I'm a big Musk fan but his recent gambit with creating a sub for the boys trapped in the cave in Thailand didn't sit well with me at all. It seemed like something thrown together and potentially...
I'm a big Musk fan but his recent gambit with creating a sub for the boys trapped in the cave in Thailand didn't sit well with me at all. It seemed like something thrown together and potentially dangerous as they're talking about deploying it with little time to test in a life-or-death situation. Definitely felt like a PR move to me.
Just having a bit of fun here: I wanted to point out that you might want to consider saying "non-admirer" or "critic" or some other antonym for "fan." As it's written it sounds like you're a fan...
As a non-Musk fan
Just having a bit of fun here:
I wanted to point out that you might want to consider saying "non-admirer" or "critic" or some other antonym for "fan." As it's written it sounds like you're a fan of everyone who doesn't have the last name "Musk" which - even if accurate - made me chuckle. Have a super day!
I think it's an honest attempt to help. Someone else reached out to him to ask him to help, then he and his team got in contact with the Thailand government to ask if they even wanted their help....
I think it's an honest attempt to help. Someone else reached out to him to ask him to help, then he and his team got in contact with the Thailand government to ask if they even wanted their help. He and his team collaborated with the rescuers on scene to find out what they wanted and what would and wouldn't work. They tested the pod in a pool including putting someone in it.
If you were building a submarine to help a world-known crisis, wouldn't you tell people? I don't like the idea that you can't do good things unless you keep it a secret.
If you were building a submarine to help a world-known crisis, wouldn't you tell people? I don't like the idea that you can't do good things unless you keep it a secret.
There's been speculation that he was using this as kind of a real world test to prepare them for manned space flight, which has historically requires quick, effective, and creative engineering...
There's been speculation that he was using this as kind of a real world test to prepare them for manned space flight, which has historically requires quick, effective, and creative engineering when emergencies arise. Also if you look at the specs and video of this thing, it isn't some dinky little tube that will rupture and kill the person inside, it's a solidly engineered sub with redundant air supplies, built from parts designed for his rockets, precisely measured to fit through every section of the cave, and being tested thoroughly. And remember this is just a backup, the primary rescue method won't change, but this way if it gets too risky they'll have another option.
I consider myself a fan, insofar as I see the same problems and (mostly) believe in his ideas for solutions. I don't worship the man (Musketeers, wtf?), but I dream the same dreams. I'm not sure I...
I consider myself a fan, insofar as I see the same problems and (mostly) believe in his ideas for solutions. I don't worship the man (Musketeers, wtf?), but I dream the same dreams.
I'm not sure I agree about his charisma, his public speaking skills are worse than mine, at least. He does however, inspire others to dream again. I was a big dreamer as a child, I'm sure many people were. I dreamed of space travel, and of a crazy future, and sci-fi becoming real and all that. And then I grew up to be a cynical asshole doomed to live on a dying Earth. Nobody cared about space. The existence of Climate Change is still a debated topic. The future was going to be bleak.
And then I hear about this smart billionaire who wanted to build a city on Mars — I think O'Neil Cylinders are a better, and more practical idea — but wow! Fucking MARS. I was going to be an astronaut when I grew up, you know. Maybe my dream isn't dead after all. And what's more, the man is actually developing the means to make it happen. Not personally, obviously. But he's funding it, and giving it direction. He isn't a grifter, or a con-man, he's actually delivering rockets. He's reinvigorating interest in human space travel. People are dreaming again. Or at least, it looks that way to me.
I believe in an extra-planetary future. I believe in electric cars. I believe in solar. I believe in rapid transportation. I believe moving traffic underground is great. I believe the rapid development of Artificial General Intelligence is desirable. I believe direct brain-to-brain communication would be great, and that neurally-interfacing with AGI is key to staying relevant in a world with conscious, artificial, super-human intelligences.
I recognize his faults; I've accepted a long time ago that all my heroes and idols were one kind of sumbitch or another. But I cheer him on, because I think his projects are focusing Research & Development, and public opinion in a worthwhile and desirable direction.
Definitely in the long term building your own tailor made arcologies is the way to go for space habitation, but Mars is probably a necessary first step, since we need to bootstrap some basic off...
