26 votes

The election that could break America - What if Trump refuses to concede?

16 comments

  1. [3]
    sjvn
    Link
    "The worst case, however, is not that Trump rejects the election outcome. The worst case is that he uses his power to prevent a decisive outcome against him." This is a disturbing article that...

    "The worst case, however, is not that Trump rejects the election outcome. The worst case is that he uses his power to prevent a decisive outcome against him."
    This is a disturbing article that spells out some "legal" ways that Trump and his allies could overturn the election results. And, it doesn't even take into account a revisit of Bush v. Gore. If the election goes to the Supreme Court, now with almost certainly six conservative judges. we can be all too sure they'll rule in favor of whatever argument Trump comes up with to say he wins.
    The author suggests that we vote in person. That way, if the election's results are overwhelming and immediately on election day in favor of Biden, Trump's supporters can't succeed in their schemes to fix the election. Trump will never concede, but we can stall out their plans to steal the election if it's clear to all but the most fanatical that he's lost.
    I have been extremely careful to avoid the coronavirus. If I have to catch it--which I hope I don't--to avoid my grandkids growing up in a dictatorship, I'll take my chances. I'll be voting early to avoid the crowds, but, virus or no virus, I will be doing it in person.

    18 votes
    1. Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      I'm not going to claim to know the inner thoughts of any of the justices, but I think that's an unfair assumption. If any part of our government is the most removed from the idiocy of political...

      we can be all too sure they'll rule in favor of whatever argument Trump comes up with to say he wins.

      I'm not going to claim to know the inner thoughts of any of the justices, but I think that's an unfair assumption. If any part of our government is the most removed from the idiocy of political gamesmanship, it's the SC. They don't have to think about being reelected, or pander to a specific city, state, or region.

      That doesn't mean I think they're magically somehow perfectly unbiased, but I do think they're more removed from the 2 party idiocy than anyone in the Senate or House.

      12 votes
    2. wycy
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Same here. I've been very careful thus far but I'll wait (masked) for hours in a crowd to vote in person.

      I have been extremely careful to avoid the coronavirus. If I have to catch it--which I hope I don't--to avoid my grandkids growing up in a dictatorship, I'll take my chances. I'll be voting early to avoid the crowds, but, virus or no virus, I will be doing it in person.

      Same here. I've been very careful thus far but I'll wait (masked) for hours in a crowd to vote in person.

      6 votes
  2. kfwyre
    (edited )
    Link
    I've spent a lot of time over the past four years wondering if my thoughts related to Trump have been catastrophizing. Am I only looking at the worst pieces of information available? Am I falling...

    I've spent a lot of time over the past four years wondering if my thoughts related to Trump have been catastrophizing. Am I only looking at the worst pieces of information available? Am I falling victim to a pervasive pessimism?

    I know that doom, gloom, fear, and outrage are the currency of mass media at present, and they exist with very little counterbalance. So, I try to temper that a bit, especially because I know I have a bit of a habit of negative spiraling (as anyone who's seen my teacher rants on here likely knows well).

    But it doesn't feel like I'm catastrophizing anymore. It feels real. Since before he even took office, I was worried that he wouldn't concede a loss, and we now know everything he's willing to do to stay in power.

    Given everything that has happened and is currently happening, I honestly believe we are a little over a month away from the ugliest period in America in recent history, and I say that on the weight of the past seven months. I think some very dark days lie ahead for my country.

    I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

    16 votes
  3. gpl
    Link
    It is terrifying reading this and seeing how many ways Trump could conceivably disrupt a fair election. And also that they all just seem so damn plausible, and not many of them, in and of...

    It is terrifying reading this and seeing how many ways Trump could conceivably disrupt a fair election. And also that they all just seem so damn plausible, and not many of them, in and of themselves, seem brazen enough to provoke public outrage.

    13 votes
  4. JXM
    Link
    Extremely relevant and scary story from CNN: I was speaking with my mother today about this. I asked her if she remembered a time in her 70 years if there was ever even a question about whether or...

    Extremely relevant and scary story from CNN:

    "Well, we're going to have to see what happens," Trump said when asked whether he'd commit to a peaceful transition, one of the cornerstones of American democracy.

    I was speaking with my mother today about this. I asked her if she remembered a time in her 70 years if there was ever even a question about whether or not there would be a peaceful transfer of power after an election. She said she couldn’t remember anything like this ever happening.

    I am legitimately frightened for our democracy.

    11 votes
  5. mrbig
    Link
    That’s insane. It seems to me that US electoral law is adequate as long as the president is honest. This shows a praiseworthy trust in honorable behavior. The problem is that, sadly, not all...

