19
votes
Modern hardcore
What's happening in the hardcore scene in 2023?
I typically pose these sorts of questions to Reddit, but Tildes hasn't failed me on anything music related. We had an incredibly successful prog metal thread a couple of weeks before, and I'd love to have one on hardcore punk.
I have general questions about hardcore like:
- Who are the biggest names in hardcore of all time that still tour and write music today?
- Who are the biggest hardcore bands that have started in the last decade or less?
- In 2023, is it even useful to talk about hardcore as a distinct genre separate from metalcore anymore?
- Does any metalcore meaningfully exist in the hardcore scene? Is there any metalcore scene that embraces the punk ethic of hardcore?
- If a through-and-through hardcore band uses elements of metal in their music, are they now metalcore? Are you no longer punk if you use breakdowns?
- What should people know about the hardcore punk scene?
I don't know enough to know which of these questions are stupid or cringe, or what the best questions to ask are. Feel free to answer questions, ask questions, or share your knowledge of the scene with curious minds.
As always, I greatly appreciate your feedback!
This is a fun question because the genres are blending so nicely. We’re almost getting a form of post post hardcore these days. You’ve got bands like ‘68 and Thrice maintaining the old hardcore roots. Bands like hail the sun or LSDUNES pushing more hardcore/swancore and turnstile pushing an almost proggy sound. It’s a good time to be a fan of this music imo.
I don’t have much to add here, but any time I see Thrice come up in convo I feel compelled to speak up :) they’ve consistently been my favorite band since vheissu (2005), yet their sound has changed so much over that time. For anyone who isn’t familiar with their catalog but digs any kind of post hardcore/alt rock, check them out. Cannot go wrong
Oh man, I always love to see Thrice mentioned, I've been listening since Artist in the Ambulance and they're still a favorite! I went to see them in Atlanta when they were on the 20th anniversary tour for that album and that show was so good.
Hello fellow thrice atlien
Hi! I'm actually over in Alabama but we tend to get skipped on tours so we usually have to drive over ya'll's way if we want to see a show.
Been a fan for so long (probably identity crisis, honestly), and they’re among the few bands that have consistently executed at such a high level.
I think the only other bands for me are Jimmy Eat World, King Gizzard and ETID.
Is there any appreciable difference between post-hardcore and metalcore in your opinion? Is metalcore a subset of the former? And is there even a meaningful punk scene anymore?
Yes definitely! There is a distinct lightness in post hardcore that distinguishes it from metalcore for me. Bands like turnstile, idles and fontaines d.c seem to be the new punk that has caught my ear.
Is Hail the Sun still active?
edit: just saw they released an album this year. Don't know how I missed it!
Came out this past Friday!
I'm not a big listener to straight up Hardcore, but I do sometimes dabble in *core genres. Even so I was seeing a ton of buzz around the track(s) that Knocked Loose put out earlier this year. And after listening to them I can definitely see why, they go fucking hard.
Disclaimer: If you held a gun to my head I'm not sure I could explain the difference between Hardcore and Metalcore except that Metalcore has metal influences and (apparently?) Hardcore doesn't? So Knocked Loose might be more Metalcore than straight up Hardcore, but they definitely sound waaaaay more punk influenced than the Metalcore bands that I listened to as a teenager.
I consider Knocked Loose (love them) 'metallic hardcore' because of the term 'metalcore' meaning wildly different sounds at different times (in the early 2000s, metalcore was like As I Lay Dying type stuff, now it's vastly different- more djent-leaning, a lot of it has singing now, etc.). If I say I like metalcore, I always have to specify what kind, because the term is kinda ruined.
Knocked Loose is very hardcore-leaning but has some metal elements- and most of the time I hear bands with that sound, I've seen it associated with the term metallic hardcore, so that's what's stuck for me. Some people think that is some "elitist term" to avoid calling things metalcore, but I don't really see it that way.
That said, being super accurate on genres doesn't entire matter that much, because despite some seeming pretty clear cut, there are constant arguments over where those lines are drawn, and I often think that becomes a distraction
Oh yeah, I definitely think getting really elitist about genre is stupid. I kind enjoy talking about musical genres just because I think it's interesting to see what ways you can classify bands/songs that are similar to each other. It's more of a fun mental exercise than a prescriptive thing for me.
Not trying to be "that guy" but they were not the only hardcore band there! Soul Glo also played Coachella this year which I was really excited about! They are amazing. They are a little bit decisive to some people though. It was really sad seeing the hateful comments they were getting for their set.
I am by no means a hardcore enthusiast nor do I have a deep understanding of the scene : I can only speak to my recent exposure to it through bands like Mil-Spec and my proximity to DC/Baltimore hardcore scene through labels like Flatspot Records and of course Dischord. I guess this is more of a "first impressions from a newcomer" kinda of response.