I think O'Neil Cylinders are a better, and more practical idea
Definitely in the long term building your own tailor made arcologies is the way to go for space habitation, but Mars is probably a necessary first step, since we need to bootstrap some basic off world industry before that's practical.
My concerns with living on Mars are mostly to do with the effects of low-gravity on the human body. Long-term survival will probably have to incorporate some level of genetic engineering (maybe...
My concerns with living on Mars are mostly to do with the effects of low-gravity on the human body. Long-term survival will probably have to incorporate some level of genetic engineering (maybe just to promote bone density), as I'm not sure that physical exercise alone will be enough. There is the radiation problem as well, and while I'm not sure if SpaceX has come out to say as much, building underground structures would give quite a bit of "free" radiation shielding. Coincidentally, the Boring Company exists.
O'Neil Cylinders probably wont come about until we develop space manufacturing more, and start mining asteroids. But you can spin them at 1G, and the materials science is already there for cylinders within a certain size.
The Moon would probably make a pretty valuable gas station as well.
Oh yeah, Mars is definitely not where you want to be living long term. But the planet is basically made out of steel, air, water, and rocket fuel, and it has sufficient gravity to support...
Oh yeah, Mars is definitely not where you want to be living long term. But the planet is basically made out of steel, air, water, and rocket fuel, and it has sufficient gravity to support preexisting industrial processes. Tack on to that the ease of building an orbital ring for dirt cheap shipping and I could easily see building cylinders in Martian orbit from local materials within a couple decades of setting up your colony.
This is exactly how I feel as well. But evidently the article is referring to a specific kind of followers. I don't go stalking his tweets, when they pop up in my Twitter feed I try and read a...
I consider myself a fan, insofar as I see the same problems and (mostly) believe in his ideas for solutions. I don't worship the man (Musketeers, wtf?), but I dream the same dreams.
This is exactly how I feel as well.
But evidently the article is referring to a specific kind of followers. I don't go stalking his tweets, when they pop up in my Twitter feed I try and read a little more but that's it.
I felt like the article wanted to generalise the "musk's followers" in a bad way by taking the worst and make it appear as "but wait, there is worst!"
Musk definitely is not a saint or a saviour but for sure is being an example of what a dreamer entrepreneur should be. Even if it's just a character.
I feel like being an Elon Musk fan is a lot like being a Rick and Morty fan, I like what the man is doing and keep up to date with his projects, but god do I hate the rest of the fans sometimes....
I feel like being an Elon Musk fan is a lot like being a Rick and Morty fan, I like what the man is doing and keep up to date with his projects, but god do I hate the rest of the fans sometimes. He isn't a literal god, he's made poor choices in the past and will do so again, like a human being. He doesn't always treat his workers fairly and he tends to over-promise especially in terms of time frame. When they defend his every action like they're some kind of evangelical preacher it really makes the rest of us look bad. Y'all would be model citizens of a cult
And then there's the weird subset of people that think Elon Musk is literally worse then Hitler. I don't mean indifference or skepticism, which I don't mind, I mean actual seething hatred. Every action is a desperate PR stunt to save his companies that are 'dying' (for the past 20 years I guess), and his treatment of workers is worse then the actual human rights violations of Jobs, Bezos, or the countless other billionaires who stick to the status quo. Those two always seem to be the major arguments as well, which are both absurd.
I think if both sides actually put in a bit of research we could prevent countless stupid internet arguments.
He may not do everything "right" and may be considered by many to be a "con-man", "pro-business", "snake in human clothing" or whatever other insults you want to throw his way to describe his...
He may not do everything "right" and may be considered by many to be a "con-man", "pro-business", "snake in human clothing" or whatever other insults you want to throw his way to describe his capitalistic mindset... but he is one of the few people in the world pushing for better, cleaner, smarter infrastructure.
In my mind the biggest downfall of the US is that we've let infrastructure go to the wayside. We hardly innovate like we used to. We don't pour money into scientific research (that isn't for the military) like we used to. We don't educate or put a value on STEM like we used to. Musk is someone who's making it popular - making it fun - making it right to do this. He's upsetting the industries he enters into and helps force their hand to adapt to the 21st century as it should have been, and for that, I admire him.
I don't know if I fully agree with your assertion that STEM is undervalued in the US. It's definitely sought after, maybe just not as equally accessible in the K-12 range. But it's not being...