    That’s insane. It seems to me that US electoral law is adequate as long as the president is honest. This shows a praiseworthy trust in honorable behavior. The problem is that, sadly, not all presidents are honorable.

    9 votes
  6. Eabryt
    Link
    This article was how I started my day and boy did it really leave me in a cheery mood. in person early voting in NC starts October 15th. I'll be there on the 17th at 8am when they open my local...

    This article was how I started my day and boy did it really leave me in a cheery mood.

    in person early voting in NC starts October 15th. I'll be there on the 17th at 8am when they open my local polling location to vote in person.

    6 votes
  7. [4]
    Kuromantis
    (edited )
    Link
    This is what I worry about the most. If the police don't care about it's job and the army doesn't care about it's job, what's gonna stop far-right extremists/reactionaries/fascists from just...

    The electoral combat will not confine itself to the courtroom. Local election adjudicators can expect to be named and doxed and pilloried as agents of George Soros or antifa. Aggressive crowds of self-proclaimed ballot guardians will be spoiling to reenact the “Brooks Brothers riot” of the Bush v. Gore Florida recount, when demonstrators paid by the Bush campaign staged a violent protest that physically prevented canvassers from completing a recount in Miami-Dade County.

    Suppose that caravans of Trump supporters, adorned in Second Amendment accessories, converge on big-city polling places on Election Day. They have come, they say, to investigate reports on social media of voter fraud. Counter­protesters arrive, fistfights break out, shots are fired, and voters flee or cannot reach the polls.

    This is what I worry about the most. If the police don't care about it's job and the army doesn't care about it's job, what's gonna stop far-right extremists/reactionaries/fascists from just coming into the scene in the hundreds of thousands, who have already been activated by the George Floyd protests and already been whitewashed or even glorified by a decent chunk of Republican media as seen by Kyle Rittenhouse into polling lines and USPS offices to beat up leftists, minorities, LGBT+ people and mail workers in mass?

    3 votes
    1. [2]
      Eabryt
      Link Parent
      The one thing I will say in defense to this is that our service members swear an oath to the constitution, not any one person, and I believe I've read reports that support for Trump in the...

      the army doesn't care about us

      The one thing I will say in defense to this is that our service members swear an oath to the constitution, not any one person, and I believe I've read reports that support for Trump in the military isn't as high as some people think.

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. Eabryt
          Link Parent
          Aint that the truth :( This country needs some serious fixing.

          Aint that the truth :(

          This country needs some serious fixing.

          3 votes
    2. [2]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. Kuromantis
        Link Parent
        No, sorry for using "us" in my comment. By that I mean "can't put their apparently sympathetic ideology aside and do their job".

        No, sorry for using "us" in my comment. By that I mean "can't put their apparently sympathetic ideology aside and do their job".

  8. [4]
    tomf
    Link
    My prediction is that Trump is going to put up a fight for a week then move everything over, then cash in as much as he can on 'the deep state using fake news to rig the election.' ... unless he...

    My prediction is that Trump is going to put up a fight for a week then move everything over, then cash in as much as he can on 'the deep state using fake news to rig the election.'

    ... unless he wins. In which case he'll fight for recounts to show that he got the popular vote.

    I really think all of this 'I'm not leaving' is just a ploy to keep the rallies, which could be a cash cow, going for another few years.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      moocow1452
      Link Parent
      I think that even if he has that intention going in, this strategy requires him to have some measure of self control that I don't think he has. Heck, if he takes it to the supreme court, is it a...

      I think that even if he has that intention going in, this strategy requires him to have some measure of self control that I don't think he has. Heck, if he takes it to the supreme court, is it a publicity stunt or is he serious about contesting the election while being a sitting president?

      5 votes
      1. knocklessmonster
        Link Parent
        It's a publicity stunt that never got the brakes installed. His whole schtick is basically being a runaway train. It got him elected, it got him popular, at least with his base, and it keeps him...

        if he takes it to the supreme court, is it a publicity stunt or is he serious about contesting the election while being a sitting president?

        It's a publicity stunt that never got the brakes installed. His whole schtick is basically being a runaway train. It got him elected, it got him popular, at least with his base, and it keeps him in control of his base, except for the slowly growing number of dissidents who were out near the edge of it anyway.

        5 votes
      2. tomf
        Link Parent
        I’m in the camp that it was all a publicity stunt to increase his value over J-Lo — then he won. I don’t think he ever really wanted any of it, but refused to back down after the ‘grab her’...

        I’m in the camp that it was all a publicity stunt to increase his value over J-Lo — then he won. I don’t think he ever really wanted any of it, but refused to back down after the ‘grab her’ incident came out.

        He was raised to be a killer and never back down — and all of this is the result of the extreme.

        4 votes