optics of this would be horrible,...
The Greeks would love it if they could seize vessels in international waters and forcibly take everyone on board back to wherever they came from. But the optics of this would be horrible, especially if someone on board had a rifle and objected to being boarded.
And no matter how the European policy towards the distribution of immigrants changed, that wouldn't change that there's more immigrants than there is popular support for hosting them in Europe, so there's always going to be illegal and dangerous attempts like this, almost regardless of European policy.
Stopping the immigration at the source sounds nice, but at the same time it's impossible. Foreign aid to a country like Pakistan gets stolen by corruption, and military intervention in a nuclear power is not an option for obvious reasons. Intervention in Syria was rejected because of fears of escalating a war with Russia, but again you can't just send money to Assad and have him use it to help the people. Iraq is probably the most successful intervention in the Middle East and is still deeply unpopular. There's just no way, politically or practically, to remove the incentive to migrate to Europe.
I am not speaking from expertise here but my view is that Greece has very strong incentives not to mess around with the legality of international maritime borders and jurisdiction when state...
I am not speaking from expertise here but my view is that Greece has very strong incentives not to mess around with the legality of international maritime borders and jurisdiction when state actors can be affected. Allowing lines to get blurred over a forcible "here this is now your problem" could easily lead to serious issues. Keep in mind that this was NOT a typical case. The argument over pushbacks and what the coastguard and navy are doing is focused on the much more common Turkey to Greece passage. There you have a state actor that will activelly push migrants towards Greece, will heavily condemn and publicise any attempts to lead them back to Turkey and the push-of-war between them could easily lead to mini stand-offs between two hostile navies at a time where fear-the-neighbours rhetoric is at a recent high on both sides.
Additionally you obviously cannot literally take them back to the land they came from as that would involve the navy performing what would be immediately characterised as an illegal or even hostile action in foreign waters.
I agree on the political reality of Europe being unwilling to host more people, so is Greece. But that's the controllable and maleable factor here. The migration waves are a fact. Hundreds have died thousands are suffering and still they keep coming, that's the reality we're living in.
There are no easy answers but I'd rather people face the reality of what they're supporting, warts and all.
If solving the problem there, EU distribution, a new treaty etc are all out of the question, landmines and machineguns it is. The EU and Greece should then nut up and plainly say "we will murder you, straight up" and take the historical responsibility instead of turning a blind eye or even hollowly condemning the ones doing their killing for them.
What are you even about here? This incident occurred in international waters, there is no maritime border or jurisdiction relevant to it. Maritime borders are very clear, nations get to claim the...
I am not speaking from expertise here but my view is that Greece has very strong incentives not to mess around with the legality of international maritime borders and jurisdiction when state actors can be affected. Allowing lines to get blurred over a forcible "here this is now your problem" could easily lead to serious issues.
What are you even about here? This incident occurred in international waters, there is no maritime border or jurisdiction relevant to it. Maritime borders are very clear, nations get to claim the 12 miles off their coast and that's it, this has been agreed upon by pretty much everyone. I honestly don't know what issues you think it could lead to or where the lines are remotely blurry.
If solving the problem there, EU distribution, a new treaty etc are all out of the question, landmines and machineguns it is. The EU and Greece should then nut up and plainly say "we will murder you, straight up" and take the historical responsibility
That's what they're already doing. If the migrants try to arrive in Greece they will not be allowed to land, and they will be stopped with force if necessary. The migrants know they will lose this fight, so they avoid starting it in the first place, by sailing to Italy instead. But there's no mistake that if migrants tried to come to Greece and ignored the Coast Guard and naval vessels which would be sent out to stop them, they would be stopped by force. And if you look at Poland's response to the 2021 incident with Belarus they were again very clear what would happen to people trying to cross the border, this time almost literally using landmines and machineguns.
Sure, just about everyone would prefer if the migrants were stopped without needing to be shot, and got sent safely somewhere else, but its pretty clear that if the only two options are uncontrolled immigration or shootings at the borders, governments will choose the latter. This isn't some secret if you've paid any attention towards European policy, or really just any country's policy.