While I don't have a huge history with hardcore, I have been in adjacent scenes and one thing I can appreciate a lot about what I've seen is how the scene appears to be becoming more inclusive, which when you think about it, should have always been the case given the importance of Bad Brains. Now I'm seeing bands like Scowl, Zulu, Soul Glo and Speed. While this type of representation may have always been around (I honestly don't know), I definitely appreciate the visibility of these bands and seeing them sell out medium sized venues.
Going to take a stab at this but I'm going to say Turnstile. How many hardcore bands were featured in Taco Bell commercials and are making waves on the festival scene? Though I'd be curious to see if hardcore enthusiasts would argue that Glow On is not a hardcore album, but an non-hardcore album made by a hardcore band. Regardless, love Turnstile's old and new albums and the fact they decided to release a jazzy remix w/ Badbadnotgood.
As another newcomer to the hardcore scene near the Baltimore/ DC area I can second this! I love Soul Glo. Can't wait to see them later this month with Zulu. They got me into Hardcore last year.
I'm definitely very fortunate to live right outside of Baltimore. We have a great Hardcore scene. Bands like Tripper, Doubt, and Consumer Culture are some of my favorites from the area. We have a ton of good venues between Holy Frijoles, Zika Farm, and Fort Armistead.
I definitely feel like Hardcore is getting more popular. Turnstile is doing well and Soul Glo and Knocked Loose were at Coachella last year. I really hope that they continue to be successful. It's definitely a good time to be a fan.
The last thing I would like to say to anyone who wants to get into Hardcore/ wants to know more is just go for it! The community is really cool and accepting. It didn't really click until I went to my first show but now I'm hooked.
I can't pretend to have the kind of objective lens on the genre that your question is asking for, but I'm going to give my opinion anyways.
As for big established names, I'd put down Rise Against and Hot Water Music; at least that's the space of hardcore that I'm familiar with. Rise Against in particular is kind of a big deal in my book, and probably who got me into hardcore to begin with. They're quite far away from metalcore, I'd say, so that kind of answers your question about distinctions from metalcore. But then there's also Boysetsfire, which is probably closest to metalcore among the bands I listen to. In fact, poking around metalcore and how it sounds (because I wasn't quite sure about that genre until 5 minutes ago), Boysetsfire is probably the closest to an "interpolation" of the two genres as I can give you. But that's probably more to do with me hanging around mostly in melodic hardcore. Though I really like the compromise that ends up in, a good mix of the "rougher" and high-energy parts of metal mixed into my melodic hardcore.
I'm fairly indifferent about drawing clear boundaries around genres. I'm thinking of those terms as descriptive rather than prescriptive, so unless your politics is "racism" or your musical style is "country", I have no strong opinions there.
Metalcore and hardcore have just collided and become one practically, a band will make a hardcore track with a metalcore breakdown, or have them be back to back.
But, some that are going strong lately are Turnstile (insanely strong), Incendiary, and I would even consider the Architects new album to have some hardcore influence.
I'll list a few more that have been heavy on my rotation the last few years, since I don't see why not at this point for anyone else interested:
Drain is one of my favorites for the past two years. Their new album is great (linked is their first major album from... last year?)
Sunami is equally as great imo especially if you want that more punk influence.
Vein.fm is likely the hardest one I'll list on here.
Plus, almost all of these have new albums out this year, or last.
Edit: I am going through my playlists, here are some other ones with newer albums out:, it's really hard to separate all the new hardcore, metalcore, and screamo(core?) especially when it comes to new bands like SeeYouSpaceCowboy which are essentially hardpunkmetalscreamocore.
But, the following should be closer to what you are taking about:
Fixation - The Secrets We Keep
偏執症者 (Paranoid) - Destroy Future Less System - Japanese band, great classic punk sound.
Might Makes Right - Bombs Not Ballots (2017) - definitely too close to metalcore or power violence here.
Gel - Violent Closure
Thinking about it (and listening to it) I think the primary thing that seperates metalcore and hardcore these days, is that metalcore has transitioned to being a lot more melodic and full of ballad-type vocals.
I never got too deep into post-hardcore, but have always enjoyed several bands in the genre (eg At The Drive In, La Dispute)
La Dispute’s Panorama from a couple years ago is actually one of my favorite albums. I’m into post-rock, and I think it’s a great fusion of the two genres - going as far as to say I think the first three songs are second only to Explosions in the Sky’s “The Earth Is Not A Cold Dead Place” in terms of best first three tracks on an album ever
Jimmying my way in here ask for some post-hardcore recommendations that also fuse with post-rock like Panorama does. And any kind of more intricate stuff, like the changing time signature of La Dispute’s “The Last Lost Continent” from their first album
(And any other post-rock fusions really, love Holy Fawn and their fusion of post-rock + shoegaze + metal)
I was going to chime in a recommend some of Thrice's most recent albums, because I felt like they've incorporated some post-rock elements, but I decided to google it first and, apparently, I don't know what post-rock is, lol.
