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Let's chat everything classical music
Hey all,
Brand new Tildes user here. In real life, I work full time as an orchestral and opera conductor. I love all kinds of music (outside of classical, I particularly love musical theater, jazz, and hip hop) but classical music is what I know best. How about let's start a thread about classical music? What do you like? What questions do you have? Do you want to know more about how orchestras, opera theaters, and ballet companies work? Shoot me anything and everything!
And to start, I'd like to share with you this concert recording, the only recording of this amazing and little-known work by composer Alice Mary Smith.
Is there a good way to discover more classical music and keep track of "modern" classical artists? I've always enjoyed listening to classical music ever since I heard Moonlight Sonata as a child playing Resident Evil. However I've never really found myself "discovering" more classic music organically it's also been a case of someone linking me direct, and me saving that one song, or trying to find a single piece I've heard in a movie or game.
Not sure about the keeping track part because I'm very bad at it. The algorithms are also bad. Even after listening to mainly classical music on Spotify for ten years, most of the recommendations for me are still trash.
So, one interesting and seemingly boring way for me to discover and rediscover great pieces of music is actually through the radio. I listen to BBC Radio 3 and my local NPR classical music station a lot. If you find a good host who knows their stuff, they know how to blend the common with the uncommon and tell a story through their programming.
When I'm not on a podcast, I'd rather listen to a radio show than seek out a particular piece of music. This is how I personally discover a lot of new or new-to-me music. And I do this when I drive... or when I drive American Truck Simulator ;)
You should check out In Concert on Sundays on CBC Music! The show has several components including The Revival Hour (music of a previously unknown or forgotten composer) and The Revelation Hour (music of a living composer).
It’s how I found Sami Moussa and Jocelyn Morlock (RIP :( ) and several others that I really enjoy. The host is excellent and his passion for music really shows through.
Try this! It's a list of video game music that has modern classical elements in it.
Not OP and a complete lay person. But I like rummaging through thrift store CD racks: they're super cheap, and some of the older CDs have actually really really good recording quality.
it might be worthwhile to see if your local city's orchestras or chamber or opera groups have free or greatly discounted concerts like this one from Toronto's coc
I find that "discovering" things is easier in "meat space": where I can flip through a cd leaflets, or when there's a physical programme in hand and the musicians talk about their pieces and give some background before they perform.
COC is such a great company! And I concur regarding the CD stuff. Although I don't have a CD player anymore... I did start gaining interest in classical music when I was younger by going to the discount bins of record stores.
Totally offtopic, but I'm assuming your username is a Malazan reference? It's by far my favorite fantasy series. If so, glad to see another fan on here. :)
It is indeed! You'll definitely catch me on the book threads talking about Malazan going forward!
Nice! If you're into Scifi as well, feel free to join us for the Tildes Pop-up Book Club event. We're reading Roadside Picnic, by Arkady and Boris Strugatsky. It's a short book (224 pages) and there are still over 3 weeks before the discussion topic gets posted, so you (and anyone else that wants to join in) should still have plenty of time to read it before then. :)
Apple recently introduced its Classical app specifically tailored to Classical music listeners. I did a month free trial (it’s bundled with their Music subscription if you happen to have one of their devices) and really enjoyed their 9 part podcast-like series “The Story of Classical” as an introduction to classical music for me.
It goes over multiple periods and styles of classical from Baroque to Modern and weaves in commentary/history/instruction on how to listen with a critical ear with music from the period of that particular episode. I’m not a huge fan of their service over-all so I won’t be subscribed past the month trial, but it should be more than enough to get through the mini-series and introduce you to more classical music. The series is well done, but it’s a shame that it isn’t available over podcast for free anywhere or if you don’t own one of their devices.
Hi wbl. I wasn't much of a classical music guy (or even a regular music guy) throughout my childhood. But when I went off to college, I roomed with a talented violinist who introduced me to the genre. We frequently played a game called "guess the violinist" where the goal was, as you may imagine, for my roommate to guess which famous violinist was soloing in a 2-3 minute audio snippet. I pulled from a list of about 100 well-known violinists from across the years, but I purposely hunted for YouTube videos with low view-counts to ensure that my roommate had no familiarity with the audio in question. So it was super difficult. Still, he correctly identified the soloist within the four guess allotment probably 50% of the time. There were some violinists like Mutter and Heifetz that he frequently identified on the first guess, whereas with others like Shlomo Mintz and Mischa Elman, he struggled.
One outcome of playing so much "guess the violinist" is that I ended up hearing a ton of classical music, which got me hooked. I attend a lot of live concerts these days, many of them very cheaply owing to generous student pricing. Maybe I've even seen you conducting! For a recent highlight, I heard a crazy good Bruckner 8 at Carnegie Hall when the Vienna Phil visited NYC this past winter.