I am quite plainly referring to And how you cannot take anyone back to where they came from, neither by land sea or air. As to your comment on dissuasion, like I already said, the migrants keep...
I am quite plainly referring to
The Greeks would love it if they could seize vessels in international waters and forcibly take everyone on board back to wherever they came from
And how you cannot take anyone back to where they came from, neither by land sea or air.
As to your comment on dissuasion, like I already said, the migrants keep coming via Turkey, this has remained constant and apart from unverifiable claims that there would be more of them if we weren't drowning them, I don't see how one can claim that it's working.
There are zero incidents of outright force (as in firearms) being used since it is not necessary, it's not an invading fleet, it's small boats and the coastguard and navy's power is overwhelming compared to them. They SHOULD be stopped arrested and have their applications processed, but often are forcefully and illegally pushed back.
Your honesty is quite outstanding compared to the usual hiding behind propriety and legality, I just hoped we'd have a better solution than murder in 2023.
I heard an interview where the fellow they were interviewing was blasting the Greek authorities (somewhat fair) and praising the smugglers. People want that service, they are providing that...
I heard an interview where the fellow they were interviewing was blasting the Greek authorities (somewhat fair) and praising the smugglers. People want that service, they are providing that valuable service. Like... excuse me? You mean the valuable service of locking hundreds of women and children into a hold so they can drown when your crappy, overloaded boat capsizes? The smugglers are only ever held accountable when a) they are caught and b) they are specifically caught in destination countries or other nations that actually care. The countries where these people are coming from do nothing to stop the human smuggling trade because for them it isn't a problem... and in some cases because those countries' govts are in complete disarray so it's not the top priority.
There is something of a duty to rescue a boat in distress in international waters but you also can't just saunter up and seize control. The Greek authorities offered a rescue and it was rejected by the smugglers (for obvious reasons). Well, in international waters you kind of have to play the game that way.
I feel for the people who died and their families, but if you pay money to criminals to smuggle you on the hush hush across the sea through international waters... you're putting your life in their hands. Maybe that's still better than the alternative (and people probably see it as an odds game because MOST of these ships smuggle people successfully).
The smugglers here are the real problem, agreed. By abusing the "rescue" laws surrounding stranded vessels, they've found a way to drop off human cargo without ever having permission to dock....
The smugglers here are the real problem, agreed.
By abusing the "rescue" laws surrounding stranded vessels, they've found a way to drop off human cargo without ever having permission to dock.
Forcing a rescue situation is what they wanted - it just worked a little too well.
Save them how? Seize a ship in international waters by force? And just hope nobody on board has a rifle and objects to being boarded? Helping them would have been piracy there's a reason nobody...
Save them how? Seize a ship in international waters by force? And just hope nobody on board has a rifle and objects to being boarded? Helping them would have been piracy there's a reason nobody did anything.
After the ship had capsized they did go to help, and they saved 150 people, but many people were on lower decks and couldn't escape.
By intervening? Done. The vessel gets intercepted by coast guard ships and all the souls on board will be returned safely to their homes. All this selective compassion is extremely transparent...
By intervening? Done. The vessel gets intercepted by coast guard ships and all the souls on board will be returned safely to their homes.
All this selective compassion is extremely transparent when it's exclusively used to criticize any form of a European boarder and justify these human traffickers.
What if Greece hadn't noticed the ship and their boat tracking was offline that day - would it still be their fault? No blame goes to the captain who crammed 700 people into a dangerously unsafe boat like sardines? Nah, they're the wrong color so nobody gives a damn.
Except it wasn't done. I'm not talking hypothetically - this wasn't a thought exercise. Also, selective compassion? Is that how you rationalize having none? Do you even live in Europe?
Except it wasn't done. I'm not talking hypothetically - this wasn't a thought exercise.
Also, selective compassion? Is that how you rationalize having none?