So I guess now I'm curious: what makes a band post-rock and what would you recommend as good examples of the genre?
Just a note, I saw Holy Fawn opening for Thrice earlier this year and really enjoyed them!
So, I want to be clear I am not an expert on this and that I'll be answering this question about what the genre means to me rather than an academia answer.
Which, aside: I also think a lot of genre stuff is silly, with location and time period playing import roles into what "genre" a band fits in. Eg: I do not consider Nirvana grunge, I consider them alt rock (and dabbling in punk and grunge) - but that they get the grunge label because they came from the PNW during the early 90s. But I think they're significantly more comparable to bands like The Pixies and Sonic Youth than they are to bands like Soundgarden and Alice in Chains (who have a significantly more metal sound...and one of the main points of grunge is the metal sound)
So if the above sounds silly, the rest of this might sound silly. But to me there are two things post-rock means - one is on the macro level, and one is on the micro level.
Starting with the macro level, I consider post-rock to essentially be "experimental alternative rock" - or alternative rock that does not follow normal alternative rock conventions. Some of this are the very early example's of post-rock: Slint's Spiderland and Godspeed You! Black Emperor's F#A#∞
However, that's an INCREDIBLY broad genre and would make things like math-rock (experimental alt-rock from a technical aspect), shoegaze (experimental alt-rock from an effects aspect), and slowcore (experimental alt-rock from a BPM aspect) as subgenres of post-rock - which I do consider them to be, because of that broad macro level, even though they are far from the micro level.
That more micro level of the genre came with Explosions in the Sky. Their brand of post-rock is focused on creating ethereal soundscapes that crash into a massive crescendo. The soundscape helps create an emotional attachment that builds and builds until the climax - appreciating the journey to see just what the destination will be. Their album The Earth Is Not a Cold Dead Place is the best post-rock album IMO, and is #2 in my all-time list of albums.
So this is a significantly more defined genre - they're experimenting with the soundscape aspect of alt-rock.
(They also did start with a more alternative sound on their first record How Strange, Innocence and, while a lot of people don't like it do to the change and sound, I actually consider it their second best album since the rest can feel a bit same-sy)
They became basically "the" post-rock band, and their sound basically then has defined the micro-level post-rock genre that I think most people mean by post-rock when they say it now. This spawned a lot of bands experimenting with that style like This Will Destroy You and Caspian. Also shout out to Maybeshewill, love this track.
So, for example, La Dispute's “The Last Lost Continent” would be a math-rock influenced track - with how much of technical aspect they experimented with. However, the two "Fulton Street" tracks from Panorama would be post-rock influenced - they're trying to draw emotions from the fragile soundscape they are creating, building up to massive crescendos that allow for that full release of the emotions.
Again, this could all be bullshit, I'm no expert. But that's what the genre is to me.
I've been meaning to check out Thrice for a long time, actually. So actually thank you because somehow I have yet to!
The saddest part is, I actually saw Holy Fawn open for Thrice a few months back as well (in Denver) - but I had other plans and had to dip after Holy Fawn, so didn't see anyone else perform. And yet still somehow haven't actually checked them out lol. So I know what I'll be doing with my night :)
Hey, wow thanks for this answer! I'm gonna bookmark this comment so I can come back and give these a listen when I have a little more time, but I really appreciate you taking the time to answer.
Glad to help :)
I really wish I could get into Panorama -- Rooms of the House is quite probably my favorite album of all time, but the mix on Panorama is so bad. I assume it's intentional -- not privileging the vocals over the instruments, or being quietly restrained in pain or something along those lines -- but it just doesn't click for me. I want to be able to hear the lyrics -- the lyrics are why Rooms of the House works as well as it does. Hoping their next album moves away from that technique a bit.
Yeah you're definitely not alone on that. Not just with La Dispute fans - my girlfriend at the time had never listened to La Dispute, and when I played her a couple tracks her complaint was about the vocal mix.
It hits me so good though
It's got some good tracks on it still. Rhodonite and Grief, Anxiety Panorama, View From our Bedroom Window (though this one gets a bit mumbly) and Footsteps at the Pond are all great. I saw them live not long after this album came out and the songs all translate well in that environment, but ugh, the album mix.
Lately for hardcore I've been enjoying God's Hate, Drain, Sunami, Skourge, and Knocked Loose.
I grew up listening to bands like Good Riddance and Sick Of It All. Are there any young bands that still make this kind of music? I have no interest in metalcore.