This is not Star Trek universe. This is Marvel wearing the desecrated, skinned corpse of Star Trek. As someone who grew up with ST:TNG and loved how it was used to present a hopeful view of the...
This is not Star Trek universe.
This is Marvel wearing the desecrated, skinned corpse of Star Trek.
As someone who grew up with ST:TNG and loved how it was used to present a hopeful view of the future and examine the societal issues of the day, all while making me fall in love with technology / math / physics / astronomy (basically all of STEM), I am sad and disappointed with what has been done here.
It's probably fine and fun to watch, so long as you just put the whole thing in the headspace of 'this has nothing at all to do with Star Trek, it's just another Marvel franchise'.
I’m sad to say I largely agree with you. Occasionally, I find myself enjoying bits of new Star Trek franchises, but it really feels as though they’ve forgotten the core purpose of TNG, Voyager,...
I’m sad to say I largely agree with you. Occasionally, I find myself enjoying bits of new Star Trek franchises, but it really feels as though they’ve forgotten the core purpose of TNG, Voyager, and DS9. It seems it pushed a lot of us to learn more about STEM and to consider a brighter future for us all. But it even pushed me to read and learn more about our past and more esoteric subjects.
Picard was unironically my childhood hero who I tried to emulate and learn from. I became an avid reader and developed an early fascination with philosophy and history because of how that character inspired me. I had decent enough parents, but they weren’t great role models. I would not be who I am without that fictional character. I’ll never really forgive them for what they did to him (or the bright future of the Federation, for that matter) in the show, Picard.
As someone else here pointed out to me, a lot can fit in that Trek-shaped box. Look at Lower Decks! Besides, please, let's have more Trek. Even not so great Trek can help pave the way for more....
As someone else here pointed out to me, a lot can fit in that Trek-shaped box. Look at Lower Decks!
Besides, please, let's have more Trek. Even not so great Trek can help pave the way for more.
People are allowed to not like things. People are allowed to be disappointed when something they loved no longer has the qualities that made them love it.
People are allowed to not like things. People are allowed to be disappointed when something they loved no longer has the qualities that made them love it.
I haven't watched lower Lower Decks, and I should probably give it a chance. Oh, absolutely. I never want the legacy of Trek to fall by the wayside. Ehrmm.... agree to disagree? For my part, I...
As someone else here pointed out to me, a lot can fit in that Trek-shaped box. Look at Lower Decks!
I haven't watched lower Lower Decks, and I should probably give it a chance.
Besides, please, let's have more Trek.
Oh, absolutely. I never want the legacy of Trek to fall by the wayside.
Even not so great Trek can help pave the way for more.
Ehrmm.... agree to disagree? For my part, I hold Star Trek to a fairly high standard. ST:TNG... what that show did for me during my childhood was immense. I became DEEPLY fascinated with Physics / Electronics / much of STEM because of it. That fascination literally shaped my future. I am typing this in my home office at my computer desk, and behind me is another desk - the electronics workbench I built that resulted from the lifelong fascination with these subjects that was inspired by Star Trek. I am more literate about how the universe works because Trek made me fall in love with understanding the universe.
If you're getting into Lower Decks, don't get put off by the first two episodes. If you find the main cast too immature, know that they grow immensely over the course of the show.
If you're getting into Lower Decks, don't get put off by the first two episodes. If you find the main cast too immature, know that they grow immensely over the course of the show.
Lower decks started by hiring a massively passionate fan who has a hilarious Twitter to be on the project and one episode calls out how messed up modern Trek plots are (literally “oh yeah I should...
Lower decks started by hiring a massively passionate fan who has a hilarious Twitter to be on the project and one episode calls out how messed up modern Trek plots are (literally “oh yeah I should trust the system because Star fleet is utopian”).
This is clearly doing none of that, and in fact the exact opposite
I'm inferring, perhaps incorrectly, that you did not like Deep Space Nine then? Its take, on the fringes of the Federation, was far more nuanced and complicated and far less ideal. Also impressive...
I'm inferring, perhaps incorrectly, that you did not like Deep Space Nine then? Its take, on the fringes of the Federation, was far more nuanced and complicated and far less ideal.
Also impressive that one of the main characters was a terrorist. Makes me think of Andor three decades earlier which is about the making of a terrorist versus the life of a terrorist on the winning side.
