21 votes

Without a college degree, life in America is staggeringly shorter

14 comments

  1. [2]
    NaraVara
    Link
    There was another set of articles a while ago that argued the wealth difference between college degree and non-degreed people is shrinking over time. It attributed this largely to the non-degree...

    There was another set of articles a while ago that argued the wealth difference between college degree and non-degreed people is shrinking over time. It attributed this largely to the non-degree holders being able to start building wealth sooner since they start earning immediately and don't start off in debt.

    But seeing this I start to wonder if some amount of that effect is just due to non-degree holders just dying sooner, so the average wealth of the non-college cohort goes up as much due to the ones who don't make it dropping out of the statistic (by dying)?

    18 votes
    1. vord
      Link Parent
      Also, IIRC, college grads are being paid less than they used to be (as in before 1999ish) by a decent margin. I don't have time to double check my memory/gut, but its worth diving into IMO.

      Also, IIRC, college grads are being paid less than they used to be (as in before 1999ish) by a decent margin.

      I don't have time to double check my memory/gut, but its worth diving into IMO.

      11 votes
  2. [10]
    rosco
    Link
    I'm of two minds about the article. On the one hand, university in the US is expensive. So folks who can easily access degree likely have 1) parents that likely went to college (potential high...

    I'm of two minds about the article.

    On the one hand, university in the US is expensive. So folks who can easily access degree likely have 1) parents that likely went to college (potential high earners), 2) the funds or access to funds to pay for the degree (generational wealth). I always wonder how much these differences are just a function of wealth + connections starting at a young age.

    The other part of me thinks that the jarring difference in decline post covid might have something to do with trust in science and academic institutions. If you don't trust the recommendations from the CDC or academia then I can imagine higher mortality events, particularly with Covid. If you went to an institution and saw firsthand the process for research you may be more inclined to get vaccinated, wear masks, and avoid larger gatherings. There was just such a significant disproportionate decrease in the Covid years.

    16 votes
    1. [9]
      scroll_lock
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Early childhood education and socialization has a dramatic impact on effective literacy, numeracy and mathematical skill (essential for intuitively understanding finances), social ability, etc....
      • Exemplary

      I always wonder how much these differences are just a function of wealth + connections starting at a young age.

      Early childhood education and socialization has a dramatic impact on effective literacy, numeracy and mathematical skill (essential for intuitively understanding finances), social ability, etc. The effects are lifelong. Wealthy people, as a group, have more resources that make early childhood productive for their children. The typical wealthy person lives in a community with a good school, may have a private tutor, and probably has more time to spend with their kid. A person raised in such an environment could easily develop the skills to succeed with or without a college degree; but college is a predictor of even more resources, and it's relatively less of a burden for wealthier people, so that's where they're more likely to go.

      There's a point in adults where learning something like algebra (essential for financial literacy) realistically isn't going to happen. It can, it just won't. And it's consistently those adults who struggle to adapt to our world of numbers and financial instruments. Lacking access to resources locked behind walls of numeracy and advanced reading comprehension, less educated people are simply not going to flourish. While it's always possible to redesign parts of an entrenched system to empower disadvantaged adults, it's more effective and efficient in the long-term to address the issues at their roots, which generally means better educational and social resources for children.

      Not to discount the importance of labor unions, worker protections, etc. for adults. But focusing on college degrees by themselves gives us an incomplete view of things.

      jarring difference in decline post covid

      Different levels of trust in institutions is probably part of it, but I don't think it's even that complicated. People without college degrees are more likely to hold jobs which can't be done remotely. Before the vaccines were available, that meant more exposure to what was a relatively mortal disease. Thus more of them died, and their life expectancy as a group went down.

      Lower-income people, including those without a college degree, are statistically more likely to engage in behaviors like smoking. They're less likely to have a good diet. They probably live in a more polluted area, and don't necessarily have the time or inclination to exercise. Like the article says, drug abuse is also more common. All of those things makes them especially susceptible to disease in general, and this one in particular. Ignoring calls to get vaccinated surely accounts for some of the drop in 2020, but the risk factors mentioned here aren't specifically related to trust in institutions; rather, they reflect the day-to-day behaviors that people without resources are encouraged or forced to engage in.

      19 votes
      1. [8]
        rosco
        Link Parent
        All amazing points said more eloquently than I could. I wish I could give you the top level comment spot to get more visibility.

        All amazing points said more eloquently than I could. I wish I could give you the top level comment spot to get more visibility.

        4 votes
        1. [7]
          boxer_dogs_dance
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          edit I misunderstood

          edit I misunderstood

          1. [3]
            rosco
            Link Parent
            I'm planning on it, but I wanted to be thoughtful about my context for the label. But you're right, easy to do. I was just hoping to give them kudos for taking the time to post such a thoughtful...

            You can use the label function to tag this comment exemplary

            I'm planning on it, but I wanted to be thoughtful about my context for the label. But you're right, easy to do. I was just hoping to give them kudos for taking the time to post such a thoughtful reply. I'm less judicious about tagging/ labelling/formatting than most folks on tildes and appreciate the patience.

            2 votes
          2. [3]
            Fal
            Link Parent
            @rosco has definitely been around for more than a week; don't think I've known Tildes without them lol

            @rosco has definitely been around for more than a week; don't think I've known Tildes without them lol

            1. [2]
              boxer_dogs_dance
              Link Parent
              Good to know. I misinterpreted their comment.

              Good to know. I misinterpreted their comment.

              1 vote
              1. Fal
                Link Parent
                No worries, it happens. Have a nice day!

                No worries, it happens. Have a nice day!

  3. ignorabimus
    Link
    One problem with US life expectancy figures is that they are lower in large part because of systemic racsim; life expectency for black Americans is ~71 years, compared to ~77 years for white...

    One problem with US life expectancy figures is that they are lower in large part because of systemic racsim; life expectency for black Americans is ~71 years, compared to ~77 years for white Americans (see CDC figures). This is a massive difference, and the US essentially has a tale of two populations going on here. The Economist have a (uncharacteristically) good visualisation of the data.

    11 votes