I don't know if I fully agree with your assertion that STEM is undervalued in the US. It's definitely sought after, maybe just not as equally accessible in the K-12 range. But it's not being actively defunded like the humanities. I certainly agree with the shift in distribution of funds/subsidies/etc away from research based initiatives, like NASA, and towards military and commercial applications.
Some of Musk's products are definitely admirable, but they're tempered by a pretty toxicically meritocratic and anti-labor mindset. It would be great if we could have every car owner switch to an affordable electric model and have much of the world running on renewable energy. But at the end of the day, he's still operating in the same system that we live in today and that's why so many of his critics question his motives. Electric cars are lovely, but not everyone can own a car why not work to push forward equitable public transit. Sustainable power grids are wonderful, but not when they're privately run.
While not defunded, they are silently removing stuff like evolution and climate science from many classrooms across the united states. Combine this with simply not hosting science fairs, or...
But it's not being actively defunded like the humanities.
While not defunded, they are silently removing stuff like evolution and climate science from many classrooms across the united states.
Combine this with simply not hosting science fairs, or downplaying them in some areas (not as cool as getting on the peewee football team), not having enough textbooks, no funding for science labs, and plenty of other ways to slowly eliminate science from the classroom (primarily K-12 as you noted) and we're losing out on a lot of education for our children.
And that's not even touching on the absolute bullshit we have on certain news outlets where they try to "refute" what is established science.
Electric cars are lovely, but not everyone can own a car why not work to push forward equitable public transit.
So Musk is the only one who can solve this problem? He doesn't have the authority to build equitable public transit and nor would it make any money for him to do so. He's an entrepreneur and trying to make money while at the same time shifting business to a more sustainable model.
Sure, it's not perfect, but it is something and that's a lot more than most of us can say.
Sustainable power grids are wonderful, but not when they're equitable and privately run.
Why does this not still make them useful? I agree they would be more useful if they were more open, but it's still shifting us towards more sustainable (and hopefully cleaner) energy.
Oh absolutely. The way the public education system is being treated in this country is absolutely abysmal. No support for anything on the K-12 front. He of course is not responsible and shouldn't...
Combine this with simply not hosting science fairs, or downplaying them in some areas (not as cool as getting on the peewee football team), not having enough textbooks, no funding for science labs, and plenty of other ways to slowly eliminate science from the classroom (primarily K-12 as you noted) and we're losing out on a lot of education for our children.
Oh absolutely. The way the public education system is being treated in this country is absolutely abysmal. No support for anything on the K-12 front.
So Musk is the only one who can solve this problem? He doesn't have the authority to build equitable public transit and nor would it make any money for him to do so.
He of course is not responsible and shouldn't be held accountable for the way the world is, but he is seeking solutions that act against known equitable solutions. The guy is trying to convince cities to invest in his Hyperloop solution as a form of public transportation, which can carry far fewer people than current forms of transit and a cost that is the same and likely exceptionally higher. You know what has been proven to work well for equitable transit in Japan, the EU, South America, etc? Trains and buses. You know what would be hamstrung further defunded in order to incorporate his solution? Trains and buses.
I'll give in and say that what he wants to do with electric cars is admirable. As amazing as public transit is, cars are a necessary evil in the US because of our current density, sunk cost in infrastructure, etc. So creating a more sustainable solution to that is great. And it's not like people expect him to give cars away for free, but it's the means he's using to make these cars that's the problem.
Why does this not still make them useful? I agree they would be more useful if they were more open, but it's still shifting us towards more sustainable (and hopefully cleaner) energy.
I mean that's ignoring the history of the hyperloop... he designed it because he was fed up with the shit storm that is the california bullet train. It was developed primarily as a thought process...
The guy is trying to convince cities to invest in his Hyperloop solution as a form of public transportation, which can carry far fewer people than current forms of transit and a cost that is the same and likely exceptionally higher.
I mean that's ignoring the history of the hyperloop... he designed it because he was fed up with the shit storm that is the california bullet train. It was developed primarily as a thought process as a way to develop something smarter/cheaper/better.
Sure he's trying to sell it now, but why not? Maybe a rich city/state/country/government will pay for it as a way to attract tourists. Or maybe they value time enough to pay to reduce the time it takes to travel between specific areas.
I really don't think it's intended to replace trains or buses.
Why not work with the Federal Government or states to turn it into a public utility?
