It’s a shame universities rely so heavily on tuition money. If they did not need to keep enrollment numbers up to make finances work, they could show solidarity for their staff and expel the nosey...
It’s a shame universities rely so heavily on tuition money. If they did not need to keep enrollment numbers up to make finances work, they could show solidarity for their staff and expel the nosey troublemakers. Assuming it’s an American university, they’ll still be stuck with student debt from the terms they attended, so they can truly get dunked on.
I've worked in housing for almost a decade and, yeah, I definitely have my moments of "can we send them all home?" We're not having many of the issues over the current war, in part because we...
I've worked in housing for almost a decade and, yeah, I definitely have my moments of "can we send them all home?"
We're not having many of the issues over the current war, in part because we don't have a huge Israeli, Jewish, Palestinian, or Muslim population. It's not zero but we're pretty insulated from direct effects.
I would imagine that intelligent administrators are researching the 60s and trying to find models that work. We haven't had this level of violent controversy since the Vietnam war.
I would imagine that intelligent administrators are researching the 60s and trying to find models that work. We haven't had this level of violent controversy since the Vietnam war.
I’d actually be curious as to the demographic makeup of school admins now, because I suspect many of administrators today are the very people who made all the trouble during the Vietnam era.
I’d actually be curious as to the demographic makeup of school admins now, because I suspect many of administrators today are the very people who made all the trouble during the Vietnam era.
Depends on what you mean by admin - Student Affairs leadership is mostly Gen X to young boomer with older millennials moving up. Upper admin like VPs, Presidents and the like, are older Gen X to...
Depends on what you mean by admin - Student Affairs leadership is mostly Gen X to young boomer with older millennials moving up.
Upper admin like VPs, Presidents and the like, are older Gen X to Boomer, though I don't have much of a sense their college politics, to get that far up you generally have to have a risk adverse mindset - for student safety, budget crunches, and lawsuit CYA alike.
Trustees are almost all boomers and are political appointees. Ymmv.
Faculty gets to say whatever they want* so you can actually know their current politics more easily and yes I'd suspect many more of them to have been those students in the 60s and 70s, especially as fewer of them seem to have resigned during COVID. (Anecdotally only)
In short I don't see a ton of people who were old enough to make a lot of trouble in the Vietnam era doing the bulk of day to day admin and crisis management. Senior leadership could have I suppose.
*Tenure track at least, but more so than staff anyway.
I don't know what can or will end the cycle of violence between Israel and the Palestinians. Northern Ireland is the possible example I can think of and I don't know exactly what worked there. ....
I don't know what can or will end the cycle of violence between Israel and the Palestinians. Northern Ireland is the possible example I can think of and I don't know exactly what worked there.
. There are handmade signs in my neighborhood that say Long Live the Intifadah
I am not and will never justifying Hamas. You brought up the West Bank, I did not, but whether legal or illegal, settler encroachment and violence are making the West Bank not an ideal model to...
I am not and will never justifying Hamas.
You brought up the West Bank, I did not, but whether legal or illegal, settler encroachment and violence are making the West Bank not an ideal model to point to. The pattern of construction and limiting access to roads between villages disrupts attempts at peaceful coexistence. So does Israeli police and army patterns of law enforcement.
On a related note, while of course it is of lower magnitude in like suffering to what's happening in Israel and Palestine currently and in the past, any attacks, whether they be verbal or...
On a related note, while of course it is of lower magnitude in like suffering to what's happening in Israel and Palestine currently and in the past, any attacks, whether they be verbal or physical, on another American for their heritage because of the conflict is just unexcusable. Jew or palestinian heritage, first and foremost they are Americans. They almost certainly have zero link to anything that happened.
You can argue to death about who's at fault for what and who's responsible for what in the Levant, but don't bring it to people who's only link is their DNA.
I believe you. In 2022, well before these recent events in Israel and Palestine, Jews were the second most common target of hate crimes in the US. I'm really not looking forward to seeing the data...
I've come to realize that Jewishness is one of the few identities where people immediately blame YOU for the actions of all that group.
The real difficulty in discussing the topic, beyond the die-hard side picking, is the inability of people to think about real, rational paths forward. It's always a race through history of each...
The real difficulty in discussing the topic, beyond the die-hard side picking, is the inability of people to think about real, rational paths forward. It's always a race through history of each side doing X because of Y because of Z until you've finally reached the extents of recorded human history. In the end, it really really doesn't matter what happened in the 60s, the 40s, or the Roman era. The historical events are interesting to see how things got to their current state, but this insistence on carrying grudges does nothing but continue the conflict. And most of these people have no reason to even carry these grudges, hell many of them learned about it mere weeks ago.