So that was a lot about me. I've definitely got some questions for you as well. Do you primarily work with a single orchestra or organization, or do you take guest conducting roles across the country/world? Who's your favorite living violinist? How about your favorite living pianist? What's the best or most memorable classical performance you've witnessed live, either as the conductor or as a member of the audience?
Wow, I don't think I would even be 10% correct if I played that game...
Was that the Bruckner 8 that someone had to step in? I'm too lazy to even Google but I remember hearing about that...
Most of the time, I have one or two affiliations with orchestra(s) and guest conduct when I have time and when people actually ask... Sometimes I only have one or two guest engagements a year. Sometimes I have more than 10. I work mainly in the US but I have conducted in Europe, South America, and East Asia, albeit very rarely. For context, I'm a young-ish conductor in my mid-30s, so I doubt you've seen me, unless you've been to the mostly random small towns I conduct more often. Almost all of my big-name orchestra partners are those who hired me to do education or outreach/family concerts!
I don't think I can give you a "favorite" answer, but I really like Augustin Hadelich, who is definitely among my favorites. Manny Ax, similarly, is among my favorite pianists. I have a couple of very memorable performances, the premiere of Gorecki's Symphony No. 4 by the LPO, seeing Saariaho's L'amour de loin (RIP Saariaho :'( ) at the Met, an amazing Turangalila Symphony by the Chicago Symphony... I'm sure there are more!
What are outreach and family concerts?
Family concerts are mainly easy-to-listen to pops or light classical concerts, mainly for families to bring their younger kids to. They are not particularly "educational" but focus more on generating interest and providing an enjoyable experience for kids and adults. Think shorter pieces, recognizable tunes, etc.
Outreach has many different forms. Some are concerts in neighborhoods that do not have a high music education penetration, some are your usual symphony-in-the-parks, some are concerts with themes to particularly speak to an underrepresented demography, etc.
Yeah, he's a beast. I just don't have the ear for that sort of thing myself (or even close to it).
Fortunately not! Christian Thielemann conducted actually, it was pretty amazing.
Hey, who knows? I've definitely attended concerts in some random small towns!
Hadelich is my favorite as well. I sadly missed a chance to see him perform live back in April; did you know that he's on the Yale music school faculty?
I've got a few other questions for you.
It depends! I do a lot of my programs, but even when I am in charge of programming, I defer to the director of artistic planning (or similar roles) and the orchestral librarian for their advice and input. There are times that I get hired to a readily-programmed show. And as a staff conductor (not the main conductor of an orchestra), most of the educational/family/outreach and similar shows have set programs that sometimes I get more say in but often completely programmed for me. With smaller orchestras, it's often just me.
As for how I program, this is a YUGE topic and definitely something I'm still learning. But my main goal is to tell a story through programming. Sometimes it's through the story of the pieces and the story of the composers, but often times it's also through other elements, through the keys, the styles, the influences, etc. And for a larger arch when a full season is concerned, it's the same. I know this sounds incredibly vague... but take my upcoming summer festival for example, I decided that the musical theme is the relationship between Brahms and Schumann. I don't want to make the whole festival about them but I decided to start with Brahms. Then get to Clara Schuman. Then I feature pieces influenced by Clara and contemporary pieces dedicated to her. Then I take a detour to North America and traced a completely unrelated William Schuman to another New Englander composer Edward MacDowell to his tangentially connection to Robert Schumann, and finally end the festival with a Schumann symphony. The festival is not explicitly about Brahms and Schumann, but for the keenly aware, they will notice. And for those who didn't see the big picture, they will at least get a nice flow, a coherent set of programming that spans continents and centuries :)
I'll get back to the rest of the questions tomorrow lol
Oh that's a super cool profession!
I suspect a lot of us learned some kind of instruments as kids.....I played piano and flute as a kid but the cello is my chosen instrument (that I have neglected)
I was a band kid myself and although it's not technically classical (is it???), I am still very partial to Gustav Holst's first and second and planet suites, Percy grainger's Irish tune from county derry , and stuff like that that we used to play :')
Hey question for you: I play a lot of games and really like the Civilizations series, with music composed by Christopher Tin. Would his music be considered classical? Is it a period or a style or "when played by orchestral instruments"? What about say, rock music played by orchestras, then what is it called?
Were you among the sea of flautists in your band?
I love Civ too! But whenever I play and set in mind I want to do cultural victory or scientific, I ended up just nuking everyone... Christopher Tin! Of course! He has great stuff. He is viewed primarily as a film and video games composer, which is classical-adjacent. More and more, though, the line gets blurred. One cool thing about film and video games is that, the style is a free for all. You can compose in an older style, and as long as you are good, no one will fault you for "not creating something new." The John William-esque style is really informed by many styles of the past, particularly the early-20th century late- or post-romantic style. I'm not a musicologist so I am wary about being out of my depth. But I personally do not think there's a practical need to say "this is not classical music."