I mean despite his personal beliefs, do you really think the federal government or state government will want to turn this into a public utility?
And even if they did, why should we expect him to be the most altruistic person with the best ideals of humanity taken into account whenever he does anything? The reason I admire him is that he's doing something. That something doesn't have to be the best or most ideal way to do it, so long as it's better than the status quo. Incrementalism, I suppose.
But it is not cheaper and better. I get being frustrated with the progress of something, especially with regional transportation which is a fucking nightmare in the US because of our political...
It was developed primarily as a thought process as a way to develop something smarter/cheaper/better.
But it is not cheaper and better. I get being frustrated with the progress of something, especially with regional transportation which is a fucking nightmare in the US because of our political structure. But the problem isn't with the engineering. The shinkansens in Japan run on time, are absurdly fast, and incredibly comfortable. I don't think I'd be frustrated if he were targeting places like Japan and Europe that already have the infrastructure. Because while it's great now, they'll eventually want an improvement. But he is trying to get this up and running in the US. He is completely ignoring the reality of our public transit system. At best, he is a snake oil salesman trying to make fast cash of a non-workable idea. At worst, he's able to sell a unproven and slightly worse system to states and is able to do it because it looks like something you'd see on Star Trek Earth.
And even if they did, why should we expect him to be the most altruistic person with the best ideals of humanity taken into account whenever he does anything? The reason I admire him is that he's doing something. That something doesn't have to be the best or most ideal way to do it, so long as it's better than the status quo. Incrementalism, I suppose.
Our current government trying to make it into a public utility? No. The energy barons wouldn't let it stand. But yeah, they should want to, energy alternatives are in our best interest.
It'd be one thing if he were one of the research scientists behind these products. I don't expect him to be altruistic because he's an opportunistic capitalist. He is the status-quo. Global warming and a massive economic-power imbalance are the two biggest issues facing the world right now. I'm certain you know that we have done nothing to stop global warming because of that imbalance. It's also not because people are driving the wrong type of car. It's because of people who are put into positions of power oppress change and oppress making the world a livable and more equal place. I don't think you should look up to a man who would only perpetuate that system. Someone who has a proven record of suppressing those below him. He is not doing something to make the world better. He is capitalizing on something that people think will make the world better. Is he the worst? Of course not. But he should not be supported. He's a modern day Edison. Just not as smart.
It is cheaper and better than the shit storm that is the bullet train in California. Please explain how it is not? The proposed cost was less than the current, and it would get passengers from SF...
But it is not cheaper and better.
It is cheaper and better than the shit storm that is the bullet train in California. Please explain how it is not? The proposed cost was less than the current, and it would get passengers from SF to LA faster.
It's also not because people are driving the wrong type of car.
You're absolutely correct, but I will take any action over no action.
He is not doing something to make the world better. He is capitalizing on something that people think will make the world better.
As I've been saying, I don't expect him to be a saint. Not everyone who does good is a good person, and nor are they good in all ways. He can stand to be better in a lot of ways, sure, but progress is progress.
The proposed cost is for a theoretical form of transportation not in production. I'd love to be proven wrong and if his company hits within $1 billion of that estimate I will be impressed. I'm...
It is cheaper and better than the shit storm that is the bullet train in California. Please explain how it is not? The proposed cost was less than the current, and it would get passengers from SF to LA faster.
The proposed cost is for a theoretical form of transportation not in production. I'd love to be proven wrong and if his company hits within $1 billion of that estimate I will be impressed. I'm less skeptical on it being "better".
As I've been saying, I don't expect him to be a saint. Not everyone who does good is a good person, and nor are they good in all ways. He can stand to be better in a lot of ways, sure, but progress is progress.
And I'm probably being unequally harsh on him or you. I don't think he is doing any good for the world. But I do think he is constantly throwing ideas and seeing what stick.
Fair enough point. It's an estimate, and it can be off. However, even if it was off by a large margin, it would still be substantially cheaper than this bullet train mess has become. In fact, a...
The proposed cost
Fair enough point. It's an estimate, and it can be off. However, even if it was off by a large margin, it would still be substantially cheaper than this bullet train mess has become.