I didn't, at the time. It has since become my favorite Trek.
I greatly enjoyed Deep Space Nine. The quality of the writing was incredible. DS9 did take on subject matter of a darker nature - but it did so honestly and seriously, examining issues of...
I'm inferring, perhaps incorrectly, that you did not like Deep Space Nine then?
I greatly enjoyed Deep Space Nine. The quality of the writing was incredible.
Very much agreed. Brooks himself has said he was particularly proud of the Benjamin-Jake parent-son relationship—that a black father-son relationship was written to be so positive and supportive....
Very much agreed.
Brooks himself has said he was particularly proud of the Benjamin-Jake parent-son relationship—that a black father-son relationship was written to be so positive and supportive.
In the Pale Moonlight may be my favorite DS9 episode. Ron Moore thought the quote,Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" was an actual saying. He only later found out it was from Batman (1989).
Also, there was "For the Uniform", in terms of how far Sisko would go. Not as nuanced as the former but I adore it.
I've been thoroughly enjoying re-watching TNG, so I was intrigued to see that a new Star Trek movie was coming out. I watched the first trailer and it looks abysmal. It was hard to recognize as a...
I've been thoroughly enjoying re-watching TNG, so I was intrigued to see that a new Star Trek movie was coming out. I watched the first trailer and it looks abysmal.
It was hard to recognize as a Star Trek movie, in fact it kind of reminded me of a Marvel movie with the cringey banter ("I thought you said she was going to hit me?!"). I'm sure it will make a bunch of money, but none will come from my wallet.
My take on the first trailer was "This looks and sounds like a trailer for Star Trek: Beyond if ST:B was being released in 2024". But, as I admitted elsewhere, I have a giant Constitution...
My take on the first trailer was "This looks and sounds like a trailer for Star Trek: Beyond if ST:B was being released in 2024".
But, as I admitted elsewhere, I have a giant Constitution Refit-shaped pole up my ass. So I'll see myself out now.
I've always said the worst part about being a Star Trek fan/Trekkie/Trekker/whatever are the fans who constantly are "this isn't MY Star Trek" and just shit on everything different. The fact...
I've always said the worst part about being a Star Trek fan/Trekkie/Trekker/whatever are the fans who constantly are "this isn't MY Star Trek" and just shit on everything different. The fact they're still making Star Trek today brings me great joy and the newer series offer something for everyone. If I want heady-parables like "Measure of a Man" , I'll go watch SNW. If I want goofy one off stories like "The Trouble with Tribbles" or "Take Me Out to the Holosuite", then LD is an entire series built on that tone. If I want to watch baffling awful stories like "Move Along Home", then PIC season 2 has me. If I want space politics like "The Undiscovered Country"... well I'm shit out of luck but that's ok because no matter the decade Iman looks amazing as a space shape shifter.
To be clear, does this look great? Not really but it may be fun and there's so much room in the universe for stuff that's fun : LD and PRO proves that. If it sucks, then so be it, move on as we did with with Final Frontier, the Kelvin-verse and Insurrection. Even if it is bad, my hope is it brings new fans into the universe and gives the studios more reason to continue to make Star Trek.
I like that outlook. Except Lower Decks got cancelled this year and the final ever episode airs this week, because Paramount wanted to put more money into this kinda stuff. So, that makes me sad,...
I like that outlook.
Except Lower Decks got cancelled this year and the final ever episode airs this week, because Paramount wanted to put more money into this kinda stuff.
So, that makes me sad, but I'm sure some people even liked Discovery. If that can make someone go 'huh, Star Trek's cool, I'll check some more out', that's a net good.
They likewise cancelled Prodigy, also dear to me like Lower Decks. I loved that Prodigy carried so much of Trek's core idealism forward in such a sincere and innocent way. I found it beautiful.
They likewise cancelled Prodigy, also dear to me like Lower Decks.
I loved that Prodigy carried so much of Trek's core idealism forward in such a sincere and innocent way. I found it beautiful.
All the financial woes and poor business decisions by Paramont have been on display all year . To me, Star Trek is not the cause of this but a victim of this incompetence. But yea, that's how I...
Paramount wanted to put more money into this kinda stuff.
All the financial woes and poor business decisions by Paramont have been on display all year . To me, Star Trek is not the cause of this but a victim of this incompetence.