As for orchestras playing other types of music, "orchestral music" is always okay, no matter the style or genre. And I particularly appreciate the orchestral pops genre, basically created by American orchestras. My former employer, the Cincinnati Pops, is probably among the most famous in creating and furthering this genre.
ugh, you know it. I was 11 when I joined the high school band as a brand new musician, and I really wished our band teacher had been honest from the beginning and just told me "anything you want but flute" :( he didn't have the heart to tell a kid what to pick, so like an idiot I picked the instrument my friends were already playing. Sigh. I would have been very happy with the timpani or with the trumpet boys at the back. i think even if I had picked oboe it would have been nicer.....
"Flute's nice, but you know which instruments gets an amazing solo in this piece?" kinda thing.
so how did you become a career musician? : ) did your family try to talk you out of it? did you always know you were going to be a conductor? what is your favourite instrument?
Haha, but it's cool to have a popular instrument :)
Yeah, my parents did try a bit. Mainly because they worry about how hard it might be to make a living. And god, for the first few years out of grad school I was kicking myself for not listened to them.
I did not always know that I wanted to become a conductor, but thinking back, I had a fascination for conducting since I was in primary school. I remember trying to mimic the gestures of my choir teacher and find the whole thing so interesting. When I was in high school, I suddenly became much more interested in classical music, and conducting immediately spoke to me, not just because of my fascination, but as a pianist, I wished I could play in an orchestra more often, and conducting seemed to be the obvious route. (Not a lot of orchestral pieces require a pianist.)
I love everything in the tenor-ish voice. I love tenor singing. I love the viola and cello. I love the horn. Somehow that very human, and somewhat heroic, tone, speaks to me a lot!
It might be called Classical Crossover.
How did you get into music to begin with (beginning in a literal sense)?
Do you mean me or the hypothetical "you"?
For me, I was your typical Asian kid, taking piano lessons before I learned how to write my name. (Not exaggerating.) Never hated it but also never liked it... until I got to high school when playing music gradually became cool again. I spend a couple years playing in Christian rock bands which I cringe to think about, but even that helped me grow as a musician a lot. I remember a couple friends and I decided to go to a symphony concert. It was a semi-hip thing in our minds and it felt very grown-up-like. I purchased a couple of CDs to prep myself on the music and I completely fell in love with those pieces. They were Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and Mussorgsky/Ravel Pictures at an Exhibition. These two really got me hooked, and then I started saving up my lunch money to get CDs. The more I listen the more I love, and eventually decided that I want to pursue this as a career. And I believe I am one of the very lucky ones to be able to make a living by performing :)
As for the hypothetical "you," I think it's all about finding the things you like. Branch out from there, and continue to find music that speaks to you, classical or otherwise. Music is such an art about communication. Ideas, feelings, emotions, all without words (mostly). So one has to be on the same page of the receiving end to make sense of it. Sometimes a particular style speak more to people than others. And sometimes tastes change as well!
Lately I've been very fond of Satie, particularly when filtered through his more unorthodox or even "mystic" interpreters like de Leeuw. He could go even slower and I'd be perfectly fine with that. Something incredibly special happens to the atmosphere when that guy's recordings are playing. It's hard to tell whether de Leeuw has a deep understanding of him or is totally ignoring his intentions. Either way, when I play him myself, it isn't the same.
I once had the great pleasure(?) of being a page-turner for a recording of some very long works by Morton Feldman, but I never got to tackle Satie's "Vexations." It seems there's at least one guy who's sat down and recorded the whole thing in one go, which must have required an incredible frame of mind. I can't imagine it.
I have to admit, I have never heard of Satie's Vexations. I need to get to know more of his works. Funny enough, when I was vacationing in Paris last year, I accidentally stumbled upon Satie's former apartment and thought to myself I need to look into him and his works more. Never got around to it. Good reminder. De Leeuw is another one who is so interesting in his own right. I know he is known for his Satie recordings, but he has many interesting ideas on other rep. I remember stumbling upon his Pierrot a long time ago.
I don't know that much about what conductors do. What would you say are the most enjoyable and most frustrating things about your work?
Most enjoyable
Working with amazing musicians, having that easy communication that just makes sense. And everything about sharing music, whether it's conducting a concert, speaking with people about music, finding ways to help people learn how to listen and appreciate, chatting with students, etc.
Most frustrating
Not having enough artistic support to carry out productions to their fullest potential. Having to sacrifice rehearsal time, bad acoustics in rehearsal spaces, no budget to hire high quality audio engineers, etc.