The Greeks did intercept the vessel, however it refused their help. So rather than commit and act of piracy and forcibly board a civilian ship transiting international waters, which is not an...
The Greeks did intercept the vessel, however it refused their help.
So rather than commit and act of piracy and forcibly board a civilian ship transiting international waters, which is not an option for reasons that should be blindingly obvious, they parked next to it and waited for the Captain to change his mind and ask for help.
Then when the ship suddenly capsized they went and saved as many people as they could.
Even if the Greeks were lying about the vessel being under power in the hours before it sank, what does that really have to do with anything? They're still not able to help the ship until it...
Even if the Greeks were lying about the vessel being under power in the hours before it sank, what does that really have to do with anything? They're still not able to help the ship until it requests help, engine problems aren't an excuse for piracy
They didn't even have the decency to record what was going on. What an awful story. It starts awful and just gets worse throughout.
Despite many hours of on-and-off surveillance, the only eyewitnesses to the Adriana’s final moments were the survivors and 13 crew members aboard the coast guard ship, known as the 920. A Maritime Ministry spokesman has said that the ship’s night-vision camera was switched off at the time. Court documents show that the coast guard captain gave the authorities a CD-ROM containing video recordings, but the source of the recordings is unclear, and they have not been made public.
They didn't even have the decency to record what was going on. What an awful story. It starts awful and just gets worse throughout.
A submarine going missing is always going to be more interesting than a overloaded boat capsizing. These sorts of accidents happen pretty frequently in the Mediterranean, and they're going to...
A submarine going missing is always going to be more interesting than a overloaded boat capsizing. These sorts of accidents happen pretty frequently in the Mediterranean, and they're going to continue to happen for the foreseeable future, and there's really nothing anyone can do about it or they would have done it already.
On the other hand experimental submarines visiting the Titanic and imploding with the creator on board isn't exactly something that happens every day. So of course it makes the news.
Yes I completely understand why the Titan sub got more attention. I even admit that I found the Titan tragedy to be more interesting. Nonetheless, if you look at the response compared to the lives...
Yes I completely understand why the Titan sub got more attention. I even admit that I found the Titan tragedy to be more interesting. Nonetheless, if you look at the response compared to the lives at stake (750 people that could have been rescued vs 5 people that realistically have already perished), it just doesn't seem... fair? But I guess life isn't fair.
I think another factor is that the Titan sub is far less depressing. I read quite a lot about it because it didn't particularly upset me; it sounds like they had good lives up until they died (far...
I think another factor is that the Titan sub is far less depressing. I read quite a lot about it because it didn't particularly upset me; it sounds like they had good lives up until they died (far better than most of us), and it sounds like they died quickly and painlessly (also far better than most of us will).
However, I have tried to avoid reading too much about this migrant ship because it makes me feel sick to my stomach to imagine the lives and deaths of those who were lost. It's just a horrible, sickening tragedy all around.
It's a different circumstance in the end. It's not like the issue was that rescuing the refugee ship would be too expensive, or too more work. Rather, Greek authorities didn't attempt a rescue due...
It's a different circumstance in the end. It's not like the issue was that rescuing the refugee ship would be too expensive, or too more work. Rather, Greek authorities didn't attempt a rescue due to political reasons.
Meanwhile, none of the nations had any political reasons to deny help to the Titanic submarine. Other subjects of international rescue efforts, like the thai cave rescue, which was just a children's soccer team, were not particularly rich or notable.
A seriously unbelievable tragedy. There were 750 passengers on the ship, less than 150 survived. It seemed that the ship was overburdened and eventually capsized, but it was entirely preventable:
The ship carried migrants from Pakistan, Syria, Palestine, and Egypt. The original plan was to sail to Italy, but it clearly was in distress despite the Greek authorities turning a blind eye.
I've seen some comments on the article itself saying that this needs to happen in order to discourage further migrants, with the Greek government clearly following the same tack:
I can't help but feel that that is inexcusable.