In fact, a quick google search found an unaffiliated financial company which has estimated the cost to lay the infrastructure is cheaper than bullet trains. The bulk of the costs (and delays) in California have not been because of the infrastructure - another benefit the hyperloop would have over the bullet train is much (unfortunately not all) of the zoning issues could be sidestepped.
I don't think he is doing any good for the world. But I do think he is constantly throwing ideas and seeing what stick.
Compared to the plenty of businessmen and women out there who are throwing ideas that are terrible for the environment and infrastructure to see what will stick, I'd rather have more Musks.
I'm on the other side of the country so I didn't know this project was in the works. How would hyperloop sidestep zoning issues? The physics behind it are of course different but isn't the...
The bulk of the costs (and delays) in California have not been because of the infrastructure - another benefit the hyperloop would have over the bullet train is much (unfortunately not all) of the zoning issues could be sidestepped.
I'm on the other side of the country so I didn't know this project was in the works. How would hyperloop sidestep zoning issues? The physics behind it are of course different but isn't the infrastructure and principal use identical to high speed rail (e.g, a static line used for mass transit)? I would assume that it's a right-of-way acquisition problem. It's a lot of land to cover and California isn't known for it's cheap property values. That would explain the high cost and the hold-ups. Unless you can hover the line 100 feet in the air you can't subvert ROW acquisition.
Compared to the plenty of businessmen and women out there who are throwing ideas that are terrible for the environment and infrastructure to see what will stick, I'd rather have more Musks.
Absolutely, and I don't think he's a super villain. I just think he is the status quo and I don't want people to become distracted by his cool tech and not be critical of his methods and ideologies. It's just presents an opportunity in which people can closely monitor the rise of someone who could potentially (if his businesses remain stable) accumulate a lot of power and hold him accountable. I don't think you're being soft on him, but a lot of people aren't being critical of his motives/means/ideals.
Essentially yes. If you read the original plans, the goal was to build it along the highway - posts would go through the median divider along major highways and suspend it in the air. Most...
I would assume that it's a right-of-way acquisition problem.
Essentially yes.
Unless you can put hover the line 100 feet in the air you can't subvert ROW acquisition.
If you read the original plans, the goal was to build it along the highway - posts would go through the median divider along major highways and suspend it in the air.
Most highways aren't owned by the city, and are instead owned by the state. This would severely limit the number of governmental entities that need to agree or sign-off on the plans. Some of the biggest delays have been from cities campaigning (read: bribing) to either have the bullet train stop in their city or not go anywhere near their city.
I'm a big Musk fan but his recent gambit with creating a sub for the boys trapped in the cave in Thailand didn't sit well with me at all. It seemed like something thrown together and potentially dangerous as they're talking about deploying it with little time to test in a life-or-death situation. Definitely felt like a PR move to me.
Just having a bit of fun here:
I wanted to point out that you might want to consider saying "non-admirer" or "critic" or some other antonym for "fan." As it's written it sounds like you're a fan of everyone who doesn't have the last name "Musk" which - even if accurate - made me chuckle. Have a super day!
I think it's an honest attempt to help. Someone else reached out to him to ask him to help, then he and his team got in contact with the Thailand government to ask if they even wanted their help. He and his team collaborated with the rescuers on scene to find out what they wanted and what would and wouldn't work. They tested the pod in a pool including putting someone in it.
This whole twitter thread is worth reading for how he got involved and his attitude towards it
Other tweets:
"Some good feedback from cave experts in Thailand. Iterating with them on an escape pod design that might be safe enough to try. Also building an inflatable tube with airlocks. Less likely to work, given tricky contours, but great if it does."
"According to divers who have made the journey, this is capable of maneuvering through all passages"
"Design based on dive team feedback (primarily Stanton): 4 air / oxygen ports front & rear, front ports protected by nosecone. Dual O-ring seal on acrylic rear plate with clear view of occupant head. Leak/buckling proof to 10X cave water pressure."
Simulating maneuvering through a narrow passage
Testing the pod with someone in it
"Thanks, but we’ve not done anything useful yet. It is all other people."
Cool but why tweet about it...
For the same reason it's being reported on.
If you were building a submarine to help a world-known crisis, wouldn't you tell people? I don't like the idea that you can't do good things unless you keep it a secret.
