Haven't watched this one because the first movie was all-style-no-substance. Turns out that giving an uninspired love story one of the beefiest CGI budgets known to man will propel it to the top...
Haven't watched this one because the first movie was all-style-no-substance. Turns out that giving an uninspired love story one of the beefiest CGI budgets known to man will propel it to the top of the box office charts.
And given what I've read about the sequel, mainly how Jake treats one of the human characters who lives with the Navi, I'm definitely feeling like James Cameron's writing skills haven't improved over the decade.
I'd say we should allow rooms to celebrate movies that are styles over substances. Movies are just as much audio visual experiences as they are storytelling media.
I'd say we should allow rooms to celebrate movies that are styles over substances. Movies are just as much audio visual experiences as they are storytelling media.
Avatar 2 is extremely good at always having interesting visuals and scenes to take in and think about. So many scenes are like the most polished fantasy nature documentary scenes. And the scenes...
Avatar 2 is extremely good at always having interesting visuals and scenes to take in and think about. So many scenes are like the most polished fantasy nature documentary scenes. And the scenes showing all the human technology for existing on Pandora are cool, even if the plot sets them up as the antagonists.
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but: Maybe it's also because the plot reflects the current political environment ? The first one was released at the end of 2009. It was an optimistic period...
story
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but:
Maybe it's also because the plot reflects the current political environment ?
The first one was released at the end of 2009. It was an optimistic period (at least where the author was): the worst of the economic crisis was behind, the US just got its first black president... so the plot is one of understanding, integration, and standing up to your values (Michelle Rodrigez's character: "I ain't get paid enough for that").
The second one is released in 2022. We're in a highly polarized environment, full of cynicism. So the "us vs them" mentality permeate through the movie. It's a revenge movie, not a "sorry for colonialism" movie (shoutout to Everything is a remix). Everybody yells at each others for stupid reasons, including and especially the good guys.
Spoiler-y observations
The father tries to hyper-masculinize his father-figure role by employing negative military jargon ("I'm the chief here, call me 'sir', not 'dad'. Understood, 'mad dog alpha tango beta'?"). The sea-people ostracize the refugee for petty reasons that relates to appearance**. Neither is seen as problematic and/or are barely solved at the end ***.
The ostracizing is done by teenagers, and I understand kids can be stupid and cruel in their search for identity... but I don't remember them being redeemed by the end of the movie. On a broader level, the protagonist family are accepted by the sea tribe at the end... but the difference between the sea and forest people are so slim to me ! It's like an American being naturalized as a Brit, instead of, I don't know, a Chinese being made a member of a Swahili tribe.
The daddy issues: marine-daddy finally accepts to see that his second son is not crap, but it's not because he realize his style of parenting is terrible but because his elder child dies and the other one saves the day by being rebellious. Many time I feel he could get better result if he just explained that the current situation is crap and life has to be more strict from now on, but that he still loves them. Instead it's just yelling and setting high expectations. Even though he says that the family should stick together, this oftentimes hits as "do it for me", instead of "do it for us".
The "understand and integrate" attitude is cynically reversed, because it is not used by the "heroes", but by the "villain" (which is even more villain than in the first one) as a ploy to oppress more people to get to his target.
The science figure (which also double as a sympathetic inside-man figure) also cynically says "whatever, it pays my immortality research ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" whereas in the first one the science woman was one of the main character and was constantly fighting for her positive values (even if it was somewhat ineffective), and the sympathetic inside-woman was like "fsck it, I'm painting my combat helicopter with blue stripes and will fight against my former co-workers".
Killing the big bad is not a by-product of a "get of our lawn" initiative, but rather a goal in itself (ok, the goal is more "stop trying to kill me", but the solution the protagonist chose is not to cripple, but to kill).
Pacifism is turned into ridicule. The whales are like "Look we practice radical pacifism; we'd rather get slaughtered instead of defending ourselves". So yes, they stand by their values, but their reward is to get slaughtered. Also the plot corners them so that the only viable solution is violence, and also equates violence with killing (can't they just figure out a way to disable the machine ?).
I hope it's a Empire Strike setup where everything is meh at the end of the movie, and the big bad gets a redemption arc in the sequel (he gets saved by his terrible child, after all).
If that’s the reason you saw the first, you should definitely see the new one before it leaves PLF. That being said, the second really improves on every aspect over the first and I don’t feel you...
If that’s the reason you saw the first, you should definitely see the new one before it leaves PLF.
That being said, the second really improves on every aspect over the first and I don’t feel you need to be watching just for the visuals to enjoy it.
@cloud_loud - you seem really into Avatar. Do you have thoughts on it I can read? Right now I'm building an understanding just from the links you're posting.
@cloud_loud - you seem really into Avatar. Do you have thoughts on it I can read? Right now I'm building an understanding just from the links you're posting.
In terms of my own opinions on the movie I talked about it here. I wouldn’t say I’m super into Avatar. I just think it’s nice to have a movie that looks and feels like this, along with Top Gun,...
In terms of my own opinions on the movie I talked about it here.
I wouldn’t say I’m super into Avatar. I just think it’s nice to have a movie that looks and feels like this, along with Top Gun, topping the box office. I was a big fan of the MCU, I’d still say I am a fan just not as big as I was during it’s peak or even it’s early days, but I’ll be the first to admit that they are kind of soulless. And blockbusters like Avatar and Top Gun have a soul, they feel like they were made with a lot of care, with a lot of humanity. Like they were made with the intention of making a good movie rather than building up a universe.