This is one of the big failings of the EU. This is an EU wide problem at an EU border, but it's more-or-less down to the border states to handle it, which is entirely unfair.
But there's A LOT of big decisions that would need to happen for an EU border force to be able to be created. Which is what is needed.
As climate change progresses, there will be more and more migrants.
There might have been ways that Greece could have handled this better, but ultimately I don't think it's fair to say they're at fault
There's just no real good options for Greece.
They can't afford to just bring the migrants to Greece, their economy is already pretty bad as things stand.
They can't just rescue the migrants and drop them somewhere else in the EU, because nobody would let them.
They would like the vessel to make it to Italy on its own power, so it becomes not their problem, but in this case the ship couldn't do that.
They can hardly seize control of the vessel despite the captain wanting to continue to Italy, at least not while he remained in control of the ship.
Attempting to rescue people by letting them swim to a rescue boat could have caused the ship to capsize, and while it was going to capsize anyway, nobody knew this at the time.
So with all of the options for things they could do ruled out, I guess they just ended up doing nothing at all.
Yeah, the Greeks did everything that could be expected of them by offering supplies, offering to rescue the ship (this offer was rejected) and then being on standby in case an emergency happened (and they did save 150 people).
If I sounded like I was being critical of them it's just because I know what website I'm on.
Regarding the offer being rejected:
There is something deeply hypocritical about saying "it's 100% the fault of those no good criminal scumbag lowlife smugglers" and then turning around and saying "but we did as they wished and didn't intervene". The vessel, if you've seen the pictures, was obviously unsafe and heading for disaster. I'm pretty sure a boat loaded with 700 tourists would have been stopped, unloaded and the people responsible charged regardless of their protests that they're fine and they're refusing help.
It's just a convenient excuse, which skirts over the fact that we're calling those people criminal scum (which they are) and also following their wishes to endanger 700 people.
Now, Greece is in an indeed very tight spot both practically and politically. Politically, the country is in a very bad economic state and even if the migrants were not an issue at all, the conditions are ripe for intolerance and blaming "the other". New Democracy was just massively re-elected and they made a lot of political hay out of "effectively dealing with the migration issue". Everyone knows pushbacks are happening and most people approve, legality be damned.
Practically, Greece is a poor country with serious issues, very close to financial and public sector collapse. Absolutely not the #1 candidate for taking care of the migrant waves. Here is where the EU's blame lies. The EU is happy to condemn Greece and ECSTATIC to not have the migrants be their own problem.
The real path to a solution, that does not involve either executions at the border or turning a blind eye to migrant casualties is via a new treaty to replace Dublin II, which states that the first EU country the migrants land in, is responsible for them. This can only be handled collectively as a collective problem. The migrants after all are not exactly enthusiastic about staying in Greece, a country far from the "EU utopia" they were advertised. The current situation is a bad look for Greece, the EU and the concept of a united Europe.
And of course, long term perhaps we should be looking at the collective "we", far beyond the EU because if the climate collapse happens and the migrants become tens of millions there will only be two solutions, the EU gets flooded and reactionary far-right policies become the norm and/or landmines and turrets at the border. These people are fleeing and risking their lives for a reason and that reason needs to be dealt with.
The Greeks would love it if they could seize vessels in international waters and forcibly take everyone on board back to wherever they came from. But the optics of this would be horrible, especially if someone on board had a rifle and objected to being boarded.
And no matter how the European policy towards the distribution of immigrants changed, that wouldn't change that there's more immigrants than there is popular support for hosting them in Europe, so there's always going to be illegal and dangerous attempts like this, almost regardless of European policy.
Stopping the immigration at the source sounds nice, but at the same time it's impossible. Foreign aid to a country like Pakistan gets stolen by corruption, and military intervention in a nuclear power is not an option for obvious reasons. Intervention in Syria was rejected because of fears of escalating a war with Russia, but again you can't just send money to Assad and have him use it to help the people. Iraq is probably the most successful intervention in the Middle East and is still deeply unpopular. There's just no way, politically or practically, to remove the incentive to migrate to Europe.