There's been speculation that he was using this as kind of a real world test to prepare them for manned space flight, which has historically requires quick, effective, and creative engineering when emergencies arise. Also if you look at the specs and video of this thing, it isn't some dinky little tube that will rupture and kill the person inside, it's a solidly engineered sub with redundant air supplies, built from parts designed for his rockets, precisely measured to fit through every section of the cave, and being tested thoroughly. And remember this is just a backup, the primary rescue method won't change, but this way if it gets too risky they'll have another option.
If you haven't seen the video of it yet,
https://twitter.com/i/status/1016063173139427329
I consider myself a fan, insofar as I see the same problems and (mostly) believe in his ideas for solutions. I don't worship the man (Musketeers, wtf?), but I dream the same dreams.
I'm not sure I agree about his charisma, his public speaking skills are worse than mine, at least. He does however, inspire others to dream again. I was a big dreamer as a child, I'm sure many people were. I dreamed of space travel, and of a crazy future, and sci-fi becoming real and all that. And then I grew up to be a cynical asshole doomed to live on a dying Earth. Nobody cared about space. The existence of Climate Change is still a debated topic. The future was going to be bleak.
And then I hear about this smart billionaire who wanted to build a city on Mars — I think O'Neil Cylinders are a better, and more practical idea — but wow! Fucking MARS. I was going to be an astronaut when I grew up, you know. Maybe my dream isn't dead after all. And what's more, the man is actually developing the means to make it happen. Not personally, obviously. But he's funding it, and giving it direction. He isn't a grifter, or a con-man, he's actually delivering rockets. He's reinvigorating interest in human space travel. People are dreaming again. Or at least, it looks that way to me.
I believe in an extra-planetary future. I believe in electric cars. I believe in solar. I believe in rapid transportation. I believe moving traffic underground is great. I believe the rapid development of Artificial General Intelligence is desirable. I believe direct brain-to-brain communication would be great, and that neurally-interfacing with AGI is key to staying relevant in a world with conscious, artificial, super-human intelligences.
I recognize his faults; I've accepted a long time ago that all my heroes and idols were one kind of sumbitch or another. But I cheer him on, because I think his projects are focusing Research & Development, and public opinion in a worthwhile and desirable direction.
That hits home, hard.
Definitely in the long term building your own tailor made arcologies is the way to go for space habitation, but Mars is probably a necessary first step, since we need to bootstrap some basic off world industry before that's practical.
My concerns with living on Mars are mostly to do with the effects of low-gravity on the human body. Long-term survival will probably have to incorporate some level of genetic engineering (maybe just to promote bone density), as I'm not sure that physical exercise alone will be enough. There is the radiation problem as well, and while I'm not sure if SpaceX has come out to say as much, building underground structures would give quite a bit of "free" radiation shielding. Coincidentally, the Boring Company exists.
O'Neil Cylinders probably wont come about until we develop space manufacturing more, and start mining asteroids. But you can spin them at 1G, and the materials science is already there for cylinders within a certain size.
The Moon would probably make a pretty valuable gas station as well.
Oh yeah, Mars is definitely not where you want to be living long term. But the planet is basically made out of steel, air, water, and rocket fuel, and it has sufficient gravity to support preexisting industrial processes. Tack on to that the ease of building an orbital ring for dirt cheap shipping and I could easily see building cylinders in Martian orbit from local materials within a couple decades of setting up your colony.
This is exactly how I feel as well.
But evidently the article is referring to a specific kind of followers. I don't go stalking his tweets, when they pop up in my Twitter feed I try and read a little more but that's it.
I felt like the article wanted to generalise the "musk's followers" in a bad way by taking the worst and make it appear as "but wait, there is worst!"
Musk definitely is not a saint or a saviour but for sure is being an example of what a dreamer entrepreneur should be. Even if it's just a character.
I feel like being an Elon Musk fan is a lot like being a Rick and Morty fan, I like what the man is doing and keep up to date with his projects, but god do I hate the rest of the fans sometimes. He isn't a literal god, he's made poor choices in the past and will do so again, like a human being. He doesn't always treat his workers fairly and he tends to over-promise especially in terms of time frame. When they defend his every action like they're some kind of evangelical preacher it really makes the rest of us look bad. Y'all would be model citizens of a cult
And then there's the weird subset of people that think Elon Musk is literally worse then Hitler. I don't mean indifference or skepticism, which I don't mind, I mean actual seething hatred. Every action is a desperate PR stunt to save his companies that are 'dying' (for the past 20 years I guess), and his treatment of workers is worse then the actual human rights violations of Jobs, Bezos, or the countless other billionaires who stick to the status quo. Those two always seem to be the major arguments as well, which are both absurd.