But yea, that's how I see this, as a potential net good and to help carry the ideas and messages of Star Trek to a wider audience.
I'll freely admit that I had a giant stick up my ass about STIV the first time I saw it, back in the day. Now I love it. I have very much had a No True Scotsman issue, by some measure, with most...
I'll freely admit that I had a giant stick up my ass about STIV the first time I saw it, back in the day. Now I love it. I have very much had a No True Scotsman issue, by some measure, with most Trek that came after "my Trek" (which would be TOS, TMP, and TWOK).
Like John Cleese, I got better.
You're absolutely right. Thank you for the attitude adjustment.
Funny thing is I'm a hater and have a strong undercurrent of nihilism and pessimism. However, most of that I keep to myself and with Star Trek, I'm always reminded of infinite diversity in...
Funny thing is I'm a hater and have a strong undercurrent of nihilism and pessimism. However, most of that I keep to myself and with Star Trek, I'm always reminded of infinite diversity in infinite combinations. The number of posts I see where people express some sort of fear, timidness or like weird internet shame about how they love version X of Trek is too much and honestly, kind of a bummer.
Like I come from an era where "nerd" hobbies were mocked instead of being a pillar of popular culture. And as a someone who loves the series but didn't have anyone to share it with, I never want anyone else to feel that way so yea, you like Nemesis, awesome, Tom Hardy is dope. You Phlox is the best doctor? Cool, that's an opinion and you got faith of the heart. I don't want to shit on someones Star Trek joy because so much of Star Trek is about being as inclusive as possible.
I came from a similar generation. That is, I was hard core into AD&D (when it was AD&D), anime (before it was called "anime", at least in the States), comic books long before the MCU, and sci-fi...
I came from a similar generation. That is, I was hard core into AD&D (when it was AD&D), anime (before it was called "anime", at least in the States), comic books long before the MCU, and sci-fi before it.... oh, nevermind, sci-fi never really became cool (but it got close!).
FWIW, my "Nemesis" call out was due to how Trek idled for a decade (or more?) after Nemesis.
I agree with you in theory, especially as someone who is a fan of both voyager and enterprise, two shows that were rightly derided for not living up to their potential when they aired. The main...
I agree with you in theory, especially as someone who is a fan of both voyager and enterprise, two shows that were rightly derided for not living up to their potential when they aired. The main difference is that I don't think I've ever run into a fan of Discovery or Picard.
Star Trek regularly produces a lot of bad content. In fact, I think the franchise has had far more bad episodes and movies than good ones. That's totally fine and easy to accept. They can't all be winners. The one unforgivable sin for me is completely missing the point and central themes of the show. Optimism, a spirit of cooperation and competence, and assuming good faith from others until otherwise shown.
Discovery and Picard both fail miserably on that point (so do a few of the TNG movies). Both shows aren't even bad by modern television standards. They're totally competent, if a bit forgettable Sci Fi action shows.
I really don't see them gaining a cult following though, because their themes just aren't unique or interesting, like most of the rest of Star Trek is.
It's not about being new. SNW and LD are also both new shows and I think they're mostly great. They hit the themes of Star Trek though.
I think there are a lot of great shows you could do in the Star Trek universe that haven't been explored. What was the federation equivalent of the Marine Corps doing in the dominion war?
What was being a maquis like?
I wouldn't mind seeing those stories told as long as the themes are kept intact, especially when you base a whole show around Starfleet, who are still ostensibly the good guys.
While I completely agree with you on the core principles missing from the later series and maybe the new shows don't make fans the same way the old shows did, but from what I can gather from those...
While I completely agree with you on the core principles missing from the later series and maybe the new shows don't make fans the same way the old shows did, but from what I can gather from those that actually likes those new shows, they seem to provide something else. First they have better representation of all kinds of people (race, sexuality, personality, body type and so forth). Being a default straight white nerdy male, representation has not been a thing I had given any thought at all. I could identify with Data. But I can see from fan discussions, that these thing matter a great deal. In addition, the new shows also acknowledge mental struggles. The classic shows for the most part showed psychological super humans, that still carried on like any other day despite being thrown into a new PTSD life threatening situation every other weak. The newer shows at least acknowledges that trauma and mental burdens exists, and that is also an element I can see resonate with many people. It may be a departure from the more utopian view of the world that we love from the classic Star Trek and I do believe we still need that. But clearly there are people liking the new directions, and they are allowed to be true trekkies just as much as the rest of us.