I am not speaking from expertise here but my view is that Greece has very strong incentives not to mess around with the legality of international maritime borders and jurisdiction when state actors can be affected. Allowing lines to get blurred over a forcible "here this is now your problem" could easily lead to serious issues. Keep in mind that this was NOT a typical case. The argument over pushbacks and what the coastguard and navy are doing is focused on the much more common Turkey to Greece passage. There you have a state actor that will activelly push migrants towards Greece, will heavily condemn and publicise any attempts to lead them back to Turkey and the push-of-war between them could easily lead to mini stand-offs between two hostile navies at a time where fear-the-neighbours rhetoric is at a recent high on both sides.
Additionally you obviously cannot literally take them back to the land they came from as that would involve the navy performing what would be immediately characterised as an illegal or even hostile action in foreign waters.
I agree on the political reality of Europe being unwilling to host more people, so is Greece. But that's the controllable and maleable factor here. The migration waves are a fact. Hundreds have died thousands are suffering and still they keep coming, that's the reality we're living in.
There are no easy answers but I'd rather people face the reality of what they're supporting, warts and all.
If solving the problem there, EU distribution, a new treaty etc are all out of the question, landmines and machineguns it is. The EU and Greece should then nut up and plainly say "we will murder you, straight up" and take the historical responsibility instead of turning a blind eye or even hollowly condemning the ones doing their killing for them.
Unless anyone can offer an alternative of course.
What are you even about here? This incident occurred in international waters, there is no maritime border or jurisdiction relevant to it. Maritime borders are very clear, nations get to claim the 12 miles off their coast and that's it, this has been agreed upon by pretty much everyone. I honestly don't know what issues you think it could lead to or where the lines are remotely blurry.
That's what they're already doing. If the migrants try to arrive in Greece they will not be allowed to land, and they will be stopped with force if necessary. The migrants know they will lose this fight, so they avoid starting it in the first place, by sailing to Italy instead. But there's no mistake that if migrants tried to come to Greece and ignored the Coast Guard and naval vessels which would be sent out to stop them, they would be stopped by force. And if you look at Poland's response to the 2021 incident with Belarus they were again very clear what would happen to people trying to cross the border, this time almost literally using landmines and machineguns.
Sure, just about everyone would prefer if the migrants were stopped without needing to be shot, and got sent safely somewhere else, but its pretty clear that if the only two options are uncontrolled immigration or shootings at the borders, governments will choose the latter. This isn't some secret if you've paid any attention towards European policy, or really just any country's policy.
I am quite plainly referring to
And how you cannot take anyone back to where they came from, neither by land sea or air.
As to your comment on dissuasion, like I already said, the migrants keep coming via Turkey, this has remained constant and apart from unverifiable claims that there would be more of them if we weren't drowning them, I don't see how one can claim that it's working.
There are zero incidents of outright force (as in firearms) being used since it is not necessary, it's not an invading fleet, it's small boats and the coastguard and navy's power is overwhelming compared to them. They SHOULD be stopped arrested and have their applications processed, but often are forcefully and illegally pushed back.
Your honesty is quite outstanding compared to the usual hiding behind propriety and legality, I just hoped we'd have a better solution than murder in 2023.
I heard an interview where the fellow they were interviewing was blasting the Greek authorities (somewhat fair) and praising the smugglers. People want that service, they are providing that valuable service. Like... excuse me? You mean the valuable service of locking hundreds of women and children into a hold so they can drown when your crappy, overloaded boat capsizes? The smugglers are only ever held accountable when a) they are caught and b) they are specifically caught in destination countries or other nations that actually care. The countries where these people are coming from do nothing to stop the human smuggling trade because for them it isn't a problem... and in some cases because those countries' govts are in complete disarray so it's not the top priority.
There is something of a duty to rescue a boat in distress in international waters but you also can't just saunter up and seize control. The Greek authorities offered a rescue and it was rejected by the smugglers (for obvious reasons). Well, in international waters you kind of have to play the game that way.