I think if both sides actually put in a bit of research we could prevent countless stupid internet arguments.
He may not do everything "right" and may be considered by many to be a "con-man", "pro-business", "snake in human clothing" or whatever other insults you want to throw his way to describe his capitalistic mindset... but he is one of the few people in the world pushing for better, cleaner, smarter infrastructure.
In my mind the biggest downfall of the US is that we've let infrastructure go to the wayside. We hardly innovate like we used to. We don't pour money into scientific research (that isn't for the military) like we used to. We don't educate or put a value on STEM like we used to. Musk is someone who's making it popular - making it fun - making it right to do this. He's upsetting the industries he enters into and helps force their hand to adapt to the 21st century as it should have been, and for that, I admire him.
I don't know if I fully agree with your assertion that STEM is undervalued in the US. It's definitely sought after, maybe just not as equally accessible in the K-12 range. But it's not being actively defunded like the humanities. I certainly agree with the shift in distribution of funds/subsidies/etc away from research based initiatives, like NASA, and towards military and commercial applications.
Some of Musk's products are definitely admirable, but they're tempered by a pretty toxicically meritocratic and anti-labor mindset. It would be great if we could have every car owner switch to an affordable electric model and have much of the world running on renewable energy. But at the end of the day, he's still operating in the same system that we live in today and that's why so many of his critics question his motives. Electric cars are lovely, but not everyone can own a car why not work to push forward equitable public transit. Sustainable power grids are wonderful, but not when they're privately run.
While not defunded, they are silently removing stuff like evolution and climate science from many classrooms across the united states.
Combine this with simply not hosting science fairs, or downplaying them in some areas (not as cool as getting on the peewee football team), not having enough textbooks, no funding for science labs, and plenty of other ways to slowly eliminate science from the classroom (primarily K-12 as you noted) and we're losing out on a lot of education for our children.
And that's not even touching on the absolute bullshit we have on certain news outlets where they try to "refute" what is established science.
So Musk is the only one who can solve this problem? He doesn't have the authority to build equitable public transit and nor would it make any money for him to do so. He's an entrepreneur and trying to make money while at the same time shifting business to a more sustainable model.
Sure, it's not perfect, but it is something and that's a lot more than most of us can say.
Why does this not still make them useful? I agree they would be more useful if they were more open, but it's still shifting us towards more sustainable (and hopefully cleaner) energy.
Oh absolutely. The way the public education system is being treated in this country is absolutely abysmal. No support for anything on the K-12 front.
He of course is not responsible and shouldn't be held accountable for the way the world is, but he is seeking solutions that act against known equitable solutions. The guy is trying to convince cities to invest in his Hyperloop solution as a form of public transportation, which can carry far fewer people than current forms of transit and a cost that is the same and likely exceptionally higher. You know what has been proven to work well for equitable transit in Japan, the EU, South America, etc? Trains and buses. You know what would be hamstrung further defunded in order to incorporate his solution? Trains and buses.
I'll give in and say that what he wants to do with electric cars is admirable. As amazing as public transit is, cars are a necessary evil in the US because of our current density, sunk cost in infrastructure, etc. So creating a more sustainable solution to that is great. And it's not like people expect him to give cars away for free, but it's the means he's using to make these cars that's the problem.
It is useful, but electricity should not be commoditized. Bad things happen when utilities necessary to function/live are put in the hands of profit driven entities who, like Musk, are against regulation. Why not work with the Federal Government or states to turn it into a public utility? He'd still be disgustingly rich.
I mean that's ignoring the history of the hyperloop... he designed it because he was fed up with the shit storm that is the california bullet train. It was developed primarily as a thought process as a way to develop something smarter/cheaper/better.
Sure he's trying to sell it now, but why not? Maybe a rich city/state/country/government will pay for it as a way to attract tourists. Or maybe they value time enough to pay to reduce the time it takes to travel between specific areas.
I really don't think it's intended to replace trains or buses.
I mean despite his personal beliefs, do you really think the federal government or state government will want to turn this into a public utility?