I think if you compare the previous Star Trek shows against other contemporary media of their time, they'd be far more progressive in comparison to the newer shows. TOS aired an interracial kiss...
I think if you compare the previous Star Trek shows against other contemporary media of their time, they'd be far more progressive in comparison to the newer shows. TOS aired an interracial kiss in the 60s. TNG created an entire race that exists as a critique of capitalism in the early 90s. I do appreciate the diversity of the characters, but in the two seasons of Discovery I watched, the only one who gets any real air time or plot attention is Michael Burnham. Maybe that changes as the show goes on, I just couldn't watch anymore.
Fair point about the mental struggles though. Most of the Star Trek shows did have numerous episodes about mental health issues, but they were always very after school special in their handling of them, and most of them were neatly wrapped up by the end of the episode, with the notable exception of TNGs locutus arc.
I very often wondered why a group of people who watched their friends die on a regular basis, are regularly almost killed themselves, and who endure some of the absolutely most fucked up torture scenarios of all time are still so normal, friendly and well adjusted.
Yes and no. It has been a while since Star Trek really was the frontrunner on things. It has mostly played catch up. Janeway and Sisko were great captains, but Enterprise seemed to go almost in...
Yes and no. It has been a while since Star Trek really was the frontrunner on things. It has mostly played catch up. Janeway and Sisko were great captains, but Enterprise seemed to go almost in reverse in some aspects, not to mention how Seven of Nine was treated. Star Trek also took a pretty long time to acknowledge other sexualities. It was vaguely hinted at at times, but they never fully committed until Discovery. The interracial kiss in the 60s often comes up, but that is also 60 years ago and I think it has been a while since Star Trek has done anything remotely similar.
I grew up on TNG, DS9, and Voyager. I can't say I've watched all of every series, but I've watched most of the episodes. I consider myself a solid Trekkie. I mean, I've spent many, many hours on...
I grew up on TNG, DS9, and Voyager. I can't say I've watched all of every series, but I've watched most of the episodes. I consider myself a solid Trekkie. I mean, I've spent many, many hours on Memory Alpha just learning and reading more about the Trek universe.
But I'm excited that the shows are still continuing. That a new generation is getting to see Trek, even if it's not the same Trek from when I was younger. And honestly? I enjoy some of the new shows. Discovery at least. Picard was uhh...I won't talk about that. But I still watched at least the first season and at some point, I'll watch the other two seasons. Anyway, I'm very excited for Section 31 show because Philippa Georgiou was one of my favorite characters in Discovery.
And you know, I never watched Enterprise. But I somewhat remember people talking shit about Enterprise when it came out. People didn't like the change. Yet these days, seems like people mostly like the series. I'm pretty sure people who watched the original Trek probably said the same stuff about TNG. Personally, I can't watch the original Trek, other than some of the movies; it's too hokey for me. But I still respect it for what it is.
Things change, tastes change. It's OK to not like those things. But man, I'm with you. I get tired of people who shit on anything that changes. I hear it with so many series. Star Wars, Final Fantasy, Halo...name a long running series and people just bitch about it, often without even trying the new stuff. It's so tiring to hear.
Your experience is pretty similar to mine and I'm glad my first encounter with Trek was completely by chance , before fandom forums were easily found. If adolescent me was trying to find Star Trek...
Your experience is pretty similar to mine and I'm glad my first encounter with Trek was completely by chance , before fandom forums were easily found. If adolescent me was trying to find Star Trek today, I think I'd be turned off by the fandom which would be a god damn shame because Star Trek means so much to me.
I ran into Star Trek in the most mundane of ways: there was a sticker of Commander Riker left on the door of my bedroom from the previous habitant, right below the doorknob, perfect for viewing as...
I ran into Star Trek in the most mundane of ways: there was a sticker of Commander Riker left on the door of my bedroom from the previous habitant, right below the doorknob, perfect for viewing as a young child. It was a simple portrait (I think it was this one, actually, I distinctly remember the starry background), but it captivated me and captured my imagination.