The path to peace means letting grudges go and forgiving the past but the difficulty of getting social crusaders to even acknowledge that concept shows just how far there is to go for a true end to it all.
I'm just so, so happy as an American, secular Jew to be out of college right now. My friend who does Jewish outreach on my old campus says they have Jews who have never shown up before crawling...
I'm just so, so happy as an American, secular Jew to be out of college right now. My friend who does Jewish outreach on my old campus says they have Jews who have never shown up before crawling out of the woodwork because so many people they considered their friends are hostile. My workplace Slack is having its own arguments, but being at a place of employment tends to mellow people's willingness to talk about controversial subjects.
It's just not a stress I think I could have handled as a student. Even when someone is asking questions in good faith, I have (very progressive left) Jewish friends talking about their exhaustion trying to explain their feelings to to their progressive friend group. To be on a college campus coming from every direction... At least at work, people have the need to keep their jobs on the brain.
(as a side note, I don't want to play Oppression Olympics here, I'm sure being a Palestinian-American student has its own challenges right now, even if I don't see them)
I can't even imagine what people in America are thinking if it's leading to the aggressive behavior people are reporting. I understand that, for many, this is more personal than it is for me (I...
I can't even imagine what people in America are thinking if it's leading to the aggressive behavior people are reporting. I understand that, for many, this is more personal than it is for me (I have no personal ties to religion or the middle east). But how many Americans actually lived in the middle east? How many Jewish Americans are even plausibly "Jewish enough" (all of the Jews I know use the "Not That Jewish" self-descriptor) to have strong nationalistic beliefs about Israel's need to defend itself?
I get protesting sending money to Israel or Gaza. I understand getting really upset when one group wants to send money to Gaza but you feel that money could support future terror incursions into Israel, or how sending money to Israel will just embolden them to kill more Gazan civilians. But why the fuck are Americans attacking other Americans over this?
Some of it isn't rational, the 70 something landlord that killed a Palestinian American child in Illinois for being Muslim wasn't thinking anything rational in the moment. Put all of our media has...
Some of it isn't rational, the 70 something landlord that killed a Palestinian American child in Illinois for being Muslim wasn't thinking anything rational in the moment.
Put all of our media has primed us to have an us versus them attitude. With the " them" changing on any given day based on what's going on. But being non-white, non-christian, non-heterosexual, make one the most frequent targets the rhetoric is one of: "These are your enemy who are trying to destroy your well-being, your safety and your life." If that were actually true, attacking them would make sense.
And even as somebody who acknowledges that, I have a hard time arguing against the people who want to cut off anyone who supports a political party that wants to take away their rights, for example. What's political is personal. But at the least I see a vast difference between refusing to engage with somebody anymore and attacking them. I hate where we've ended up.
I don’t have much to contribute to this topic that hasn’t been said in this thread or another, but i will say that i can’t imagine a more articulate selection of reasonable and rational comments.
I don’t have much to contribute to this topic that hasn’t been said in this thread or another, but i will say that i can’t imagine a more articulate selection of reasonable and rational comments.
If you would put this next to a Reddit thread about a similar subject, it would be the schoolbook example of what the difference is between Tildes and Reddit and exactly the reason why I am very...
If you would put this next to a Reddit thread about a similar subject, it would be the schoolbook example of what the difference is between Tildes and Reddit and exactly the reason why I am very happy about my decision to come here
It’s a shame universities rely so heavily on tuition money. If they did not need to keep enrollment numbers up to make finances work, they could show solidarity for their staff and expel the nosey troublemakers. Assuming it’s an American university, they’ll still be stuck with student debt from the terms they attended, so they can truly get dunked on.
I've worked in higher ed for 20 years and I've always thought the university would be nicer if it weren't for all the students
I've worked in housing for almost a decade and, yeah, I definitely have my moments of "can we send them all home?"
We're not having many of the issues over the current war, in part because we don't have a huge Israeli, Jewish, Palestinian, or Muslim population. It's not zero but we're pretty insulated from direct effects.
I would imagine that intelligent administrators are researching the 60s and trying to find models that work. We haven't had this level of violent controversy since the Vietnam war.
I’d actually be curious as to the demographic makeup of school admins now, because I suspect many of administrators today are the very people who made all the trouble during the Vietnam era.
Depends on what you mean by admin - Student Affairs leadership is mostly Gen X to young boomer with older millennials moving up.
Upper admin like VPs, Presidents and the like, are older Gen X to Boomer, though I don't have much of a sense their college politics, to get that far up you generally have to have a risk adverse mindset - for student safety, budget crunches, and lawsuit CYA alike.
Trustees are almost all boomers and are political appointees. Ymmv.