Also, I’ve always thought it was funny that people thought that the sequel to the biggest movie ever made would flop. Because there isn’t a big online fandom for it. It’s an internet vs reality thing that I always find really interesting.
He filmed 2 and 3 back to back and the beginning of 4. If Avatar 2 had flopped or underperformed he wouldn’t have made 4 and 5 and would have retooled 3 as an ending.
He filmed 2 and 3 back to back and the beginning of 4.
If Avatar 2 had flopped or underperformed he wouldn’t have made 4 and 5 and would have retooled 3 as an ending.
Haven't watched this one because the first movie was all-style-no-substance. Turns out that giving an uninspired love story one of the beefiest CGI budgets known to man will propel it to the top of the box office charts.
And given what I've read about the sequel, mainly how Jake treats one of the human characters who lives with the Navi, I'm definitely feeling like James Cameron's writing skills haven't improved over the decade.
I'd say we should allow rooms to celebrate movies that are styles over substances. Movies are just as much audio visual experiences as they are storytelling media.
Avatar 2 is extremely good at always having interesting visuals and scenes to take in and think about. So many scenes are like the most polished fantasy nature documentary scenes. And the scenes showing all the human technology for existing on Pandora are cool, even if the plot sets them up as the antagonists.
The sequel improves on the first by mostly ignoring Sgt. Cardboard and focusing on his much more interesting children.
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but:
Maybe it's also because the plot reflects the current political environment ?
The first one was released at the end of 2009. It was an optimistic period (at least where the author was): the worst of the economic crisis was behind, the US just got its first black president... so the plot is one of understanding, integration, and standing up to your values (Michelle Rodrigez's character: "I ain't get paid enough for that").
The second one is released in 2022. We're in a highly polarized environment, full of cynicism. So the "us vs them" mentality permeate through the movie. It's a revenge movie, not a "sorry for colonialism" movie (shoutout to Everything is a remix). Everybody yells at each others for stupid reasons, including and especially the good guys.
Spoiler-y observations
The father tries to hyper-masculinize his father-figure role by employing negative military jargon ("I'm the chief here, call me 'sir', not 'dad'. Understood, 'mad dog alpha tango beta'?"). The sea-people ostracize the refugee for petty reasons that relates to appearance**. Neither is seen as problematic and/or are barely solved at the end ***.
The daddy issues: marine-daddy finally accepts to see that his second son is not crap, but it's not because he realize his style of parenting is terrible but because his elder child dies and the other one saves the day by being rebellious. Many time I feel he could get better result if he just explained that the current situation is crap and life has to be more strict from now on, but that he still loves them. Instead it's just yelling and setting high expectations. Even though he says that the family should stick together, this oftentimes hits as "do it for me", instead of "do it for us".
The "understand and integrate" attitude is cynically reversed, because it is not used by the "heroes", but by the "villain" (which is even more villain than in the first one) as a ploy to oppress more people to get to his target.
The science figure (which also double as a sympathetic inside-man figure) also cynically says "whatever, it pays my immortality research ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" whereas in the first one the science woman was one of the main character and was constantly fighting for her positive values (even if it was somewhat ineffective), and the sympathetic inside-woman was like "fsck it, I'm painting my combat helicopter with blue stripes and will fight against my former co-workers".
Killing the big bad is not a by-product of a "get of our lawn" initiative, but rather a goal in itself (ok, the goal is more "stop trying to kill me", but the solution the protagonist chose is not to cripple, but to kill).
Pacifism is turned into ridicule. The whales are like "Look we practice radical pacifism; we'd rather get slaughtered instead of defending ourselves". So yes, they stand by their values, but their reward is to get slaughtered. Also the plot corners them so that the only viable solution is violence, and also equates violence with killing (can't they just figure out a way to disable the machine ?).
I hope it's a Empire Strike setup where everything is meh at the end of the movie, and the big bad gets a redemption arc in the sequel (he gets saved by his terrible child, after all).
That's the main reason I watched the first one! Haven't watched the latest one tho.
If that’s the reason you saw the first, you should definitely see the new one before it leaves PLF.
That being said, the second really improves on every aspect over the first and I don’t feel you need to be watching just for the visuals to enjoy it.
@cloud_loud - you seem really into Avatar. Do you have thoughts on it I can read? Right now I'm building an understanding just from the links you're posting.
In terms of my own opinions on the movie I talked about it here.
I wouldn’t say I’m super into Avatar. I just think it’s nice to have a movie that looks and feels like this, along with Top Gun, topping the box office. I was a big fan of the MCU, I’d still say I am a fan just not as big as I was during it’s peak or even it’s early days, but I’ll be the first to admit that they are kind of soulless. And blockbusters like Avatar and Top Gun have a soul, they feel like they were made with a lot of care, with a lot of humanity. Like they were made with the intention of making a good movie rather than building up a universe.
Also, I’ve always thought it was funny that people thought that the sequel to the biggest movie ever made would flop. Because there isn’t a big online fandom for it. It’s an internet vs reality thing that I always find really interesting.
So... It's not true that he's been filming five sequels back-to-back-to-back up to this point?
He filmed 2 and 3 back to back and the beginning of 4.
If Avatar 2 had flopped or underperformed he wouldn’t have made 4 and 5 and would have retooled 3 as an ending.
Roger that. Cheers!