Although I am afraid to talk "classical" music with a professional, I must say there are some albums I really enjoy and admire. As you know, "classical music" is a bit of a misnomer because there is the Classical Period in music as well as Opera, Romanticism, Baroque Period, Modern Classical, and everything else in between and beyond. It really can be quite intimidating! What resonates most strongly with me is Modern Classical, especially when it is blended with folk, so let me just a couple albums:
Night in Galicia by Vladimir Martynov Владимир Мартынов / Opus Posth Ensemble Dmitry Pokrovsky Folk Ensemble
(15 March 2000)
Avant-Folk, Modern Classical, Slavic Folk Music, Choral, Polyphonic Chant, White Voice, A cappella
I also greatly admire a Polish trio called Bastarda. They have seven studio albums, some of which are collaborations, and they explore Chamber Music, Modern Classical, and Ashkenazi Music. Here is one such album:
Kołowrót by Bastarda & Chór Uniwersytetu SWPS
(2021)
Modern Classical, Chamber Music, Choral, Polish Folk Music
April is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land
But it's not all avant-garde vocals. The cello establishes itself like the deep arms of the Earth, embracing the entire soundscape, cradling the dual clarinets and allowing them space to rise in punctuated spurts, like shoots.
I hope you guys are able to give these two albums a listen. If you're interesting in exploring more, check out this list.
See, I am afraid to speak with actual connoisseurs because it'll reveal how little I know. Or how vast the classical music universe is! I remember meeting an important donor of an orchestra once. He started by asking me "what do you think of the Martinu String Trios" and I had to admit to him, I do not know them at all. He was surprised. To him, an avid records collector, I, a professional, should without a doubt know about everything he has...
Anyway, back to your recommendations, definitely adding to my to-listen list. How interesting works these are. How did you come across these works? Not to mention soooo new?
(Also, I appreciate the random Mozarts in the list...)
Music appreciation, discovery, and curation is my only hobby. Literally. I have no social life. ;)
Have you thought about hosting a radio show?! You sound exactly like who I'd like to listen to.
You're not the first person who's wondered why I don't have a podcast. I just... I don't like talking. I am way more perspicuous in text than in speech.
Welcome!
Thanks for the piece! When did you make this recording?
Not to blast you with questions but I'm super curious what you think:
To be completely honest, I think it's just the connotation, the vibe, and the historic reach of the different styles. I really do think that, given the chance, jazz people will appreciate chamber music and vice versa. I'm actually going to test out this theory with a program next year: Baroque and jazz. It'll be the theme of the gala of one of the orchestras I work with. I'm very curious to get feedback and see how people react.
I don't know, and I don't know if that's even my goal, but I definitely do hope to reach more audience, and coming from classical music, I really think the dedicated jazz audience is of significant interest.
There are so many types of orchestral pops, but I'd say for my pops shows, I treat them very similarly to my traditional classical shows. I want to get the right style, have a genuine take on the music, and convincingly put them together in a cohesive production. So when jazz and/or big band style is called for, I definitely want to be as authentic as I can.
I perform very infrequently on the piano nowadays and it's nowhere at the level of my conducting, so it's difficult to answer. Although I can say that, while I started out as a pianist, nowadays, the way I think, the way I analyze, the way I decide on how I perform, my conducting experience might have influenced my piano playing a lot more than vice versa.
Not sure if it's obscure enough, but Luis Bacalov's Misa Tango. Loved that piece!
I keep trying to convince people of this! I think that figured bass and chord charts are almost exactly the same thing, and it boggles my mind that no one seems to teach continuo at the same time as comping.
I performed with someone last year who told me they were wondering if jazz improv might be a direct descendant of Baroque improv. The Atlantic slave trade was active all through the 17th and 18th centuries so it's not a huge stretch that the European tradition might have mixed in directly. Though I never looked into it more.
Obscure enough for me, thanks for the recommendation!
Never heard of Alice Mary Smith before but I just listened to the Masque of Pandora Overture that you linked, it’s great! I wish it was on Spotify, and that more of her stuff was recorded. Side note: The video says it’ll only be up till 6/8/23 but I’m watching it on 6/10/23, lol.
Yeah that’s me. I’m going to leave it up for a couple more days. Good music is meant to be listened to! Hopefully I can get it recorded. Hopefully someone with money will fund it haha!
I'm a patron of the arts! (I pay for my kid's violin lessons.) ;)
Haha but seriously, thanks for supporting the arts community by letting your child/ren to be part of it :)
just found this radio i'm obsessed with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4khIPP--FDU
piano music 24/7 , extremely relaxing and perfect for studying
i used to listen to the lofi radio before but this is so much better for me