And even if they did, why should we expect him to be the most altruistic person with the best ideals of humanity taken into account whenever he does anything? The reason I admire him is that he's doing something. That something doesn't have to be the best or most ideal way to do it, so long as it's better than the status quo. Incrementalism, I suppose.
But it is not cheaper and better. I get being frustrated with the progress of something, especially with regional transportation which is a fucking nightmare in the US because of our political structure. But the problem isn't with the engineering. The shinkansens in Japan run on time, are absurdly fast, and incredibly comfortable. I don't think I'd be frustrated if he were targeting places like Japan and Europe that already have the infrastructure. Because while it's great now, they'll eventually want an improvement. But he is trying to get this up and running in the US. He is completely ignoring the reality of our public transit system. At best, he is a snake oil salesman trying to make fast cash of a non-workable idea. At worst, he's able to sell a unproven and slightly worse system to states and is able to do it because it looks like something you'd see on Star Trek Earth.
Our current government trying to make it into a public utility? No. The energy barons wouldn't let it stand. But yeah, they should want to, energy alternatives are in our best interest.
It'd be one thing if he were one of the research scientists behind these products. I don't expect him to be altruistic because he's an opportunistic capitalist. He is the status-quo. Global warming and a massive economic-power imbalance are the two biggest issues facing the world right now. I'm certain you know that we have done nothing to stop global warming because of that imbalance. It's also not because people are driving the wrong type of car. It's because of people who are put into positions of power oppress change and oppress making the world a livable and more equal place. I don't think you should look up to a man who would only perpetuate that system. Someone who has a proven record of suppressing those below him. He is not doing something to make the world better. He is capitalizing on something that people think will make the world better. Is he the worst? Of course not. But he should not be supported. He's a modern day Edison. Just not as smart.
It is cheaper and better than the shit storm that is the bullet train in California. Please explain how it is not? The proposed cost was less than the current, and it would get passengers from SF to LA faster.
You're absolutely correct, but I will take any action over no action.
As I've been saying, I don't expect him to be a saint. Not everyone who does good is a good person, and nor are they good in all ways. He can stand to be better in a lot of ways, sure, but progress is progress.
The proposed cost is for a theoretical form of transportation not in production. I'd love to be proven wrong and if his company hits within $1 billion of that estimate I will be impressed. I'm less skeptical on it being "better".
And I'm probably being unequally harsh on him or you. I don't think he is doing any good for the world. But I do think he is constantly throwing ideas and seeing what stick.
Fair enough point. It's an estimate, and it can be off. However, even if it was off by a large margin, it would still be substantially cheaper than this bullet train mess has become.
In fact, a quick google search found an unaffiliated financial company which has estimated the cost to lay the infrastructure is cheaper than bullet trains. The bulk of the costs (and delays) in California have not been because of the infrastructure - another benefit the hyperloop would have over the bullet train is much (unfortunately not all) of the zoning issues could be sidestepped.
Compared to the plenty of businessmen and women out there who are throwing ideas that are terrible for the environment and infrastructure to see what will stick, I'd rather have more Musks.
I'm on the other side of the country so I didn't know this project was in the works. How would hyperloop sidestep zoning issues? The physics behind it are of course different but isn't the infrastructure and principal use identical to high speed rail (e.g, a static line used for mass transit)? I would assume that it's a right-of-way acquisition problem. It's a lot of land to cover and California isn't known for it's cheap property values. That would explain the high cost and the hold-ups. Unless you can hover the line 100 feet in the air you can't subvert ROW acquisition.
Absolutely, and I don't think he's a super villain. I just think he is the status quo and I don't want people to become distracted by his cool tech and not be critical of his methods and ideologies. It's just presents an opportunity in which people can closely monitor the rise of someone who could potentially (if his businesses remain stable) accumulate a lot of power and hold him accountable. I don't think you're being soft on him, but a lot of people aren't being critical of his motives/means/ideals.
Essentially yes.
If you read the original plans, the goal was to build it along the highway - posts would go through the median divider along major highways and suspend it in the air.
Most highways aren't owned by the city, and are instead owned by the state. This would severely limit the number of governmental entities that need to agree or sign-off on the plans. Some of the biggest delays have been from cities campaigning (read: bribing) to either have the bullet train stop in their city or not go anywhere near their city.
Ah, I see. Using pre-existing lines is a good idea.