Then, when I started watching TNG, I noticed that there was a giant poster of Patrick Stuart at my local library promoting reading, so the Picard > reading association was made, and turned me into a reader in my childhood.
I owe so much to the person that left that sticker behind.
Paramount may have gotten the message that the first trailer landed... poorly. This looks better though I still have much doubt, as a life long Trekkie. 🖖
Paramount may have gotten the message that the first trailer landed... poorly. This looks better though I still have much doubt, as a life long Trekkie. 🖖
I'm not sure what the message was because this still looks awful? It can't possibly look good. This was not a project that started as "what can we make in the star trek universe". It, like many...
I'm not sure what the message was because this still looks awful?
It can't possibly look good. This was not a project that started as "what can we make in the star trek universe". It, like many projects of its (suspected) caliber, started as "we've got an action movie script, what IP can we drape over it"
I too have my doubts but I'll give it ago. I grew up as the only fan of the show so I didn't have anyone to introduce me or guide me into it, I just gave the show a random shot. So always I feel...
I too have my doubts but I'll give it ago. I grew up as the only fan of the show so I didn't have anyone to introduce me or guide me into it, I just gave the show a random shot. So always I feel every series/movie/timeline deserves a chance even if it doesn't remind me of what I love the most about Trek (e.g. SPACE POLITICS. GIMMIE THAT KHITOMER ACCORD NEGOTIATION DIRECTORS CUT). Plus, why not have some fun? Why are fans so annoyed by fun? I mean we had Picard driving around in a goofy ass dune buggy and Kirk holding a giant space dildo.
Are youtube comments on a trailer an indication of anything? I glanced at about 50 and they were all negative. Let's say that the people who are commenting on the video are only die-hard trekkies....
Are youtube comments on a trailer an indication of anything? I glanced at about 50 and they were all negative.
Let's say that the people who are commenting on the video are only die-hard trekkies. They sought out the trailer and cared enough to type something. (aside: Or some are bots. But who would make bots just to criticize a show? Maybe some culture warrior fighting "woke". But the comments I saw didn't mention that).
And let's also say that trekkies won't watch the show, but non-trekkies will and that's a bigger audience. Then why the hell call this show Star Trek?
This is not Star Trek universe.
This is Marvel wearing the desecrated, skinned corpse of Star Trek.
As someone who grew up with ST:TNG and loved how it was used to present a hopeful view of the future and examine the societal issues of the day, all while making me fall in love with technology / math / physics / astronomy (basically all of STEM), I am sad and disappointed with what has been done here.
It's probably fine and fun to watch, so long as you just put the whole thing in the headspace of 'this has nothing at all to do with Star Trek, it's just another Marvel franchise'.
I’m sad to say I largely agree with you. Occasionally, I find myself enjoying bits of new Star Trek franchises, but it really feels as though they’ve forgotten the core purpose of TNG, Voyager, and DS9. It seems it pushed a lot of us to learn more about STEM and to consider a brighter future for us all. But it even pushed me to read and learn more about our past and more esoteric subjects.
Picard was unironically my childhood hero who I tried to emulate and learn from. I became an avid reader and developed an early fascination with philosophy and history because of how that character inspired me. I had decent enough parents, but they weren’t great role models. I would not be who I am without that fictional character. I’ll never really forgive them for what they did to him (or the bright future of the Federation, for that matter) in the show, Picard.
As someone else here pointed out to me, a lot can fit in that Trek-shaped box. Look at Lower Decks!
Besides, please, let's have more Trek. Even not so great Trek can help pave the way for more.
Ok, not Nemesis.
But everything else. Maybe?
People are allowed to not like things. People are allowed to be disappointed when something they loved no longer has the qualities that made them love it.
Oh, certainly. I nonetheless appreciated the reminder. I had my doubts about Lower Decks and Prodigy yet I came to love them both.
I haven't watched lower Lower Decks, and I should probably give it a chance.
Oh, absolutely. I never want the legacy of Trek to fall by the wayside.
Ehrmm.... agree to disagree? For my part, I hold Star Trek to a fairly high standard. ST:TNG... what that show did for me during my childhood was immense. I became DEEPLY fascinated with Physics / Electronics / much of STEM because of it. That fascination literally shaped my future. I am typing this in my home office at my computer desk, and behind me is another desk - the electronics workbench I built that resulted from the lifelong fascination with these subjects that was inspired by Star Trek. I am more literate about how the universe works because Trek made me fall in love with understanding the universe.