Faculty gets to say whatever they want* so you can actually know their current politics more easily and yes I'd suspect many more of them to have been those students in the 60s and 70s, especially as fewer of them seem to have resigned during COVID. (Anecdotally only)
In short I don't see a ton of people who were old enough to make a lot of trouble in the Vietnam era doing the bulk of day to day admin and crisis management. Senior leadership could have I suppose.
*Tenure track at least, but more so than staff anyway.
I don't know what can or will end the cycle of violence between Israel and the Palestinians. Northern Ireland is the possible example I can think of and I don't know exactly what worked there.
. There are handmade signs in my neighborhood that say Long Live the Intifadah
I am not and will never justifying Hamas.
You brought up the West Bank, I did not, but whether legal or illegal, settler encroachment and violence are making the West Bank not an ideal model to point to. The pattern of construction and limiting access to roads between villages disrupts attempts at peaceful coexistence. So does Israeli police and army patterns of law enforcement.
At best. At worst they use student activism as a way to play students and faculty against each other to the detriment to faculty’s rights as workers.
On a related note, while of course it is of lower magnitude in like suffering to what's happening in Israel and Palestine currently and in the past, any attacks, whether they be verbal or physical, on another American for their heritage because of the conflict is just unexcusable. Jew or palestinian heritage, first and foremost they are Americans. They almost certainly have zero link to anything that happened.
You can argue to death about who's at fault for what and who's responsible for what in the Levant, but don't bring it to people who's only link is their DNA.
I believe you. In 2022, well before these recent events in Israel and Palestine, Jews were the second most common target of hate crimes in the US.
I'm really not looking forward to seeing the data for 2023.
The real difficulty in discussing the topic, beyond the die-hard side picking, is the inability of people to think about real, rational paths forward. It's always a race through history of each side doing X because of Y because of Z until you've finally reached the extents of recorded human history. In the end, it really really doesn't matter what happened in the 60s, the 40s, or the Roman era. The historical events are interesting to see how things got to their current state, but this insistence on carrying grudges does nothing but continue the conflict. And most of these people have no reason to even carry these grudges, hell many of them learned about it mere weeks ago.
The path to peace means letting grudges go and forgiving the past but the difficulty of getting social crusaders to even acknowledge that concept shows just how far there is to go for a true end to it all.
I'm just so, so happy as an American, secular Jew to be out of college right now. My friend who does Jewish outreach on my old campus says they have Jews who have never shown up before crawling out of the woodwork because so many people they considered their friends are hostile. My workplace Slack is having its own arguments, but being at a place of employment tends to mellow people's willingness to talk about controversial subjects.
It's just not a stress I think I could have handled as a student. Even when someone is asking questions in good faith, I have (very progressive left) Jewish friends talking about their exhaustion trying to explain their feelings to to their progressive friend group. To be on a college campus coming from every direction... At least at work, people have the need to keep their jobs on the brain.
(as a side note, I don't want to play Oppression Olympics here, I'm sure being a Palestinian-American student has its own challenges right now, even if I don't see them)
I can't even imagine what people in America are thinking if it's leading to the aggressive behavior people are reporting. I understand that, for many, this is more personal than it is for me (I have no personal ties to religion or the middle east). But how many Americans actually lived in the middle east? How many Jewish Americans are even plausibly "Jewish enough" (all of the Jews I know use the "Not That Jewish" self-descriptor) to have strong nationalistic beliefs about Israel's need to defend itself?
I get protesting sending money to Israel or Gaza. I understand getting really upset when one group wants to send money to Gaza but you feel that money could support future terror incursions into Israel, or how sending money to Israel will just embolden them to kill more Gazan civilians. But why the fuck are Americans attacking other Americans over this?
Some of it isn't rational, the 70 something landlord that killed a Palestinian American child in Illinois for being Muslim wasn't thinking anything rational in the moment.
Put all of our media has primed us to have an us versus them attitude. With the " them" changing on any given day based on what's going on. But being non-white, non-christian, non-heterosexual, make one the most frequent targets the rhetoric is one of: "These are your enemy who are trying to destroy your well-being, your safety and your life." If that were actually true, attacking them would make sense.
And even as somebody who acknowledges that, I have a hard time arguing against the people who want to cut off anyone who supports a political party that wants to take away their rights, for example. What's political is personal. But at the least I see a vast difference between refusing to engage with somebody anymore and attacking them. I hate where we've ended up.
I don’t have much to contribute to this topic that hasn’t been said in this thread or another, but i will say that i can’t imagine a more articulate selection of reasonable and rational comments.
If you would put this next to a Reddit thread about a similar subject, it would be the schoolbook example of what the difference is between Tildes and Reddit and exactly the reason why I am very happy about my decision to come here