I feel for the people who died and their families, but if you pay money to criminals to smuggle you on the hush hush across the sea through international waters... you're putting your life in their hands. Maybe that's still better than the alternative (and people probably see it as an odds game because MOST of these ships smuggle people successfully).
The smugglers here are the real problem, agreed.
By abusing the "rescue" laws surrounding stranded vessels, they've found a way to drop off human cargo without ever having permission to dock.
Forcing a rescue situation is what they wanted - it just worked a little too well.
Well, if you were drowning, I'd be the first to pull out my phone and text about how nuanced it all is and there is just no good options.
What specifically would you have wanted the Greeks to do differently?
Gee, save the humans in danger maybe?
Nah, they're the wrong color so who gives a damn right?
Save them how? Seize a ship in international waters by force? And just hope nobody on board has a rifle and objects to being boarded? Helping them would have been piracy there's a reason nobody did anything.
After the ship had capsized they did go to help, and they saved 150 people, but many people were on lower decks and couldn't escape.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65942426
By intervening? Done. The vessel gets intercepted by coast guard ships and all the souls on board will be returned safely to their homes.
All this selective compassion is extremely transparent when it's exclusively used to criticize any form of a European boarder and justify these human traffickers.
What if Greece hadn't noticed the ship and their boat tracking was offline that day - would it still be their fault? No blame goes to the captain who crammed 700 people into a dangerously unsafe boat like sardines? Nah, they're the wrong color so nobody gives a damn.
Except it wasn't done. I'm not talking hypothetically - this wasn't a thought exercise.
Also, selective compassion? Is that how you rationalize having none?
Do you even live in Europe?
The Greeks did intercept the vessel, however it refused their help.
So rather than commit and act of piracy and forcibly board a civilian ship transiting international waters, which is not an option for reasons that should be blindingly obvious, they parked next to it and waited for the Captain to change his mind and ask for help.
Then when the ship suddenly capsized they went and saved as many people as they could.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65942426
Even if the Greeks were lying about the vessel being under power in the hours before it sank, what does that really have to do with anything? They're still not able to help the ship until it requests help, engine problems aren't an excuse for piracy
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65942426
They didn't even have the decency to record what was going on. What an awful story. It starts awful and just gets worse throughout.
The difference in the global response to the lives of 750 migrants vs a couple of billionaires is... very upsetting
A submarine going missing is always going to be more interesting than a overloaded boat capsizing. These sorts of accidents happen pretty frequently in the Mediterranean, and they're going to continue to happen for the foreseeable future, and there's really nothing anyone can do about it or they would have done it already.
On the other hand experimental submarines visiting the Titanic and imploding with the creator on board isn't exactly something that happens every day. So of course it makes the news.
Yes I completely understand why the Titan sub got more attention. I even admit that I found the Titan tragedy to be more interesting. Nonetheless, if you look at the response compared to the lives at stake (750 people that could have been rescued vs 5 people that realistically have already perished), it just doesn't seem... fair? But I guess life isn't fair.
I think another factor is that the Titan sub is far less depressing. I read quite a lot about it because it didn't particularly upset me; it sounds like they had good lives up until they died (far better than most of us), and it sounds like they died quickly and painlessly (also far better than most of us will).
However, I have tried to avoid reading too much about this migrant ship because it makes me feel sick to my stomach to imagine the lives and deaths of those who were lost. It's just a horrible, sickening tragedy all around.
It's a different circumstance in the end. It's not like the issue was that rescuing the refugee ship would be too expensive, or too more work. Rather, Greek authorities didn't attempt a rescue due to political reasons.
Meanwhile, none of the nations had any political reasons to deny help to the Titanic submarine. Other subjects of international rescue efforts, like the thai cave rescue, which was just a children's soccer team, were not particularly rich or notable.
Soft paywall is a bummer
Apologies, here is a archive link! https://archive.is/xipNe