If you're getting into Lower Decks, don't get put off by the first two episodes. If you find the main cast too immature, know that they grow immensely over the course of the show.
Thank you for the heads up, I'll withhold judgement past the first few episodes.
Lower decks started by hiring a massively passionate fan who has a hilarious Twitter to be on the project and one episode calls out how messed up modern Trek plots are (literally “oh yeah I should trust the system because Star fleet is utopian”).
This is clearly doing none of that, and in fact the exact opposite
I'm inferring, perhaps incorrectly, that you did not like Deep Space Nine then? Its take, on the fringes of the Federation, was far more nuanced and complicated and far less ideal.
Also impressive that one of the main characters was a terrorist. Makes me think of Andor three decades earlier which is about the making of a terrorist versus the life of a terrorist on the winning side.
I didn't, at the time. It has since become my favorite Trek.
I greatly enjoyed Deep Space Nine. The quality of the writing was incredible.
DS9 did take on subject matter of a darker nature - but it did so honestly and seriously, examining issues of religious extremism (Kai Winn), the bloody legacy of empire building through violent expansionism (Cardassia's annexation, brutal oppression, and later withdrawal from Bajor), and the dark journey of compromising one's personal view of what is right and just for the sake of political and military expediency (Cisco from In The Pale Moonlight).
Deep Space Nine was darker than ST:TNG, yes. But it carried forward the legacy of examining the societal issues that we face.
Deep Space Nine is not hollow entertainment based on extravagantly choreographed fight scenes and lots of explosions.
Deep Space Nine is Star Trek.
Very much agreed.
Brooks himself has said he was particularly proud of the Benjamin-Jake parent-son relationship—that a black father-son relationship was written to be so positive and supportive.
In the Pale Moonlight may be my favorite DS9 episode. Ron Moore thought the quote,Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" was an actual saying. He only later found out it was from Batman (1989).
Also, there was "For the Uniform", in terms of how far Sisko would go. Not as nuanced as the former but I adore it.
"Duet", from S1, still rocks my world.
I've been thoroughly enjoying re-watching TNG, so I was intrigued to see that a new Star Trek movie was coming out. I watched the first trailer and it looks abysmal.
It was hard to recognize as a Star Trek movie, in fact it kind of reminded me of a Marvel movie with the cringey banter ("I thought you said she was going to hit me?!"). I'm sure it will make a bunch of money, but none will come from my wallet.
My take on the first trailer was "This looks and sounds like a trailer for Star Trek: Beyond if ST:B was being released in 2024".
But, as I admitted elsewhere, I have a giant Constitution Refit-shaped pole up my ass. So I'll see myself out now.
I've always said the worst part about being a Star Trek fan/Trekkie/Trekker/whatever are the fans who constantly are "this isn't MY Star Trek" and just shit on everything different. The fact they're still making Star Trek today brings me great joy and the newer series offer something for everyone. If I want heady-parables like "Measure of a Man" , I'll go watch SNW. If I want goofy one off stories like "The Trouble with Tribbles" or "Take Me Out to the Holosuite", then LD is an entire series built on that tone. If I want to watch baffling awful stories like "Move Along Home", then PIC season 2 has me. If I want space politics like "The Undiscovered Country"... well I'm shit out of luck but that's ok because no matter the decade Iman looks amazing as a space shape shifter.
To be clear, does this look great? Not really but it may be fun and there's so much room in the universe for stuff that's fun : LD and PRO proves that. If it sucks, then so be it, move on as we did with with Final Frontier, the Kelvin-verse and Insurrection. Even if it is bad, my hope is it brings new fans into the universe and gives the studios more reason to continue to make Star Trek.
I like that outlook.
Except Lower Decks got cancelled this year and the final ever episode airs this week, because Paramount wanted to put more money into this kinda stuff.
So, that makes me sad, but I'm sure some people even liked Discovery. If that can make someone go 'huh, Star Trek's cool, I'll check some more out', that's a net good.
They likewise cancelled Prodigy, also dear to me like Lower Decks.
I loved that Prodigy carried so much of Trek's core idealism forward in such a sincere and innocent way. I found it beautiful.
All the financial woes and poor business decisions by Paramont have been on display all year . To me, Star Trek is not the cause of this but a victim of this incompetence.
But yea, that's how I see this, as a potential net good and to help carry the ideas and messages of Star Trek to a wider audience.
I'll freely admit that I had a giant stick up my ass about STIV the first time I saw it, back in the day. Now I love it. I have very much had a No True Scotsman issue, by some measure, with most Trek that came after "my Trek" (which would be TOS, TMP, and TWOK).
Like John Cleese, I got better.
You're absolutely right. Thank you for the attitude adjustment.
Funny thing is I'm a hater and have a strong undercurrent of nihilism and pessimism. However, most of that I keep to myself and with Star Trek, I'm always reminded of infinite diversity in infinite combinations. The number of posts I see where people express some sort of fear, timidness or like weird internet shame about how they love version X of Trek is too much and honestly, kind of a bummer.
Like I come from an era where "nerd" hobbies were mocked instead of being a pillar of popular culture. And as a someone who loves the series but didn't have anyone to share it with, I never want anyone else to feel that way so yea, you like Nemesis, awesome, Tom Hardy is dope. You Phlox is the best doctor? Cool, that's an opinion and you got faith of the heart. I don't want to shit on someones Star Trek joy because so much of Star Trek is about being as inclusive as possible.
I came from a similar generation. That is, I was hard core into AD&D (when it was AD&D), anime (before it was called "anime", at least in the States), comic books long before the MCU, and sci-fi before it.... oh, nevermind, sci-fi never really became cool (but it got close!).
FWIW, my "Nemesis" call out was due to how Trek idled for a decade (or more?) after Nemesis.
I agree with you in theory, especially as someone who is a fan of both voyager and enterprise, two shows that were rightly derided for not living up to their potential when they aired. The main difference is that I don't think I've ever run into a fan of Discovery or Picard.
Star Trek regularly produces a lot of bad content. In fact, I think the franchise has had far more bad episodes and movies than good ones. That's totally fine and easy to accept. They can't all be winners. The one unforgivable sin for me is completely missing the point and central themes of the show. Optimism, a spirit of cooperation and competence, and assuming good faith from others until otherwise shown.
Discovery and Picard both fail miserably on that point (so do a few of the TNG movies). Both shows aren't even bad by modern television standards. They're totally competent, if a bit forgettable Sci Fi action shows.
I really don't see them gaining a cult following though, because their themes just aren't unique or interesting, like most of the rest of Star Trek is.
It's not about being new. SNW and LD are also both new shows and I think they're mostly great. They hit the themes of Star Trek though.
I think there are a lot of great shows you could do in the Star Trek universe that haven't been explored. What was the federation equivalent of the Marine Corps doing in the dominion war?
What was being a maquis like?
I wouldn't mind seeing those stories told as long as the themes are kept intact, especially when you base a whole show around Starfleet, who are still ostensibly the good guys.
While I completely agree with you on the core principles missing from the later series and maybe the new shows don't make fans the same way the old shows did, but from what I can gather from those that actually likes those new shows, they seem to provide something else. First they have better representation of all kinds of people (race, sexuality, personality, body type and so forth). Being a default straight white nerdy male, representation has not been a thing I had given any thought at all. I could identify with Data. But I can see from fan discussions, that these thing matter a great deal. In addition, the new shows also acknowledge mental struggles. The classic shows for the most part showed psychological super humans, that still carried on like any other day despite being thrown into a new PTSD life threatening situation every other weak. The newer shows at least acknowledges that trauma and mental burdens exists, and that is also an element I can see resonate with many people. It may be a departure from the more utopian view of the world that we love from the classic Star Trek and I do believe we still need that. But clearly there are people liking the new directions, and they are allowed to be true trekkies just as much as the rest of us.
I think if you compare the previous Star Trek shows against other contemporary media of their time, they'd be far more progressive in comparison to the newer shows. TOS aired an interracial kiss in the 60s. TNG created an entire race that exists as a critique of capitalism in the early 90s. I do appreciate the diversity of the characters, but in the two seasons of Discovery I watched, the only one who gets any real air time or plot attention is Michael Burnham. Maybe that changes as the show goes on, I just couldn't watch anymore.
Fair point about the mental struggles though. Most of the Star Trek shows did have numerous episodes about mental health issues, but they were always very after school special in their handling of them, and most of them were neatly wrapped up by the end of the episode, with the notable exception of TNGs locutus arc.
I very often wondered why a group of people who watched their friends die on a regular basis, are regularly almost killed themselves, and who endure some of the absolutely most fucked up torture scenarios of all time are still so normal, friendly and well adjusted.
Yes and no. It has been a while since Star Trek really was the frontrunner on things. It has mostly played catch up. Janeway and Sisko were great captains, but Enterprise seemed to go almost in reverse in some aspects, not to mention how Seven of Nine was treated. Star Trek also took a pretty long time to acknowledge other sexualities. It was vaguely hinted at at times, but they never fully committed until Discovery. The interracial kiss in the 60s often comes up, but that is also 60 years ago and I think it has been a while since Star Trek has done anything remotely similar.
I grew up on TNG, DS9, and Voyager. I can't say I've watched all of every series, but I've watched most of the episodes. I consider myself a solid Trekkie. I mean, I've spent many, many hours on Memory Alpha just learning and reading more about the Trek universe.
But I'm excited that the shows are still continuing. That a new generation is getting to see Trek, even if it's not the same Trek from when I was younger. And honestly? I enjoy some of the new shows. Discovery at least. Picard was uhh...I won't talk about that. But I still watched at least the first season and at some point, I'll watch the other two seasons. Anyway, I'm very excited for Section 31 show because Philippa Georgiou was one of my favorite characters in Discovery.
And you know, I never watched Enterprise. But I somewhat remember people talking shit about Enterprise when it came out. People didn't like the change. Yet these days, seems like people mostly like the series. I'm pretty sure people who watched the original Trek probably said the same stuff about TNG. Personally, I can't watch the original Trek, other than some of the movies; it's too hokey for me. But I still respect it for what it is.
Things change, tastes change. It's OK to not like those things. But man, I'm with you. I get tired of people who shit on anything that changes. I hear it with so many series. Star Wars, Final Fantasy, Halo...name a long running series and people just bitch about it, often without even trying the new stuff. It's so tiring to hear.
Your experience is pretty similar to mine and I'm glad my first encounter with Trek was completely by chance , before fandom forums were easily found. If adolescent me was trying to find Star Trek today, I think I'd be turned off by the fandom which would be a god damn shame because Star Trek means so much to me.
I ran into Star Trek in the most mundane of ways: there was a sticker of Commander Riker left on the door of my bedroom from the previous habitant, right below the doorknob, perfect for viewing as a young child. It was a simple portrait (I think it was this one, actually, I distinctly remember the starry background), but it captivated me and captured my imagination.
Then, when I started watching TNG, I noticed that there was a giant poster of Patrick Stuart at my local library promoting reading, so the Picard > reading association was made, and turned me into a reader in my childhood.
I owe so much to the person that left that sticker behind.
Paramount may have gotten the message that the first trailer landed... poorly. This looks better though I still have much doubt, as a life long Trekkie. 🖖
I'm not sure what the message was because this still looks awful?
It can't possibly look good. This was not a project that started as "what can we make in the star trek universe". It, like many projects of its (suspected) caliber, started as "we've got an action movie script, what IP can we drape over it"
I too have my doubts but I'll give it ago. I grew up as the only fan of the show so I didn't have anyone to introduce me or guide me into it, I just gave the show a random shot. So always I feel every series/movie/timeline deserves a chance even if it doesn't remind me of what I love the most about Trek (e.g. SPACE POLITICS. GIMMIE THAT KHITOMER ACCORD NEGOTIATION DIRECTORS CUT). Plus, why not have some fun? Why are fans so annoyed by fun? I mean we had Picard driving around in a goofy ass dune buggy and Kirk holding a giant space dildo.
Same
Are youtube comments on a trailer an indication of anything? I glanced at about 50 and they were all negative.
Let's say that the people who are commenting on the video are only die-hard trekkies. They sought out the trailer and cared enough to type something. (aside: Or some are bots. But who would make bots just to criticize a show? Maybe some culture warrior fighting "woke". But the comments I saw didn't mention that).
And let's also say that trekkies won't watch the show, but non-trekkies will and that's a bigger audience. Then why the hell call this show Star Trek?